quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Stolen from another site:

Study done by the University of Missouri:

Didn't know the proper time to bring this to the board but a few years back there was a very intensive study done on postional Wins Against Replacement Value in the NFL over a 3 year period

Obviously the QB is the highest WAR value but second is you guessed it Interior Line.....what nope you are Wrong!

QB -5.19
WR -4.75
TE/FB -4.27
OT -3.58
Interior OL -.24
RB +.14

This study shows basically zero value in IOL so all you clamoring for IOL over WR in this past draft you may want to think again.

So the lower the number, the higher the WAR rating – the more important the position? Sorry, I'm not very good with numbers.

If it shows TE/FBs having a 'higher WAR rating' than OTs, I suggest the UM needs to regroup. Nobody would agree with that.

That said, nobody is going to dispute that IOL is lower on the offensive totem pole than QB, WR, OT, TE ... not sure about RB which is not currently fashionable. IOL probably only ranks higher than FB ... we all can agree on that.

Until you have to pass protect your QB or run the ball.

The numbers do not cover variables like the current strengths and weaknesses of the 2020 draft ... or ... what is the current state of a team's roster ... or ... what is the cap / player contract situation for a specific team moving forward ... and how does those variables influence its 2020 draft decisions ... etc. etc.

Next time I build a test tube football team and pour it into a petri dish with a controlled environment, I promise to reconsider.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Stolen from another site:

Study done by the University of Missouri:

Didn't know the proper time to bring this to the board but a few years back there was a very intensive study done on postional Wins Against Replacement Value in the NFL over a 3 year period

Obviously the QB is the highest WAR value but second is you guessed it Interior Line.....what nope you are Wrong!

QB -5.19
WR -4.75
TE/FB -4.27
OT -3.58
Interior OL -.24
RB +.14

This study shows basically zero value in IOL so all you clamoring for IOL over WR in this past draft you may want to think again.

So the lower the number, the higher the WAR rating – the more important the position? Sorry, I'm not very good with numbers.

If it shows TE/FBs having a 'higher WAR rating' than OTs, I suggest the UM needs to regroup. Nobody would agree with that.

That said, nobody is going to dispute that IOL is lower on the offensive totem pole than QB, WR, OT, TE ... not sure about RB which is not currently fashionable. IOL probably only ranks higher than FB ... we all can agree on that.

Until you have to pass protect your QB or run the ball.

The numbers do not cover variables like the current strengths and weaknesses of the 2020 draft ... or ... what is the current state of a team's roster ... or ... what is the cap / player contract situation for a specific team moving forward ... and how does those variables influence its 2020 draft decisions ... etc. etc.

Next time I build a test tube football team and pour it into a petri dish with a controlled environment, I promise to reconsider.

So you don't understand it, but still comment and dismiss it? WAR is pretty commonly used in baseball. This isn't an vitro study. It's a retrospective study. But close on the petri dish. It can be extrapolated to the draft, players that achieve WAR rating by position by round. I'd be curious to see the difference from 4th/5th round to 6/7th round iol. Draft allocation of resources.

It's very similar to other studies I've seen. One I recently read had WR is valued 4x over lineman.

I have a lot more faith in Dennison/Kubiak than any set over the last 5 years. Similar to Paterson and his late round developments. We haven't had a good oline coach since Mike Tice who consistently turned late rounders into starters. I'll give this group a little time to prove it.

You seem to be taking this very personal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Cole explains how this "priority free agent" strategy works for the Vikings.

https://www.vikings.com/video/cole-i-had-just-accepted-a-free-agent-deal-with-seattle-but-then-the-phone-rang?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=exchange

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The last 15 'fifth-WR-off-the-board' in NFL Draft:

Justin Jefferson
Mecole Hardman
Christian Kirk
Curtis Samuel
Sterling Shepard
Breshad Perriman
Kelvin Benjamin
Robert Woods
Brian Quick
Torrey Smith
Golden Tate
Hakeem Nicks
Eddie Royal
Craig Davis
Travis Wilson

(Dustin Baker on Twitter)

Some of those receivers are decent, but I'm not seeing any greatness. Just saying, because perhaps we shouldn't get our hopes up too much. Wait. A Golden Tate would be pretty nice to have on our team as a #2 receiver. Which comparable would you like?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

No Viking olineman has even made a pro bowl appearance in the last 7 seasons.

I think O'Neal was deserving last season but nonetheless that's pretty telling when you consider the number of players that back out of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

1/3 of those were fellow first rounders. I doubt much can be taken from it.

Maybe Jefferson will be the best 5th WR taken, maybe just the best 5th taken in a virtual draft.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Cole explains how this "priority free agent" strategy works for the Vikings.

https://www.vikings.com/video/cole-i-had-just-accepted-a-free-agent-deal-with-seattle-but-then-the-phone-rang?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=exchange

So NFL teams are able to sign UDFA BEFORE the draft is over?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Spielman was asked in...
in post draft interview why he didn’t draft more OLmen early. He said that the last game against the Bears proved to him that Collins, Samia and Udoh were ready to compete for starting positions and he didn’t think it wise to invest in more that 1 OLman early. He said Cleveland was an OLman they coveted and could compete at OG or LOT giving them options at both positions.

It sounded to me like Spielman and Zimmer had more confidence in immediate help from our 1 yr PROs than rookies with limited time due to coronavirus.

GOOD...let's see what we have. I think Udoh and Samia are going to be a lot better than some believe on here.

Thinking that Samia, Udoh and Dozier are going to constitute anything more than mediocrity is complete homerism:

... it is watching Spielman '... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result' – using one pick in the first 3 rounds as a solution to the problem that has plagued us for years. It hasn't worked. He simply hasn't put enough resources into it / thrown enough solid talent at the OL to get more talent to stick.

... it is drafting an OT in the second rd. and then no other OL until the 6th rd when your two OG positions are absurdly devoid of proven starting talent ... and saying with a straight face after the draft that Cleveland, who has only started at LT in college and who is 'in dire need of additional mass and functional strength' will contribute in any substantive way this season to the G mix.

... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

... it is watching your team get absolutely ragdolled in our final game last year and thinking last year's back-ups are going to magically jump in and play superior to the starters they couldn't beat the previous year.

I think I have come to the realization we are never going to have a good OL while Spielman is GM. Hey, we proved last year you can 'get by' with a mediocre (at best) OL and win a playoff game so there's that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.

Weak G draft. You had to grab them early if you wanted one.

So major reach for need.

And then when that does not work out, call for the head of those that made the major reach that they were calling for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Cole explains how this "priority free agent" strategy works for the Vikings.

https://www.vikings.com/video/cole-i-had-just-accepted-a-free-agent-deal-with-seattle-but-then-the-phone-rang?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=exchange

So NFL teams are able to sign UDFA BEFORE the draft is over?

I think they can make verbal agreements, but I don't think they can actually sign until after the draft.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

My view is that I'm happy about the draft, but also honest enough to say I really don't know. Time will tell. Let's give it some time and also see what's next for the off-season. They're not done yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-grades-for-all-32-teams
MINNESOTA VIKINGS
Round 1 (22): WR Justin Jefferson, LSU
Round 1 (31): CB Jeff Gladney, TCU
Round 2 (58): T Ezra Cleveland, Boise State
Round 3 (89): CB Cameron Dantzler, Mississippi State
Round 4 (117): Edge DJ Wonnum, South Carolina
Round 4 (130): Edge James Lynch, Baylor
Round 4 (132): LB Troy Dye, Oregon
Round 5 (169): CB Harrison Hand, Temple
Round 5 (176): WR KJ Osborn, Miami (Fla.)
Round 6 (203): T Blake Brandel, Oregon State
Round 6 (205): S Josh Metellus, Michigan
Round 7 (225): Edge Kenny Willekes, Michigan State
Round 7 (244): QB Nate Stanley, Iowa
Round 7 (249): S Brian Cole II, Mississippi State
Round 7 (253): IOL Kyle Hinton, Washburn

Day 1: “The first order of business for Minnesota was damage limitation. The Vikings traded away Diggs; whether their hand was forced or not, the fact remains that one of the team’s best players from 2019 would be playing elsewhere in 2020. The position group he departed wasn’t nearly strong enough to cope with that loss without reinforcements. One of the team’s two first-round picks likely had to be spent on receiver, and that player will be expected to have a significant role immediately, lest the team be forced to rely on Tajae Sharpe, whose NFL career has averaged a PFF grade of 64.9.

Justin Jefferson to the Vikings was one of the most common player-team matchups on the PFF Draft Sim all through the pre-draft process, and it was a combination that made a lot of sense. Jefferson has the size (6-foot-2, 192 pounds) and route-running savvy to be successful from day one. While the PFF Big Board didn’t love him (he was No. 32 overall, behind a couple of receivers that lasted into the second round), he was a player who had an extremely staunch support base within the NFL — someone who was always going to go higher than his ranking. Jefferson’s grade improved in each of the past two seasons, landing at 85.3 overall in 2019. He brings experience playing both outside and inside in the slot, exactly as Diggs did. This first pick was about damage limitation, and this succeeded in limiting the damage as much as they could.” — PFF’s Sam Monson

“A number of teams will steer clear of Gladney in the early rounds due to size concerns and a recent surgery to repair his torn meniscus, but the team willing to move past those cons in his evaluation will reap the rewards. Gladney’s ball skills, instincts and physical demeanor should translate to early success in the NFL.” — PFF’s Austin Gayle

Jefferson and Gladney ranked 32nd and 34th, respectively, on PFF’s big board.

Day 2: “Tackle wasn’t necessarily the biggest weakness on this team, but it does give them some flexibility at the position and allow the line as a whole to creep back to, or even above, average going forward. Cleveland is a pick for the future but could potentially make an impact right away. “ — PFF’s Sam Monson

“His slight frame will be a concern and was what caused him to slip as far as he did, but at some point, you need to trust the tape. Dantzler’s tape is as strong as any corner in this class outside of Jeffrey Okudah — to snag him as low as they did represents a relatively low risk with a potentially huge payoff.” — PFF’s Sam Monson

Cleveland and Dantzler ranked 58th and 50th, respectively, on PFF’s big board.

Day 3: Minnesota certainly wasn’t short on Day 3 picks. Of their 11 selections on Saturday, the two players who stick out as the best values on the PFF board are Troy Dye and Kenny Willekes. Dye has plenty of starting experience at linebacker for the Oregon Ducks and a track record of strong play in coverage where he can use his length to influence passing lanes. He has four straight seasons of 70.0-plus coverage grades. Willekes was 83rd on the PFF Big Board thanks in large part to how reliable he was against the run. He earned the top run defender superlative in the PFF Draft Guide, and his ability to push the pocket along with his high motor could lead to reasonable production as a pass-rusher.

Draft Grade: A

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Stolen from another site:

Study done by the University of Missouri:

Didn't know the proper time to bring this to the board but a few years back there was a very intensive study done on postional Wins Against Replacement Value in the NFL over a 3 year period

Obviously the QB is the highest WAR value but second is you guessed it Interior Line.....what nope you are Wrong!

QB -5.19
WR -4.75
TE/FB -4.27
OT -3.58
Interior OL -.24
RB +.14

This study shows basically zero value in IOL so all you clamoring for IOL over WR in this past draft you may want to think again.

So the lower the number, the higher the WAR rating – the more important the position? Sorry, I'm not very good with numbers.

If it shows TE/FBs having a 'higher WAR rating' than OTs, I suggest the UM needs to regroup. Nobody would agree with that.

That said, nobody is going to dispute that IOL is lower on the offensive totem pole than QB, WR, OT, TE ... not sure about RB which is not currently fashionable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Stolen from another site:

Study done by the University of Missouri:

Didn't know the proper time to bring this to the board but a few years back there was a very intensive study done on postional Wins Against Replacement Value in the NFL over a 3 year period

Obviously the QB is the highest WAR value but second is you guessed it Interior Line.....what nope you are Wrong!

QB -5.19
WR -4.75
TE/FB -4.27
OT -3.58
Interior OL -.24
RB +.14

This study shows basically zero value in IOL so all you clamoring for IOL over WR in this past draft you may want to think again.

So the lower the number, the higher the WAR rating – the more important the position? Sorry, I'm not very good with numbers.

If it shows TE/FBs having a 'higher WAR rating' than OTs, I suggest the UM needs to regroup. Nobody would agree with that.

That said, nobody is going to dispute that IOL is lower on the offensive totem pole than QB, WR, OT, TE ... not sure about RB which is not currently fashionable.

I'm pretty sure that means the worse your RB unit is, the better your team will be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

No Viking olineman has even made a pro bowl appearance in the last 7 seasons.

I think O'Neal was deserving last season but nonetheless that's pretty telling when you consider the number of players that back out of it.

O'Neill has not been giving up sacks, but for whatever reason got the same PFF grade as Reiff. I don't think he's as good as many of us think he is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Reason the Vikings like Cleveland:

7. EZRA CLEVELAND, BOISE STATE
Draft Board Rank: 57th
Cleveland was one of the biggest draft risers with his performance at the Combine, and for good reason. The track record for guys with his sort of movement skills is very good. He posted the best three-cone (7.26) and best short-shuttle (4.46) of any offensive lineman in attendance to go along with a 4.93-second 40. Only two tackles drafted in the first round over the past 15 years have bested both Cleveland’s cone and shuttle: Joe Staley and Anthony Castonzo.

The athleticism would be one thing if it didn’t translate to a football field, but Cleveland has earned pass-protection grades in the 80s for three straight seasons. The fact that he was losing at all against some of the competition he faced is concerning, though, and he doesn’t play nearly as strong as his 30 bench reps would suggest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

No Viking olineman has even made a pro bowl appearance in the last 7 seasons.

I think O'Neal was deserving last season but nonetheless that's pretty telling when you consider the number of players that back out of it.

O'Neill has not been giving up sacks, but for whatever reason got the same PFF grade as Reiff. I don't think he's as good as many of us think he is.