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Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Hue Jackson a possibility for offensive coordinator in Minnesota

This is not good, Not a winner from a winning system and a Zimmer cronnie, a yes man to Zimm is not what we need at all!



Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Expected there would be some rumblings about Hue Jackson and the Vikings’ OC job at some point; he worked with Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati, and Zimmer called him after the 2014 season to pick his brain, so he could better evaluate Norv Turner.



Hue Jackson is a good OC historically, it's just when they make him a HC when he begins to truly suck ass.




Don T in CO -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:53:16 PM)

What is the best case scenario for the Vikings’ offensive line this offseason?

By Matthew Coller | @MatthewColler
January 2, 2019 2:34 pm

While the Minnesota Vikings have plenty of positions to address this offseason, the spotlight will be on the offensive line in both free agency and the NFL draft.

Pro Football Focus ranked the Vikings’ offensive line 27th in pass blocking and 25th in run blocking. Without improvement in 2019, it would be difficult to see the Vikings gaining much traction offensively.

But how much better can they get with the options available? What is the best possible outcome for the Vikings’ O-line? Let’s have a look…

Tackle
What happened

The Vikings went into the season with veteran Riley Reiff and swing tackle Rashod Hill starting on the right side, which proved to be problematic. Hill gave up five sacks and 28 total QB pressures, per Pro Football Focus, in just 342 pass blocking snaps.

Rookie Brian O’Neill took over midway through the year and was a significant improvement, allowing 31 pressures in 531 pass snaps. Still there were struggles for the first-year player, who graded as PFF’s 47th of 62 qualifying tackles.

While Reiff notably struggled in a few games, especially against Buffalo while he was battling a foot injury and Chicago against Khalil Mack, he ultimately had a solid season, ranking 22nd by PFF.

Best case scenario for 2019

While Reiff isn’t going to put on a gold jacket someday, there isn’t anywhere close to a better option than him at left tackle for the Vikings next season. There isn’t an Andrew Whitworth-caliber free agent tackle on the market this offseason. If they wanted to move on, the Vikings could cut Reiff and save $8.8 million on the cap, but without an obvious upgrade, it’s hard to make a case for doing so.

The Vikings will simply have to bank on O’Neill advancing. He has terrific athleticism and showed an ability to recover that gives him a chance to become a very good player.

The best free agent options on the right side are Chicago veteran Bobby Massie (34th by PFF), Dolphins starter Ja’Wuan James (31st by PFF) and Washington swing tackle Ty Nsekhe. Neither would be an upgrade over O’Neill, assuming he takes another step forward.

The biggest question might be whether the Vikings want to keep Mike Remmers as a backup tackle. It is clear that Hill is an in-case-of-emergency type player. If either Reiff or O’Neill got hurt, the Vikings’ O-line could be right back where it started. While Remmers would be an expensive No. 3 at $6.7 million on the cap, he ranked 26th of 56 by PFF last season. He would make for a good insurance policy.

Guard

What happened

The retirement of Joe Berger punched a hole in a solid 2017 offensive line that they tried to fill by moving Mike Remmers to right guard rather than DeForest Buckner and Aaron Donald. It turned out Remmers was a much better tackle. He allowed the third most QB pressures of any guard in the NFL and graded 35th out of 54 guards with at least 550 snaps.

Tom Compton took over the starting left guard position following a season-ending injury to starter Nick Easton. Like Remmers, he was in a unique spot having never started a full season before in his career. Compton rated 33rd by PFF’s grading system and gave up 35 pressures.

Best case scenario for 2019

With Easton’s status unclear, it’s hard to say whether they can count on him coming back to full strength at the left guard spot next season. Cap space may be tight, but the Vikings should be in the running for starting Los Angeles Rams guard Roger Saffold, the eighth ranked guard by PFF. He and veteran Steelers guard Ramon Foster (14th) are the two unrestricted free agents who would be clear-cut upgrades.

If Easton is healthy, they should look to bring him back as well. His quickness gave the Vikings a weapon in the screen game last season that they lacked in 2018.

Even if the Vikings were able to return Easton and add either Saffold or Foster, they should still draft an offensive lineman with the 18th overall pick. Whichever rookie they selected could compete for a starting job or act as quality depth the way O’Neill did in Year 1.

Bringing back Compton as a free agent would make sense. As a backup, he has a solid history of filling in when called upon. The Vikings will need to stack up as much depth as possible.

Another option with Remmers could be trading him to a team that is desperate for a tackle.

Center
What happened

Pat Elflein’s sophomore season started out by missing all of training camp and the first three weeks of the season. When he returned, the former Ohio State start was forced to match up with Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox in consecutive weeks. He never appeared to get fully back to his 2017 form during the season and finished as the worst graded center by PFF in the NFL.

Best case scenario for 2019

Getting him a full offseason to get his strength back will be enormous for the talented young center. It was clear from his rookie year that Elflein has the talent to follow in the footsteps of the great Vikings centers of the past, but not when he started from so far behind.

Another aspect of Elflein’s struggles was the team’s schematic changes. Pat Shurmur used both Elflein and Easton’s athleticism to the Vikings’ advantage, but we rarely saw that in 2018. He wasn’t running out to the second level on screens or reach blocking on outside zone runs very often. Both of those things may have impacted his final grade.

The Vikings are unlikely to find themselves a better option than playing wait-and-see with Elflein. Odds are that he bounces back.




Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:53:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveR

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

To go from 13 wins, then add a franchise QB...then drop 5 wins from your total. There's absolutely nothing positive about that. This season was an abject failure.

Apparently, you are not a true fan if the season was not fulfilling for you.


Who said it was fullfilling? Last year was the bigger letdown for me since we were that much closer. I also don't tear my house down because one window leaks too. Nothing wrong with the foundation IMO.

You fix the problem that caused the leak and you prepare for the other leaks that you think that might come up next year.

The obvious leaks are the Oline, 3rd WR, and LB if they don't resign Barr. Tough calls are Rhodes/Waynes, Griffen, Richardson, and the TE position.


Mike Zimmer will have to lose a few bodies on defense in order to make the moves necessary to improve the most hapless O-line that any of us have ever witnessed.


Is it worth it/possible to get anything for Smith? I think he started to reach the stage of being-lauded-by-announcers-on-past-performance-and-is-not-that-amazing-anymore. It's purely my imagination that he doesn't like Zimmer anyway. When the camera was on Smith at times, he did not seem too into things.


To me that was exhaustion from being on the field most of the game. The dude was wiped out.




Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 4:39:04 PM)

No one is safe.

I think it's fair to have entertained a divorce with the PTB because of their ultimate failure but holy cow I have read - give up on Cousins, let Griff go, entertain trades for Rhodes, Smith, forget Richardson, Linvall is long in the tooth.




Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 4:45:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

No one is safe.

I think it's fair to have entertained a divorce with the PTB because of their ultimate failure but holy cow I have read - give up on Cousins, let Griff go, entertain trades for Rhodes, Smith, forget Richardson, Linvall is long in the tooth.


[sm=pimp2.gif] Like subconsciously I need to eliminate any chance I may succeed in life




Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 4:52:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Hue Jackson a possibility for offensive coordinator in Minnesota

This is not good, Not a winner from a winning system and a Zimmer cronnie, a yes man to Zimm is not what we need at all!


Man, I'm as about as pessimistic as I can be. I know we've got a lot of talent locked up and we can't be that far from winning a lot of playoff games but I've totally lost all faith in Zimmer. It just feels like there is zero chance we're going to have a top 10 offense to go with a good defense.

shit, piss, fukc




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:02:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Hue Jackson a possibility for offensive coordinator in Minnesota

This is not good, Not a winner from a winning system and a Zimmer cronnie, a yes man to Zimm is not what we need at all!



Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Expected there would be some rumblings about Hue Jackson and the Vikings’ OC job at some point; he worked with Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati, and Zimmer called him after the 2014 season to pick his brain, so he could better evaluate Norv Turner.



Hue Jackson is a good OC historically, it's just when they make him a HC when he begins to truly suck ass.


I guess the one positive might be that Zimmer would trust him enough not to meddle with the offense...




lylej -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:11:07 PM)

VIKES NEW OC??

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Hue-Jackson-Vikings-offensive-coordinator-search-127218580/?fbclid=IwAR1Z7JFlyo2IKhZq8bt4Wno2k9Lmx8JEq_jqGP4eU9PPrvF6keGtjb1E9eE




Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:13:47 PM)

IDK...to me we could return near the exact same team, with a bit better luck with health and one guard solution and the talent on the team could have us challenging for the NFC crown every year. What I think will hold us back - keeping us a middling team in and around basic bitch playoff contender is the team philosophy. Zim admitted to over coaching the defense and has not stopped going on about how he wants the offense to run...which if this is his hot seat year - he's going to want to go down swinging...with everything, as much as possible being done his way. What would lead to rising to the top to me would be a much looser approach. If I was packing this D I would press. Stretch the field on O and bring the heat on D. Win firing all your weapons not play it safe within this bubble of what statistically could/should work.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:17:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Hue Jackson a possibility for offensive coordinator in Minnesota

This is not good, Not a winner from a winning system and a Zimmer cronnie, a yes man to Zimm is not what we need at all!



Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Expected there would be some rumblings about Hue Jackson and the Vikings’ OC job at some point; he worked with Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati, and Zimmer called him after the 2014 season to pick his brain, so he could better evaluate Norv Turner.



Hue Jackson is a good OC historically, it's just when they make him a HC when he begins to truly suck ass.


I guess the one positive might be that Zimmer would trust him enough not to meddle with the offense...


I'm skeptical. The players and assistant coaches are rumored to have referred to Hue Jackson as 'You' Jackson (as in it's always you're fault and never his) and Michael Scott behind his back. Michael Scott being the fictional boss on The Office played by Steve Carrel who's trademark characteristic was how incredibly out of touch he was.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:20:35 PM)


Paul Charchian


@PaulCharchian
1h1 hour ago
More
Vikings fans: If they hire Hue Jackson, which team will you adopt as your favorite until he's gone?

29%Chiefs
07%Packers
29%Browns
35%I'll quit football

2,559 votes•22 hours left




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:21:09 PM)

Oh great! We are gonna bring in Hue Jackson huh? Things will surely improve now......




Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:34:51 PM)

Formula and philosophy. We're going to double down on it next year. It will work more than not and we'll be in playoff contention but won't be able to punch through.

We will lose games that will see guys saying - why aren't we running that (play) all day?! as we move the ball too late in the game.




joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 5:46:13 PM)

Hue Jackson...sigh.




CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:02:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Hue Jackson a possibility for offensive coordinator in Minnesota

This is not good, Not a winner from a winning system and a Zimmer cronnie, a yes man to Zimm is not what we need at all!



Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Expected there would be some rumblings about Hue Jackson and the Vikings’ OC job at some point; he worked with Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati, and Zimmer called him after the 2014 season to pick his brain, so he could better evaluate Norv Turner.

Great. Bring in another coach from a losing franchise.




CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:06:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveR

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

To go from 13 wins, then add a franchise QB...then drop 5 wins from your total. There's absolutely nothing positive about that. This season was an abject failure.

Apparently, you are not a true fan if the season was not fulfilling for you.


Who said it was fullfilling? Last year was the bigger letdown for me since we were that much closer. I also don't tear my house down because one window leaks too. Nothing wrong with the foundation IMO.

You fix the problem that caused the leak and you prepare for the other leaks that you think that might come up next year.

The obvious leaks are the Oline, 3rd WR, and LB if they don't resign Barr. Tough calls are Rhodes/Waynes, Griffen, Richardson, and the TE position.


Mike Zimmer will have to lose a few bodies on defense in order to make the moves necessary to improve the most hapless O-line that any of us have ever witnessed.


Is it worth it/possible to get anything for Smith? I think he started to reach the stage of being-lauded-by-announcers-on-past-performance-and-is-not-that-amazing-anymore. It's purely my imagination that he doesn't like Zimmer anyway. When the camera was on Smith at times, he did not seem too into things.

Harrison Smith could be excellent trade bait.




bongbong -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 7:46:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Hue Jackson...sigh.


No kidding--the guy who was openly mocked by a rookie QB and his fellow ex-players. Zimm shold be canned if he moves forward with the idea.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 7:53:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lylej

VIKES NEW OC??

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Hue-Jackson-Vikings-offensive-coordinator-search-127218580/?fbclid=IwAR1Z7JFlyo2IKhZq8bt4Wno2k9Lmx8JEq_jqGP4eU9PPrvF6keGtjb1E9eE


One reporter quoting another reporters tweet "I'm told Jackson reuniting with Mike Zimmer in Minnesota is possible" = "Hue Jackson named possible OC candidate for Vikings".

Enough to get these threads all atwitter though. [&:]




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 8:41:18 PM)

It sounds like Elflein was playing hurt, or at least he hadn't recovered fully from his injuries. A full off-season for him to recover and rehab might be very helpful. We know we have a keeper in O'Neil and I look forward to see him continue to physically develop. Reiff may not be an All Pro, but he is at least solid and serviceable. We can't replace the whole offensive line and we can start from those three players to rebuild upon. The rest seem to be backups. I would rather keep backups who have a chance to develop, but one veteran who can backup at several positions may not be the worst idea.

I believe Hughes will prove to be a really good starting cornerback and it was a bummer that he got hurt. Cornerback is a premium position and one that you want to have quality depth. Nevertheless, last April I screamed in disbelief when we passed on Daniels. He was the one I wanted and he was there for us to take. I'm sure that the team will not pass on a viably starting guard in the coming draft. It's too early to talk draft, though, for me. (I know I just did.) When the time comes I will get into it. I always do. I do like the off-season because it is the time for renewal of our hopes. Right now, I need a little more time to recover from the disappoint of this past season.

It does seem that the draft is a real high ender for DT's. A lot of them will go real high in the first round. I hope that the Vikings re-sign Sheldon Richardson. The fact that there are so many great prospects in the draft might make him just a bit more affordable, but I've heard that he will be our highest priority free agent and I support that. Anthony Barr will be gone for a team looking for an outside pass rushing linebacker in a 3-4 defense. I've been his fan, but I'm ready to cut him loose. The change might be good for his career and we might do better with Wilson, who seems to be a better tackler and a bit faster.

I do hope that the team comes up with a speedier running back. (as a backup to Cook) I look at what Kamara does for the Saints and I relish that. We need something to help our offense become more explosive, but of course we won't draft high for that kind of player. Still, a faster rb in a mid round might be in order. The draft is the best place for new running backs and I see that I just mentioned the draft again. We will be drafting higher this year than we have for a couple of seasons.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 9:06:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

It sounds like Elflein was playing hurt, or at least he hadn't recovered fully from his injuries. A full off-season for him to recover and rehab might be very helpful. We know we have a keeper in O'Neil and I look forward to see him continue to physically develop. Reiff may not be an All Pro, but he is at least solid and serviceable. We can't replace the whole offensive line and we can start from those three players to rebuild upon. The rest seem to be backups. I would rather keep backups who have a chance to develop, but one veteran who can backup at several positions may not be the worst idea.



I think he was playing like a player unable to maintain/better the conditioning in the offseason needed to compete at the top level




Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 10:13:58 PM)

Interesting stat:

Vikings: 4 losses on the road to teams with a combined home record of 28-4.




Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 11:04:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bongbong

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Hue Jackson...sigh.


No kidding--the guy who was openly mocked by a rookie QB and his fellow ex-players. Zimm shold be canned if he moves forward with the idea.



Yeah, not exactly a stimulating hire if it were to happen.

I’d look at whisking Bill Callahan away from Washington as OLine Coach...Cousins is already familiar with his schemes.

Hire a young OC who may be familiar with Callahan.

We have to get a hold of our OLine once and for all.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/3/2019 3:49:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Interesting stat:

Vikings: 4 losses on the road to teams with a combined home record of 28-4.



...and new orleans has a road record of 7-1.




SoMnFan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/3/2019 8:07:09 AM)

Barnwell's 2018 Lessons

No team is one player away

During their cap disaster era earlier this decade, the Saints seemed capable of convincing themselves that they were perennially one player or one fix away from winning the Super Bowl. On one hand, we've seen how good they can be with Drew Brees and a good defense over the past two seasons, but the reality was that they were always a few players away. After going 11-5 in 2013, they handed a huge contract to star Bills safety Jairus Byrd, even though the deal required an onerous structure to fit into an already tight cap. He was a disaster in New Orleans and is now out of football. The Saints didn't turn things around until they had a killer draft in 2017.

The Vikings had their killer drafts before making their big free-agent move, but it was fair to look at what they did in this offseason and view them as serious Super Bowl contenders. After making it to the NFC Championship Game and returning virtually everyone from a dominant defense, the Vikings raised their floor at quarterback by replacing Case Keenum with Kirk Cousins on a $28 million per year deal. I liked the move, and I wasn't the only one.

Sixteen games later, Vikings fans aren't as enthused. The goalposts have begun to move in the way they often do when teams aren't satisfied with their quarterback. After grumbling about Cousins' record in prime-time games, he seemed to satiate Vikings fans with a 342-yard, three-touchdown performance against the Packers in Week 12, but that wasn't enough.

The impotent offense led Mike Zimmer to fire offensive coordinator John DeFilippo in December, and while Cousins and replacement offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski helped push the offense to 68 points over two subsequent games, Vikings fans always seemed one rough series or quarter away from booing the offense again. In a must-win game on Sunday against the Bears, Cousins and the offense gave those fans plenty of opportunities to holler. Minnesota went three-and-out on its first four drives, racked up just three first downs by halftime, and finished with just 10 points.

With two fully guaranteed years left to go on Cousins' deal, the Vikings are basically tied in with him with precious little wiggle room to make changes for the foreseeable future. (There will certainly be Vikings fans dreaming of a scenario in which they trade Cousins and use the freed-up cap space to re-sign Teddy Bridgewater, and while it's theoretically possible given that Cousins' money is tied into a base salary, he would need to give his written consent for any trade.) After thinking they were one player away from a Super Bowl run, the Vikings are realizing that it isn't quite that simple.

Lesson: Be realistic about which elements of your team's play are likely to recur. During the offseason, fans often get hopeful about their team by counting on everything that went right to stay great while expecting everything that went wrong to improve. Teams can be just as optimistic internally. The Vikings had an incredibly healthy defense with an unsustainably great third-down rate in 2017. Their offensive line stayed healthy, and it allowed Keenum to post what would have been an impressive season for Cousins. I can't fault Minnesota for going after Cousins, but the front office probably now wishes it had re-signed someone like Bridgewater or Keenum and used the money to supplement the offensive line.




marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/3/2019 9:13:10 AM)

The Vikings have too much talent to get the head coach fired.

They show their talent most games, but not late season or playoff games, not when the game is on the line.

I would let go of Zimmer, Priefer, Cousins, Waynes, Compton, Treadwell. Keep Rhodes, Richardson, Rudy, Murray. Not sure on Barr, probably let him go, will probably get more money than we think, sorta like Bradford and Keenum last offseason.




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