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RE: Players and prospects III

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:21:06 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		It's not so much about being a "Gibson lover" at this point. It's just 1) the timing, 2) Colon absolutely blows. He is TERRIBLE, and has been worse than Gibson this year. With no upside. I'd rather upset the random old man that is about to retire than the guy who, for better or worse, has given this organization 10+ years of his life.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:22:21 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		And I'm not sure how this hasn't come up yet...

https://www.hulu.com/watch/10304

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:25:46 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Just for the record, 2017, not even counting "recent" success from Gibson:

Gibson: 6.08 ERA, 94.2 IP, 62 K's, 1.711 WHIP
Colon: 8.00 ERA, 72.0 IP, 47 K's, 1.778 WHIP

For those that keep saying "Gibson's been awful!", yes, he has. But Colon's been much worse, in a worse league.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:26:24 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's not so much about being a "Gibson lover" at this point. It's just 1) the timing, 2) Colon absolutely blows. He is TERRIBLE, and has been worse than Gibson this year. With no upside. I'd rather upset the random old man that is about to retire than the guy who, for better or worse, has given this organization 10+ years of his life.


to me it is not like we sent down a good pitcher to begin with. Those 10 years haven't exactly been good. He is the embodiment of how inconsistent this rotation and pitching staff has been. Sometimes you get lights out, sometimes lit up. From the same pitcher in the same week. I am shedding no tears for Gibson. I will shed no tears for Colon either. It sounds like the Twins may be trading a few guys by Monday and then Gibson if he's still here will get another chance. Colon will at worst finish out this season with the team and not be retained. I don't see the problem here. This team is going nowhere fast. If we have to choose between Gibson and Colon, I get your argument but I would be fine with Neither or someone else option.

Colon is not the future.
Gibson really isn't either.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:27:46 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Just for the record, 2017, not even counting "recent" success from Gibson:

Gibson: 6.08 ERA, 94.2 IP, 62 K's, 1.711 WHIP
Colon: 8.00 ERA, 72.0 IP, 47 K's, 1.778 WHIP

For those that keep saying "Gibson's been awful!", yes, he has. But Colon's been much worse, in a worse league.




They BOTH SUCK!!!!

Let's not sugar coat this shit. There is no reason to defend Gibson this much.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:31:24 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's not so much about being a "Gibson lover" at this point. It's just 1) the timing, 2) Colon absolutely blows. He is TERRIBLE, and has been worse than Gibson this year. With no upside. I'd rather upset the random old man that is about to retire than the guy who, for better or worse, has given this organization 10+ years of his life.


to me it is not like we sent down a good pitcher to begin with. Those 10 years haven't exactly been good. He is the embodiment of how inconsistent this rotation and pitching staff has been. Sometimes you get lights out, sometimes lit up. From the same pitcher in the same week. I am shedding no tears for Gibson. I will shed no tears for Colon either. It sounds like the Twins may be trading a few guys by Monday and then Gibson if he's still here will get another chance. Colon will at worst finish out this season with the team and not be retained. I don't see the problem here. This team is going nowhere fast. If we have to choose between Gibson and Colon, I get your argument but I would be fine with Neither or someone else option.

Colon is not the future.
Gibson really isn't either.


I'm fine with neither, but right now there is NO good argument for Colon over Gibson to win NOW, and this team is still in it right NOW. They haven't sold yet. Gibson absolutely gives the team a (albeit small) better chance to win than Colon. That's our point.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:31:53 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 26381
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		How do you get Gibson on track...send him down as many times as it takes since they still have control. He should have Berrios/Santana numbers.

Gibson has been babied way too much and just allowed to put up crap results.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:38:24 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's not so much about being a "Gibson lover" at this point. It's just 1) the timing, 2) Colon absolutely blows. He is TERRIBLE, and has been worse than Gibson this year. With no upside. I'd rather upset the random old man that is about to retire than the guy who, for better or worse, has given this organization 10+ years of his life.


to me it is not like we sent down a good pitcher to begin with. Those 10 years haven't exactly been good. He is the embodiment of how inconsistent this rotation and pitching staff has been. Sometimes you get lights out, sometimes lit up. From the same pitcher in the same week. I am shedding no tears for Gibson. I will shed no tears for Colon either. It sounds like the Twins may be trading a few guys by Monday and then Gibson if he's still here will get another chance. Colon will at worst finish out this season with the team and not be retained. I don't see the problem here. This team is going nowhere fast. If we have to choose between Gibson and Colon, I get your argument but I would be fine with Neither or someone else option.

Colon is not the future.
Gibson really isn't either.


I'm fine with neither, but right now there is NO good argument for Colon over Gibson to win NOW, and this team is still in it right NOW. They haven't sold yet. Gibson absolutely gives the team a (albeit small) better chance to win than Colon. That's our point.

Dustin, this team is not ready to compete against the big boys in the playoffs. Though technically we are still IN IT. We really aren't. Any time we play one of the top teams in the league it is a slaughter fest. Not at their level YET. and even if we were neither of these would help us get over that hump:

Gibson: 6.08 ERA, 94.2 IP, 62 K's, 1.711 WHIP
Colon: 8.00 ERA, 72.0 IP, 47 K's, 1.778 WHIP

These are not the only choices we have. Maybe Gibson needs a message sent...like it is time to start living up to your potential. If he's going to suck like this and still has options, he will be sent down.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:40:25 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		What other options do we have? Santiago? Gee? No thanks. I'll take Gibson over any of those. Again, play the best guys. Gibson's not great, but he's better than those options.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:45:26 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

What other options do we have? Santiago? Gee? No thanks. I'll take Gibson over any of those. Again, play the best guys. Gibson's not great, but he's better than those options.


I would give Gee a chance. Why not?

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:51:06 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

What other options do we have? Santiago? Gee? No thanks. I'll take Gibson over any of those. Again, play the best guys. Gibson's not great, but he's better than those options.


I would give Gee a chance. Why not?

Didn't we DFA that guy?

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 11:58:24 AM   
Mr. Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

What other options do we have? Santiago? Gee? No thanks. I'll take Gibson over any of those. Again, play the best guys. Gibson's not great, but he's better than those options.


I would give Gee a chance. Why not?

Didn't we DFA that guy?

Has been on a deal with an opt-out; hasn't opt'd yet.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 2:34:53 PM   
Sandman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

I cannot believe so many are sticking up for Gibson here. How short are your memories. He has been terrible for two years now.


He's pitched better of late than Bartolo Colon.

I hope you're right that he's going to build up and get more successful innings. I'm just not confident in either of them. I'd take the guy who has done better of late.

I see what you're saying. But like I said, part of the reason they signed colon was because of a Gibson's failures. Colon has pitched well enough to earn another start. Someone had to go. Gibson has had plenty of opportunities to earn his keep on this team. A couple good starts recently doesn't erase the entire season. It would be disrespectful to dump colon after two starts. If he implodes in the fifth inning in his next start, I'll support releasing him too.
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 2:53:11 PM   
Sandman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandman

Gibson has had plenty of opportunities to cement his spot on this roster, and he has failed. So what if he was good in his last start? What does his entire body of work this year look like? He's been terrible. They signed Colon in part BECAUSE Gibson had been awful. Colon has done enough to earn another start. Falvey doesn't owe Gibson a damn thing. And I highly doubt he's in their long term plans. When they trade Erv for prospects, Gibson will be back. I cannot believe so many are sticking up for Gibson here. How short are your memories. He has been terrible for two years now.


What the heck has Colon done? He's been worse than Gibson this year. At least Gibson has a bit of upside/stuff and age on his side. Colon has none of that.

IIRC, His first start he went 4IP 1ER before he tired. His second start he went 4 scoreless before he tired. Against two good teams I might add. That's enough to earn another start. Gibson has upside? Could have fooled me. I'd take Blackburn over Gibson, and I hated Blackburn. Atleast he challenged hitters and had atleast a smidgeon of competitiveness in him. Gibson is one of the most weak minded pitchers I've ever seen. Gibson has already been given more opportunities than most teams would give him, and I highly doubt Falvey considers him a part of the future.
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 3:07:24 PM   
Sandman

 

Posts: 518
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Status: offline 		Hell, I hope Colon pitches well the rest of the year and we bring him back next year to be the 5th starter. Break the record for wins by a Dominican with us. He'd be a good mentor too. And if he gets back in the groove, he can still be pretty good. He's more than a novelty act if he can find his game again. I think he might have something left in the tank. Don't forget, 2016 all star.

Gibson, I'm just weary of his act. He's been decent his last two starts and his era is still over 6. Atleast Colon has a track record. Time to move on from Gibson.
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 3:08:15 PM   
Mr. Ed


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From: Minne-so-ta
Status: offline 		GCL Twins gave up 3 in the 8th, 5 in the 9th, and lost 12-7

Lewis 2-4/R/2RBi/E(4), Robles 3-5/3R HR(2)/4RBI, Morel 1-4/BB/3R/SB(3), Camacho 2-5/3E(4)-1st baseman

P. Balan 3IP 4H/3R/3BB/3K
Jones 3IP H/2BB/3K
Molina IP 2K
V.Balan 0IP 2H/3R
Featherstone BS/0-1 1.2IP 2-2 IRS 5H/5R/2ER/BB
Maldonado .1IP H/K/2-2 IRS

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 3:48:31 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38432
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From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline 		Gibson was not sent down because he isn't the better pitcher.

The Twins needed to make room in the rotation for Jaime Garcia, so one of the five current guys had to go.
Santana and Berrios are going nowhere.
Mejia has shown signs that he can be very effective...so he stays
So it comes down to Colon or Gibson
and Gibson still has options this year.
So they sent Gibson down. He will be the first one called up when someone is traded, or gets hurt, or retires (Colon). It's not like Gibson is going to stay at AAA for the rest of the year. I don't think he'll be there more than a week personally.

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I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 3:50:04 PM   
Sandman

 

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Status: offline 		Exactly why the outrage is so misplaced.
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 5:07:50 PM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 88732
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Status: offline 		Eh, I have anger issues, so my outrage gets misplaced a lot

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 5:17:45 PM   
Sandman

 

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 6:40:51 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Status: offline 		Eliz won late this afternoon 5-1, first of 2.

Carrier 2-3/double/3RBI, Waltner 2-3/Solo HR(1)/SB(2), Bechtold 1-2/double/BB/2R

Sammons 2-0 5IP 3H/6K
Martinez 2IP 3H/R/

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 7:01:46 PM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		As SMF said a few days ago, this Colon love and "he has something left in the tank" stuff continues to boggle my mind how anyone can think that. And several on here do. Crazy.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 8:30:16 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Status: offline 		FTM 2-0 win Friday

Davis 2-4/R, Kennedy 2-4/double English 0-1/3BB/R/2SB(21)

B.Anderson 5-6 5.2IP 5H/BB/3K
Vasquez 2.1IP 0-2 IRS H/4K
Clay IP H/BB/3K/Save(8)

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 8:47:17 PM   
Sandman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

As SMF said a few days ago, this Colon love and "he has something left in the tank" stuff continues to boggle my mind how anyone can think that. And several on here do. Crazy.

1. All star last year
2. Yes, he's had an off year, but...
3. Maybe his 3 1/2 month slump is over, because...
4. He's looked very good until he tires, possibly because he hasn't pitched much in the last month. Needs to build himself back up.

The fact that he's pitched until 44 makes him a freak of nature. I don't believe he's gone from all star to completely washed up in that short of time. Sure, I could be wrong. But we signed him, so we owe him a chance, and based on his first two starts he has earned another start. Plus, after the trade deadline, we may need him if Erv & Garcia are dealt. Maybe you'd prefer Santiago in the 5th spot. Not me.
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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/28/2017 9:22:48 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Status: offline 		Roch scored 4 times in the 10th, won 5-1

Buxton 2-4(infield single to lead off the 10th)/Solo HR(1)/2R, Park 1-5/double/R/2RBi, Palka 1-5/triple/R/Rbi, Field 2-4/double/RBI

Melville 7IP 5H/R/BB/11K
Melotakis 2-0 2IP 2K
Baxendale IP BB

Eliz' second game was suspended in the second inning, Eliz up 3-0

CR is delayed in the sixth, up 3-1. Romero fanned 9 in 5 innings.

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