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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens)

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/6/2011 5:01:06 PM   
panndder


Posts: 4114
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline 		Nolen puts the team on his back so many times (think Louisville, Butler, North Carolina, West Virginia, and many more games that fade together) and you guys still aren't impressed. I really like Armelin, have from day one, but he's too much of a flash in the pan guy at this point and is more of a scorer than a shooter (ideally your 2 would be both).

I don't know how to fully explain how wrong you are.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 8:46:03 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Not really. I've had my chances to get married so far; haven't taken them.


Translation; the air kept kept leaking out of them before he could get them down the aisle.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 9:57:43 AM   
Jim Frenette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Ahanmisi wasn't given much of a chance today, huh? Must have had a bad week of practice.


He was getting more floor time subbing for Nolan then he is now with Blake at the PG

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 10:53:43 AM   
panndder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Ahanmisi wasn't given much of a chance today, huh? Must have had a bad week of practice.


He was getting more floor time subbing for Nolan then he is now with Blake at the PG


Sure, but who were we playing?
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 11:25:58 AM   
djskillz


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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Sounds like we may never agree on Nolen, but can we all at least agree that Sampson sucks?

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 12:08:55 PM   
panndder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Sounds like we may never agree on Nolen, but can we all at least agree that Sampson sucks?


He's frustrating, yet fairly effective most of the time. I think you're expecting everyone to be lottery picks or something. I honestly cannot fathom how you view this team. Remember when we had Tollackson and Coleman three years ago?
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 12:12:13 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Sounds like we may never agree on Nolen, but can we all at least agree that Sampson sucks?


He's frustrating, yet fairly effective most of the time. I think you're expecting everyone to be lottery picks or something. I honestly cannot fathom how you view this team. Remember when we had Tollackson and Coleman three years ago?


Not at all. But I do expect a talented guy to give effort all the time. Not half-ass it for long stretches of games. Which Sampson does ALL THE TIME.

Nolen is not "awful" but he should not be a starting PG for a top 20 team in the country, period. This isn't just some Gophers thing; I feel the same exact way about Tinsley at Vanderbilt. And I feel that way about a couple of the rotation guys at UT (Bruce Pearl's son Steven, and Skylar McBee).

The talent on this team is much better than it was a few years ago, absolutely. But that doesn't mean they're beyond criticism.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 2/7/2011 2:36:53 PM >

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 3:26:05 PM   
panndder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Sounds like we may never agree on Nolen, but can we all at least agree that Sampson sucks?


He's frustrating, yet fairly effective most of the time. I think you're expecting everyone to be lottery picks or something. I honestly cannot fathom how you view this team. Remember when we had Tollackson and Coleman three years ago?


Not at all. But I do expect a talented guy to give effort all the time. Not half-ass it for long stretches of games. Which Sampson does ALL THE TIME.

Nolen is not "awful" but he should not be a starting PG for a top 20 team in the country, period. This isn't just some Gophers thing; I feel the same exact way about Tinsley at Vanderbilt. And I feel that way about a couple of the rotation guys at UT (Bruce Pearl's son Steven, and Skylar McBee).

The talent on this team is much better than it was a few years ago, absolutely. But that doesn't mean they're beyond criticism.


I agree with you on Sampson, but he's still not a BAD option by any stretch. Nolen isn't going to be a star on a top 20 team but he plays his role very well and would not be a liability on any other team, except those who have a stud PG who can score at will and rely on that.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 3:46:51 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Sounds like we may never agree on Nolen, but can we all at least agree that Sampson sucks?


He's frustrating, yet fairly effective most of the time. I think you're expecting everyone to be lottery picks or something. I honestly cannot fathom how you view this team. Remember when we had Tollackson and Coleman three years ago?


Not at all. But I do expect a talented guy to give effort all the time. Not half-ass it for long stretches of games. Which Sampson does ALL THE TIME.

Nolen is not "awful" but he should not be a starting PG for a top 20 team in the country, period. This isn't just some Gophers thing; I feel the same exact way about Tinsley at Vanderbilt. And I feel that way about a couple of the rotation guys at UT (Bruce Pearl's son Steven, and Skylar McBee).

The talent on this team is much better than it was a few years ago, absolutely. But that doesn't mean they're beyond criticism.


I agree with you on Sampson, but he's still not a BAD option by any stretch. Nolen isn't going to be a star on a top 20 team but he plays his role very well and would not be a liability on any other team, except those who have a stud PG who can score at will and rely on that.


Sure, Sampson's not a 'bad' option but he's frustrating as hell and needs to play much, much harder and better than he does.

Nolen wouldn't get to play on a lot of other top 20 teams. At all.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 5:09:06 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Nolen wouldn't get to play on a lot of other top 20 teams. At all.


I'm not much of a Nolen fan, but that simply isn't true. Nolan is a sure handed ball handler and a good not great passer. He will get to the line and play strong point defense. A player like that starts for the Gophers and gets a fair amount of clock off the bench for a top team. The Gophers were a top 20 team with the lineup and dropped out without him. I dispute that he has ever put the team on his back, but he could definitely play a decent non starting roll for a top program.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 5:12:42 PM   
djskillz


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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Not sure about that Tim.

Duke-wouldn't play a single minute probably.
Kansas-probably ditto
etc.

How many other top 20 teams would Nolen start on, is my main point? He's "solid" but the Gophers can and should do better for a PG for the program.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 5:58:17 PM   
Pete M.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Not sure about that Tim.

Duke-wouldn't play a single minute probably.
Kansas-probably ditto
etc.

How many other top 20 teams would Nolen start on, is my main point? He's "solid" but the Gophers can and should do better for a PG for the program.


I'm pretty confident Nolen would play more than a little for Duke right now, with Irving out. He's a better player than Tyler Thornton. And Duke's quick pace this year would be a good fit for his ballhawking, passing, and speed/quickness. I bet K would play him at least 15-20 mins a game.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/7/2011 6:07:09 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Not sure about that Tim.

Duke-wouldn't play a single minute probably.
Kansas-probably ditto
etc.

How many other top 20 teams would Nolen start on, is my main point? He's "solid" but the Gophers can and should do better for a PG for the program.


I'm pretty confident Nolen would play more than a little for Duke right now, with Irving out. He's a better player than Tyler Thornton. And Duke's quick pace this year would be a good fit for his ballhawking, passing, and speed/quickness. I bet K would play him at least 15-20 mins a game.


Maybe with Irving out, maybe. With Irving he's the 5th or 6th guard in the rotation on the team. Thornton wouldn't play much at all if Irving was healthy. But I actually think Thornton might be better than Nolen still. There's not really anything he does any better than Thornton (he's a worse shooter, they're about the same passing-wise and defensively) and Thornton is younger. I also just can't see Coach K playing with a PG that has such an atrocious shot as Nolen.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 10:17:54 AM   
Jim Frenette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Not sure about that Tim.

Duke-wouldn't play a single minute probably.
Kansas-probably ditto
etc.

How many other top 20 teams would Nolen start on, is my main point? He's "solid" but the Gophers can and should do better for a PG for the program.


That isn't fair, the best will go to schools like Duke, Kentucky and Kansas just for the name. They really don't have to recruit at those schools that hard

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 10:56:30 AM   
djskillz


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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Sure. And I don't expect the Gophers to have a PG as good as Duke/Kentucky/Kansas.

But I do expect them to do better than an Al Nolen (with nothing really behind him either). It's not just about those 3 big schools; it's about all the others in the top 20-25. Other than Vanderbilt (I also have a problem with Tinsley, as mentioned) I'm not sure there's a worse starting PG than Nolen. Or if so, there certainly aren't many.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 11:14:13 AM   
panndder


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Status: offline 		Sorry that Al Nolen pissed in your Wheaties, Skillz.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 11:23:17 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

Sorry that Al Nolen pissed in your Wheaties, Skillz.


He's not terrible. And obviously I want him to do well. I'm simply saying that the Gophers should be looking to upgrade the PG spot if they're going to take another step as a team. They can and should do better.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 11:51:17 AM   
Jim Frenette


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Status: offline 		I'm of the thinking that if a team has some scores from other positions, they just need a PG that takes care of the ball and plays defense. Don't need a big scorer from all positions

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 11:52:45 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		PG's an extremely important position, especially in college basketball, specifically come tournament time.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 11:55:06 AM   
TJSweens


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Status: offline 		That works to a degree Jim. The PG in that scenario needs to at least be a decent shooter, so other teams don't simply back off him, double down on a real offensive threat and dare him to shoot. That is exactly what happens with Nolen because he is such a putrid shooter. He does several things well, but there just isn't that sense that he will knock down the open J to open the floor for teammates. 

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 2:46:00 PM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Yep. A PG needs to be able to shoot, especially come tourney time. And it's not like Nolen's even a great passer to go with that. He's about average in that department, nothing more.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 2:50:39 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Status: offline 		Nolen is better than what they have now.

I read Souhan, believing that Armelin should move to the point.

Guess it can't get much worse??!!??

Hoffarber is doing what he can at the point, but they're just not much of an offensive team without a guy who can penetrate.

Mav is certainly not that guy now.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 2:52:09 PM   
TJSweens


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Status: offline 		Nolen is a better than average passer. Better than average ball handler. Better than average defender. Good at getting to the line. That is why is a useful player despite being an atrocious shooter. 

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 2:53:07 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		I'd say better than average defender, average in the rest, atrocious shooter.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/8/2011 3:15:38 PM   
Jim Frenette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

That works to a degree Jim. The PG in that scenario needs to at least be a decent shooter, so other teams don't simply back off him, double down on a real offensive threat and dare him to shoot. That is exactly what happens with Nolen because he is such a putrid shooter. He does several things well, but there just isn't that sense that he will knock down the open J to open the floor for teammates. 


Rondo came into the league as a weak shooter and even now they will just dare him to shoot. He is getting better, but most of his scoring is driving to the basket

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