RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats

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RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 7:48:57 PM

Easy E

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[quote="JamieH"]I think the penalty is probably fair...losing draft choices is a big deal. I also think it tarnishes the Patriots image...a lot. They were one of the teams you cheered for if your team wasn't in the game. Now, they are one of the teams you cheer against. I actually think what the NFL should have done is to take this as evidence to probe deeper...confisgate Patriots memos, videos, etc. But that is a nightmare scenario for them...so I am not suprized they didn't.[/quote] I think allowing the Patriots to have a 1st round, 2nd round, and two 3rd round pick this year (because they will make the playoffs) is really not much of a punishment at all. The fine is nothing, as pointed out, that's one tenth of one year's salary. It's the cost of a coupel PUP squad players. It's peanuts. Robert Kraft won't care one bit, and he got 3 Super Bowls for it. So instead of adding 2 1st round caliber players, the Patriots will get to add only one. That will sure teach them. Except Cheatin Bill has already said that A) In his mind, he didn't do anything wrong. The NFL had (in his mind) an incorrect application of the rules. and B) He's moving on. If anyone think this means he won't try to steal signs, radio signals, etc. you're fooling yourself. He's already got half the ESPN guys kinda congratulating him under the table. I don't think LT mean (if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin as a compliment, but some of those guys seem to almost respect Bill's "competetive" nature. The one that lead to blatant cheating. I would totally and completely trade Troy Williamson for one year of knowing what plays the other team is calling all season. I'd give up a lot more than that, in fact.

Post #: 101

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 7:52:08 PM

Jeff Jesser

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The fine is the largest PT could enforce but Fargo is right. He'll get it back from Kraft somehow. That isn't the issue. It's the fact that PT didn't give up a suspension for a power wielding coach but he'll rain them down on players in a heart beat. He's all talk.

Post #: 102

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 7:52:52 PM

Jake Carlson

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I see what you're saying, Jamie. I just think that Goodell has been on such a mission to prove a point of no tolerance with his previous penalities, and this one doesn't seem consistent. Let's face it, the fines (aka donations or tax write-offs) in this league are a joke and don't mean a thing. We all know that one way or another Robert Kraft will be paying that and not BB. So, that basically means that he's penalizing them by taking away a draft pick, but he's even giving them a way of getting off easier on that. To me, this isn't even close to the same as suspending a player for an entire season no ifs, ands, or buts. Not that I think this has any chance of happening, but can you imagine if the Pats won only 4-5 games this season, how much scrutiny their "dynasty" would be under?

Post #: 103

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 8:17:08 PM

Jake Carlson

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[quote="Easy E"] If anyone think this means he won't try to steal signs, radio signals, etc. you're fooling yourself. He's already got half the ESPN guys kinda congratulating him under the table. I don't think LT mean (if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin as a compliment, but some of those guys seem to almost respect Bill's "competetive" nature. The one that lead to blatant cheating. I would totally and completely trade Troy Williamson for one year of knowing what plays the other team is calling all season. I'd give up a lot more than that, in fact. Exactly. Not to mention that there are many other questionable things going on with the Pats. This was one of the stories that I found compelling from the previously linked CNNSI article:

quote:

"At one point we had a good drive going against the Patriots," said one Lion who doesn't want his name involved in this mess, but was willing to talk about it. "Mike Martz really had 'em going. They were getting fouled up, lining up wrong, we were moving the ball. Then boom, the headset from the sidelines to the coaches' booth goes out. "Next possession we were moving the ball again and the same thing happened. You know it only takes two or three plays to mess up a drive." Matt Millen, the Lions' GM, says he was talking to another team's head coach at the league meetings. He started telling him the story. "Yeah, I know," the coach said. "Headset went out. It happened to me in Foxboro, too."

Post #: 104

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 8:40:15 PM

Jim Frenette

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[quote="Jake Carlson"]I see what you're saying, Jamie. I just think that Goodell has been on such a mission to prove a point of no tolerance with his previous penalities, and this one doesn't seem consistent. Let's face it, the fines (aka donations or tax write-offs) in this league are a joke and don't mean a thing. We all know that one way or another Robert Kraft will be paying that and not BB. So, that basically means that he's penalizing them by taking away a draft pick, but he's even giving them a way of getting off easier on that. To me, this isn't even close to the same as suspending a player for an entire season no ifs, ands, or buts. Not that I think this has any chance of happening, but can you imagine if the Pats won only 4-5 games this season, how much scrutiny their "dynasty" would be under?[/quote] Plus BB was caught doing it last year in GB and was told he couldn't do that. After a warning and to continue is a slap in the face of the NFL and the punishment should have reflected it as hard as some of the players.

Post #: 105

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 9:32:20 PM

John Childress

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[quote="Jim Frenette"][quote="Jeff Jesser"]Way too lite IMO. They still have a 1st rounder left so, yes it hurts, but it's not crippling. A suspension was a no-brainer. I won't argue "how many" but every player that has seen the paper tiger has gotten some form of it.[/quote] Even Wade Wilson got a 4 game suspension for something he did in 2004 to help his erectile dysfunction. Also if the NFL can suspend a player 8+ games for off field problems that affect the image of the NFL, then BB showed be treated the same way. The fine is small thing as next year he can have his contract redone and get that money back from the owner. Taking away a #1 when they still have a higher one with the 49ers is also weak.[/quote]Pathetic El miembro de una comisiÃƒÂ³n carece testÃƒÂculos

Post #: 106

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 9:32:46 PM

Jake Carlson

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[quote="Jim Frenette"][quote="Jeff Jesser"]Way too lite IMO. They still have a 1st rounder left so, yes it hurts, but it's not crippling. A suspension was a no-brainer. I won't argue "how many" but every player that has seen the paper tiger has gotten some form of it. Even Wade Wilson got a 4 game suspension for something he did in 2004 to help his erectile dysfunction. Also if the NFL can suspend a player 8+ games for off field problems that affect the image of the NFL, then BB showed be treated the same way. The fine is small thing as next year he can have his contract redone and get that money back from the owner. Taking away a #1 when they still have a higher one with the 49ers is also weak. Looks like Wade agrees with you, Fargo!

quote:

In his first comments since NFL commissioner Roger Goodell punished coach Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots for cheating without banning him from coaching in games, Cowboys quarterbacks coach Wade Wilson said he intends to write a letter to the league office seeking an explanation for what he considers inconsistent enforcement of NFL policy. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3019472

Post #: 107

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/14/2007 11:14:17 PM

Easy E

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[quote="Jake Carlson"][quote="Jim Frenette"][quote="Jeff Jesser"]Way too lite IMO. They still have a 1st rounder left so, yes it hurts, but it's not crippling. A suspension was a no-brainer. I won't argue "how many" but every player that has seen the paper tiger has gotten some form of it. Even Wade Wilson got a 4 game suspension for something he did in 2004 to help his erectile dysfunction. Also if the NFL can suspend a player 8+ games for off field problems that affect the image of the NFL, then BB showed be treated the same way. The fine is small thing as next year he can have his contract redone and get that money back from the owner. Taking away a #1 when they still have a higher one with the 49ers is also weak. Looks like Wade agrees with you, Fargo!

quote:

In his first comments since NFL commissioner Roger Goodell punished coach Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots for cheating without banning him from coaching in games, Cowboys quarterbacks coach Wade Wilson said he intends to write a letter to the league office seeking an explanation for what he considers inconsistent enforcement of NFL policy. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3019472

I had not realized the commish and Pat Kraft were old friends. I think he did this thinking it would go away. I hope it comes back to bite him, as the hypocrisy and tiny, tiny ding he's trying to give them is a sick joke. Commish's "real" answer to Wade Wilson "Shut the hell up. You are a lowly QB coach and should not be causing me problems. Trying to get it up for your wife is a much worse crime than blatantly cheating, and my punishments are completely fair. It has nothing to do with the Patriots winning the Super Bowls, or my love for Bill B and Patty K. I have no problem hitting someone personally, as evidenced by my suspensions of players and of you. What you fail to realize is that the best way to hurt Bill B, is not by a suspension, but by taking away 1 of Pat K's 5 day one picks. Sincerely, the law and order commish" Sick.

Post #: 108

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/15/2007 1:37:14 AM

Jeff Jesser

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[quote="John Childress"][quote="Jim Frenette"][quote="Jeff Jesser"]Way too lite IMO. They still have a 1st rounder left so, yes it hurts, but it's not crippling. A suspension was a no-brainer. I won't argue "how many" but every player that has seen the paper tiger has gotten some form of it.[/quote] Even Wade Wilson got a 4 game suspension for something he did in 2004 to help his erectile dysfunction. Also if the NFL can suspend a player 8+ games for off field problems that affect the image of the NFL, then BB showed be treated the same way. The fine is small thing as next year he can have his contract redone and get that money back from the owner. Taking away a #1 when they still have a higher one with the 49ers is also weak.[/quote]Pathetic El miembro de una comisiÃƒÂ³n carece testÃƒÂculos[/quote] Certainly looks like since he's acting like a big pu$$y.

Post #: 109

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/15/2007 3:06:52 AM

Cheesehead Craig

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quote:

In his first comments since NFL commissioner Roger Goodell punished coach Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots for cheating without banning him from coaching in games, Cowboys quarterbacks coach Wade Wilson said he intends to write a letter to the league office seeking an explanation for what he considers inconsistent enforcement of NFL policy. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3019472

Wade Wilson writing a letter to the commish is akin to Grandpa Simpson writing a letter to the President saying there are too many states and he needs to eliminate 3.

Post #: 110

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/15/2007 3:18:28 AM

Todd M

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[quote="Cheesehead Craig"][quote="Jake Carlson"][quote="Jim Frenette"][quote="Jeff Jesser"]Way too lite IMO. They still have a 1st rounder left so, yes it hurts, but it's not crippling. A suspension was a no-brainer. I won't argue "how many" but every player that has seen the paper tiger has gotten some form of it. Even Wade Wilson got a 4 game suspension for something he did in 2004 to help his erectile dysfunction. Also if the NFL can suspend a player 8+ games for off field problems that affect the image of the NFL, then BB showed be treated the same way. The fine is small thing as next year he can have his contract redone and get that money back from the owner. Taking away a #1 when they still have a higher one with the 49ers is also weak. Looks like Wade agrees with you, Fargo!

quote:

In his first comments since NFL commissioner Roger Goodell punished coach Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots for cheating without banning him from coaching in games, Cowboys quarterbacks coach Wade Wilson said he intends to write a letter to the league office seeking an explanation for what he considers inconsistent enforcement of NFL policy. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3019472

Wade Wilson writing a letter to the commish is akin to Grandpa Simpson writing a letter to the President saying there are too many states and he needs to eliminate 3. Nice! I'm still happy that he did it and that it was reported on. I'm glad there's a court of public opinion because money and power corrupt the legal ones.

Post #: 111

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 1:05:35 AM

Todd M

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SUPER BOWL WINS ARE CALLED INTO QUESTION Now that the book has been closed (apparently) on the whole Pats video thing, it's time to ponder the question of whether any of the trio of three-point wins in Super Bowls XXXXVI, XXXVIII, and XXXIX were the result of any type of cheating. As to the Eagles in Super Bowl XXXIX, whom the Patriots beat by a field goal to cap the 2004 season, some of the players think that the answer could be yes. "I was giving them a whole bunch of credit for making halftime adjustments. . . . It's troublesome," safety Brian Dawkins said on Thursday. "I don't know how different to say it -- it bothers me." As to the Panthers in Super Bowl XXXVIII, whom the Patriots beat by a field goal to cap the 2003 season, there are rumblings of skullduggery occurring not based on halftime adjustments, but on pregame planning. "Some sources within the team's Bank of America Stadium facilities said there were rumblings that the Patriots might have filmed at least two of Carolina's practices in the week leading into the Super Bowl after the 2003 season," writes Pat Yasinskas of the Charlotte Observer. Former Panthers defensive tackle Brentson Buckner hinted at such suspicions during a Friday appearance on the Mac Attack on WFNZ in Charlotte. "I know in that Super Bowl game . . . we worked on some stuff that we had never ran against Tom Brady," Buckner said. "We got in that game and he called out everything that we did. . . . It makes you wonder about the knowledge that Tom Brady and those guys [had] because they literally in plays knew where you were going." As to the Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI, whom the Patriots beat by a field goal to cap the 2001 season, the manner in which that game unfolded could raise questions as to whether the Pats acquired advance knowledge via questionable means. Through two quarters, the Pats held the Greatest Show-Offs on Turf to a measly three points, their lowest first-half output of the season. As to any of the three Super Bowls, there's always a chance that someone will eventually spill the beans (if there are beans to spill), and the climate that has been created in the wake of this week's events could be enough to get someone to turn the bag of beans upside down, and shake the hell out of it. If that happens, it makes Belichick's decision to continue to risk getting caught when it was clear that his former lieutenant was looking to catch him seem even more stupid. I'm all for shaking things up but I'm not sure the NFL would really take that big of a hit. Nothing like baseball did with the last strike anyway. For me personally I have lost respect for the NFL but my watching of the games themselves will not change because of it. I have a question though. Who gets the 750K from the fines? All the other fines as well. I'm sure it's been mentioned before but I'd like to know.

Post #: 112

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 1:59:50 AM

Easy E

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[quote="Todd Mallett"]I'm all for shaking things up but I'm not sure the NFL would really take that big of a hit. Nothing like baseball did with the last strike anyway. For me personally I have lost respect for the NFL but my watching of the games themselves will not change because of it. I have a question though. Who gets the 750K from the fines? All the other fines as well. I'm sure it's been mentioned before but I'd like to know.[/quote] I think if it comes out that Cheatin Bill won Super Bowlsl because he taped practices, taped calls, blocked radio signals, etc. I think it should be one of the biggest scandals in the history of sports. On a par with the Black Sox scandal, definitely bigger than Pete Rose, etc. Pete Rose affected the outcomes of games on a much, much smaller scale than Bill did, IMO. I really, truly think this is a disgraceful act, and he really should be suspended. IMO this is worse than players taking ped's to improve their play. This is out and out cheating. But, I agree with you, the average NFL fan doesn't seem to care about it, at least not at that level. It seems to be more of an "jeez, that's too bad" kinda response. I think it's a little wierd.

Post #: 113

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 2:11:15 AM

Todd M

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It's very refreshing to be on the same page with someone. I was thinking it had the potential to be one of the biggest scandals as well. If no one was above the system it would have a trickle down effect, with more people respecting said system.

Post #: 114

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 2:11:36 AM

Todd M

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I still want to know about the fines though.

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RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 2:13:58 AM

Lynn G.

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Todd, I don't know what they do at the top level, but I know that when the Vikings collect fines from players they put the money in a pool for charitable donations. It would be nice if the NFL did that as well, but I don't know the answer to that.

Post #: 116

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 2:19:43 AM

Todd M

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Thanks Lynn, I hope they do as well. Should just be able to Google it and presto but noooo.

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RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 2:52:34 AM

Lynn G.

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There have been some comments about the possibility that other teams have done something similar to what Bellicheat was discovered doing, with the qualifier that even if anyone else IS doing it, it doesn't make it right. But it's interesting to note that I don't believe I've actually heard any credible accusations from anyone in the NFL (players, coaches ...) that there actually IS anyone else who may have been doing this. This seems like an instant when one guy, or one organization, truly is the only one guilty of the crime. Many times it's true that one person gets caught for something many others are doing (i.e. Mike Tice and the Superbowl tickets) and they just have to take their lumps and pay the price. But in this case, without any other evidence or accusation out there, I think there's a possibility that Bellicheat stands alone on this.

Post #: 118

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 4:33:32 PM

Duane Sampson

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Mangini Filming Patriots Coaches? Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports rumor has it that New York Jets HC Eric Mangini had someone filming New England coaches last season in Foxborough and that Patriots HC Bill Belichick was simply returning the favor last Sunday in the Meadowlands. I'd be shocked if NE was the only team that has been videotaping other teams.

Post #: 119

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 4:37:25 PM

Duane Sampson

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Dungy Chimes in on Patriots Spying Incident Sat Sep 15, 2007 The Tribune Star reports Indianapolis Colts HC Tony Dungy chimed in on the Patriot-Jets Spygate incident. In a statement released by the league Thursday evening, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell fined Patriots HC Bill Belichick $500,000 and the team $250,000. He also ordered New England to forfeit a first round draft pick (if the Patriots make the playoffs) or a second and third round pick (if they miss the postseason). "Really a sad day for the NFL. Another case of the 99 percent good things that are happening really being overshadowed by one percent bad. So I think itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a really bad, bad situation for the NFL in total because, again, people arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t talking our product. TheyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re not talking about all the great things that happened in week one [of the NFL]. TheyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re talking about a negative incident," Dungy said. "I feel sorry for a lot of people involved. I feel sorry for some really good guys on the Patriots that are going to be tarnished by this. I look at [quarterback] Tom Brady, [defensive end] Richard Seymour, [wide receiver] Troy Brown. Those are guys I talk about to our team, of the way you do things. The way you want to represent the NFL. WeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve got two guys on our team, PK Adam Vinatieri and DT Dan Klecko that are the same way. TheyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re going to be linked now with negative. And thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s too bad." The Colts coach didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t stop there, as he wondered aloud what the lasting effects of such an incident would have on a successful franchise like New England in particular and the league in general. "Everytime IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve talked to [Patriots owner] Bob Kraft, he presents the type of image I know what he wants to present. I feel bad for him, because heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s going to have to answer a lot of questions. Going to have to answer questions all the time, from here on out. When headsets go wrong, which they go wrong everywhere. Headsets go wrong in our stadium. But when they go wrong up there now, heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s going to have to answer is it something that just happened or is this planned? ThereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s bad grass everywhere. But when the grass doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t grow up there, you know, heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s going to be asked about it. And thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s too bad," Dungy said. "I feel bad for him. I feel bad for young people that have looked at this organization [the Patriots] and said, Ã¢â‚¬ËœHey, these are people who won three Super Bowls. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s what I want to be like.Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ And I feel bad for young coaches. I hope they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t feel like this is what you have to do to win, because you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have to do that to win. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s tough. Nobody wants to throw stones at anybody else. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m certainly not throwing stones at them. But I think itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a very, very bad thing for the NFL. Just another situation that weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve had that isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t good for us or our fans. And weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve got to be careful. We got to make sure that we donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t end up like some other sports where the negative headlines outweigh the positive. I think we have to look at what it is. WeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re not talking about stealing signals and weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re not talking about individual incidents. What weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re talking about is breaking the rule. I think thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s the thing thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s different in this case and thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s the part thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s too bad."

Post #: 120

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 6:10:04 PM

Lynn G.

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Post #: 121

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/16/2007 6:32:25 PM

Easy E

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[quote="Duane Sampson"]Mangini Filming Patriots Coaches? Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports rumor has it that New York Jets HC Eric Mangini had someone filming New England coaches last season in Foxborough and that Patriots HC Bill Belichick was simply returning the favor last Sunday in the Meadowlands. I'd be shocked if NE was the only team that has been videotaping other teams.[/quote] True, but I get a lot of those that do have ties or even learned it from Cheatin Bill. 22 NFL teams wanted to go to wireless headset for the defense. I think you can cross most of them off the list. 10 teams didn't. Maybe half of those teams didn't want it because they truly thought it wasn't a good idea, or would cost too much, or needed better technology, etc. But we know for sure that Cheatin Bill's reasons for being adamantly against it were. And he's got at least 3-4 other guys that studied under him and grew up as coaches under him. I'd be willing to bet they voted against it too. I don't for one second think Tony Dungy would ever sanction actions like this, and that's the point. He's a class act all the way. That, unfortunately, is what a lot of us schmucks thought we were watching. Turns out the NFL consipriacy guys (c'mon, you all have a friend or three like this) were right, they just had who was rigging the games wrong. Or do they? Bill Belicheat's problem is that he doesn't view football as a sport or a game, where there are rules of conduct. He views it as a war, a battle, where anything goes. Some people admired him for that, and I think some still do. If you understand that's where he's coming from, you can understand why in his mind, there is no problem with knowing exactly, for sure, what play the other team is calling. That's why he did it, and I believe he's going to keep doing it. And his disciples probably will too.

Post #: 122

RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats - 9/17/2007 1:04:31 PM

John Childress

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Did anyone catch these two headlines: