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Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 11:07:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke To go from 13 wins, then add a franchise QB...then drop 5 wins from your total. There's absolutely nothing positive about that. This season was an abject failure. They had an opportunity to sign Keenum. That, IMO, was the biggest failure during the off-season. Kirk Cousins is not made for a team with a bad offensive line. Keenum was able to work some Houdini now and then with his legs and moxy. We are two years away from a decent offensive line, at-best. Cousins will be run out of town by 2020. He's set up to fail. If I were him, I'd walk right into Spielman's office and tell him if he isn't going to build the offensive line that I want $87-million a year. If you are ultimately going to be the fall guy, you might as well get paid for it. When the Vikings signed Cousins it was assumed by pretty much everyone that Spielman would upgrade the offensive line, because as you correctly point out, Cousins is not made for a team with a bad offensive line. The fact that Spielman did not adequately address the oline is the biggest failure of the offseason. You're also right that its a 2 year process. Had Spielman done the right thing last off-season, we would have had a decent line with further improvements coming in 2019. Total failure on his part. I love how people keep saying he failed to address the Oline. His efforts are substandard grabbing flotsam and jetsam but he's hardly ignored it. the Oline needs a lot of work but he did get O'Neill who looks like a find. You can't discount the death of Tony Sparano on the eve of the season throwing that unit into disarray. and Elflein playing hurt and Easton (who was better than average) being lost for the season. Compton, Jones moving Remmers to G, all bad ideas. But what was available that they could have squeezed under the cap? Sure I wish they would have done more...I am just curious what more they could have done. They need to prioritize the Oline this offseason, Finding a trade or FA, Draft draft draft and HIRE A TOP NOTCH COACH for the Oline or the same things will happen next year. I think "better than average" is a significant exaggeration - unless you're using a baseline of only Vikings linemen. Easton is probably a solid 6th lineman. Maybe an acceptable starter if you have really good players on either side of him. He's also finished the last 2 years on IR. That's a huge red flag. As a FA, I'm fine giving him a minimal contract and a chance to compete to make the team, but we better add at least 2 or 3 other OGs through the draft or free agency to compete with him. I never said just keep him and move on. Other posts have me saying draft Oline three times in the first three rounds. I've also stated we need to acquire a good G or two through FA and the Draft. and Yes Easton's injury history is concerning. I was just using that as an example of part of what went wrong this year. He wasn't half bad last year before getting hurt. So no consistency from one year to the next, coupled with the Death of a good Oline coach, and making some dumb decisions had this line regressing. They need to concentrate a good portion of their offseason on shoring up the personnell on the Oline and getting a top notch coach.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 11:11:05 AM)
The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 11:14:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings. I'm not sure you can get that for Griffin... Waynes, is he even signed? Richardson would be one I would try to keep. He would cost a lot though.

CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 11:26:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke To go from 13 wins, then add a franchise QB...then drop 5 wins from your total. There's absolutely nothing positive about that. This season was an abject failure. Apparently, you are not a true fan if the season was not fulfilling for you. Who said it was fullfilling? Last year was the bigger letdown for me since we were that much closer. I also don't tear my house down because one window leaks too. Nothing wrong with the foundation IMO. You fix the problem that caused the leak and you prepare for the other leaks that you think that might come up next year. The obvious leaks are the Oline, 3rd WR, and LB if they don't resign Barr. Tough calls are Rhodes/Waynes, Griffen, Richardson, and the TE position. Unfortunately, the people paid big bucks to make the decisions on personnel and coaching are not getting it done. And of course, the person at the top is Rick Spielman. The Wilf brothers seem to be in love with this guy for reasons none of us can possibly understand. Somebody, it may have been Todd, mentioned that it appears the owners are not as interested in winning a championship as he thought. And based upon the decision to leave things status quo, how can you argue that sentiment? Spielman has done enough presumably positive things to gain fan interest and loyalty. US Bank is a cash cow for the Wilf Brothers. They are no different than the Pohlad Brothers in that making a big profit is their primary objective. The Wilf Brothers differ in that they do spend money on payroll. That point cannot be argued. But how they spend the money is definitely a target for debate. In order to improve on offense and priimarly the O-line, the Vikings will have to figure out a plan of addition by subtraction. Mike Zimmer will have to lose a few bodies on defense in order to make the moves necessary to improve the most hapless O-line that any of us have ever witnessed.

The Happy Norseman -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 11:29:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke To go from 13 wins, then add a franchise QB...then drop 5 wins from your total. There's absolutely nothing positive about that. This season was an abject failure. They had an opportunity to sign Keenum. That, IMO, was the biggest failure during the off-season. Kirk Cousins is not made for a team with a bad offensive line. Keenum was able to work some Houdini now and then with his legs and moxy. We are two years away from a decent offensive line, at-best. Cousins will be run out of town by 2020. He's set up to fail. If I were him, I'd walk right into Spielman's office and tell him if he isn't going to build the offensive line that I want $87-million a year. If you are ultimately going to be the fall guy, you might as well get paid for it. When the Vikings signed Cousins it was assumed by pretty much everyone that Spielman would upgrade the offensive line, because as you correctly point out, Cousins is not made for a team with a bad offensive line. The fact that Spielman did not adequately address the oline is the biggest failure of the offseason. You're also right that its a 2 year process. Had Spielman done the right thing last off-season, we would have had a decent line with further improvements coming in 2019. Total failure on his part. I love how people keep saying he failed to address the Oline. His efforts are substandard grabbing flotsam and jetsam but he's hardly ignored it. the Oline needs a lot of work but he did get O'Neill who looks like a find. You can't discount the death of Tony Sparano on the eve of the season throwing that unit into disarray. and Elflein playing hurt and Easton (who was better than average) being lost for the season. Compton, Jones moving Remmers to G, all bad ideas. But what was available that they could have squeezed under the cap? Sure I wish they would have done more...I am just curious what more they could have done. They need to prioritize the Oline this offseason, Finding a trade or FA, Draft draft draft and HIRE A TOP NOTCH COACH for the Oline or the same things will happen next year. I think "better than average" is a significant exaggeration - unless you're using a baseline of only Vikings linemen. Easton is probably a solid 6th lineman. Maybe an acceptable starter if you have really good players on either side of him. He's also finished the last 2 years on IR. That's a huge red flag. As a FA, I'm fine giving him a minimal contract and a chance to compete to make the team, but we better add at least 2 or 3 other OGs through the draft or free agency to compete with him. I never said just keep him and move on. Other posts have me saying draft Oline three times in the first three rounds. I've also stated we need to acquire a good G or two through FA and the Draft. and Yes Easton's injury history is concerning. I was just using that as an example of part of what went wrong this year. He wasn't half bad last year before getting hurt. So no consistency from one year to the next, coupled with the Death of a good Oline coach, and making some dumb decisions had this line regressing. They need to concentrate a good portion of their offseason on shoring up the personnell on the Oline and getting a top notch coach. I would argue that signing Compton, O'Neill and Colby Gossett may not be "ignoring" the oline, but it is certainly approaching it in a very half-assed manner. Spielman got credit for trying to upgrade the line in 2017 after the fiasco in 2016, but that should have been step one in the rebuilding process. Instead, RS approached last offseason as if the line were fixed and he just needed to add players for depth. Pretty inexcusable. Regardless, we're all on the same page about what the team needs, but the question is will Spielman take the necessary, and now probably drastic, steps to fix it.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 11:34:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke To go from 13 wins, then add a franchise QB...then drop 5 wins from your total. There's absolutely nothing positive about that. This season was an abject failure. Apparently, you are not a true fan if the season was not fulfilling for you. Who said it was fullfilling? Last year was the bigger letdown for me since we were that much closer. I also don't tear my house down because one window leaks too. Nothing wrong with the foundation IMO. You fix the problem that caused the leak and you prepare for the other leaks that you think that might come up next year. The obvious leaks are the Oline, 3rd WR, and LB if they don't resign Barr. Tough calls are Rhodes/Waynes, Griffen, Richardson, and the TE position. Unfortunately, the people paid big bucks to make the decisions on personnel and coaching are not getting it done. And of course, the person at the top is Rick Spielman. The Wilf brothers seem to be in love with this guy for reasons none of us can possibly understand. Somebody, it may have been Todd, mentioned that it appears the owners are not as interested in winning a championship as he thought. And based upon the decision to leave things status quo, how can you argue that sentiment? Spielman has done enough presumably positive things to gain fan interest and loyalty. US Bank is a cash cow for the Wilf Brothers. They are no different than the Pohlad Brothers in that making a big profit is their primary objective. The Wilf Brothers differ in that they do spend money on payroll. That point cannot be argued. But how they spend the money is definitely a target for debate. In order to improve on offense and priimarly the O-line, the Vikings will have to figure out a plan of addition by subtraction. Mike Zimmer will have to lose a few bodies on defense in order to make the moves necessary to improve the most hapless O-line that any of us have ever witnessed. If you remember 2017....Keenum was the backup plan to Sam, Lat was the backup plan along with McKinnon to Cook. Those worked....the 2018 plan didn't go as well. As much as people talk about Keenum the Vikings missed the 2017 McKinnon. Need a 2nd back like him....don't know if it is Boone or not but he made a ton of plays last year.

Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 12:24:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Drafting a RB is totally independent from building an Oline....no matter what you want to pin on Cook. Quit the bs. Nothing is independent. You only have so much "currency". Spending a high pick on a RB means one less swing at an O-Lineman. Right. Don't get me wrong, I love Cook, I get as excited as anyone when he makes a big play. But this isn't about that. They also have Latavius. And he showed last year the offense can be successful without Cook. Drafting Cook was not a necessity.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 12:37:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Drafting a RB is totally independent from building an Oline....no matter what you want to pin on Cook. Quit the bs. Nothing is independent. You only have so much "currency". Spending a high pick on a RB means one less swing at an O-Lineman. Right. Don't get me wrong, I love Cook, I get as excited as anyone when he makes a big play. But this isn't about that. They also have Latavius. And he showed last year the offense can be successful without Cook. Drafting Cook was not a necessity. Coulda, Woulda Shoulda. What's past is past. Learn from it and move on. Now if we draft a RB high this year it will be stupid. Let's concentrate on the team's weaknesses. Most notably the Oline. I sit with great anticipation and trepidation for what RS will do to fix this problem.

Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 1:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Drafting a RB is totally independent from building an Oline....no matter what you want to pin on Cook. Quit the bs. Nothing is independent. You only have so much "currency". Spending a high pick on a RB means one less swing at an O-Lineman. Right. Don't get me wrong, I love Cook, I get as excited as anyone when he makes a big play. But this isn't about that. They also have Latavius. And he showed last year the offense can be successful without Cook. Drafting Cook was not a necessity. Coulda, Woulda Shoulda. What's past is past. Learn from it and move on. Now if we draft a RB high this year it will be stupid. Let's concentrate on the team's weaknesses. Most notably the Oline. I sit with great anticipation and trepidation for what RS will do to fix this problem. But that's what I'm saying. The Oline was a known weakness when Cook was drafted. I doubt management's ability to learn from mistakes.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 1:16:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings. i'd let barr go - he's going to command a lot of money and he's best utilized in a 3-4 defensive scheme...i think wilson is a very small step backward...we sign a free agent lb and draft one in the 2nd/3rd round.... if barr has any trade value via transition tag or whatever i'd try to develop that.... trade barr, sendejo, griffen and rhodes/waynes to a team ready to make a run - a team with cap space and in need of a short-term, but solid reload on defense...those four players for a 2nd in '19 and a 3rd/4th in '20.... i bet that we could trade waynes to the raiders for one of their guards....

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 1:17:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Drafting a RB is totally independent from building an Oline....no matter what you want to pin on Cook. Quit the bs. Nothing is independent. You only have so much "currency". Spending a high pick on a RB means one less swing at an O-Lineman. Right. Don't get me wrong, I love Cook, I get as excited as anyone when he makes a big play. But this isn't about that. They also have Latavius. And he showed last year the offense can be successful without Cook. Drafting Cook was not a necessity. I won't say drafting any one person is a "necessity", but we needed more than just Murray at the time. Murray was coming off surgery when we signed him. We had no idea how we would actually play. And he started very slow, you could tell he wasn't 100%. IMO He could not have taken starter snaps game one. We basically had Mckinnon then, and he was oft injured and more of a 3rd down back. So we needed more help at that time. Spielman thought Cook and the draft was the best option. He very well may have been, I'd have to go back to see FA RBs available and how much they signed for. I still don't know of the mysterious lineman that would have been a better choice/value at the time Cook was draft.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 1:32:47 PM)
Speilman isn't no quick learner. Drafted 2 kickers and a punter, only one still in football and that is on another team. Did he say Ponder was the most NFL ready QB in draft? He might have also said that about Treadwell (not as sure on that one). Been in the Vikings front office a long time, produced one playoff win in all that time, and needed massive luck for that one win. Obviously Zimm and Speilman are back next year. If next year sucks I can't imagine there will be a lot of support for them in 2020 among the fan base. Big year coming up for Zimm and Speilman. The shine is gone. Currently the Vikings own Minnesota, their tickets on the secondary market are some of the most expensive in the NFL. I don't think the Wilfs will want to have too many bad seasons. In this day and age fans seem to find something else to do and don't come back very easily.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 1:42:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings. i'd let barr go - he's going to command a lot of money and he's best utilized in a 3-4 defensive scheme...i think wilson is a very small step backward...we sign a free agent lb and draft one in the 2nd/3rd round.... if barr has any trade value via transition tag or whatever i'd try to develop that.... trade barr, sendejo, griffen and rhodes/waynes to a team ready to make a run - a team with cap space and in need of a short-term, but solid reload on defense...those four players for a 2nd in '19 and a 3rd/4th in '20.... i bet that we could trade waynes to the raiders for one of their guards.... Again, that's a non-starter. The transition tag only makes him an RFA, meaning we can match other offers. But it also comes with a 1 year, roughly 15M price tag that will count immediately against our cap. handicapping ourselves while we wait to see if he accepts an offer with another team. Its not really a way to force a trade. Its more likely just going to mean we'd lose him to another team, but tie up our finances in the process.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 2:10:36 PM)
I am thankful Carlson missed the kick that would have had the Vikings in the playoffs. It saved a likely embarrassing playoff loss, and it means a better chance of a new HC sooner. I liked the Cousin's signing at the time because of his ability to make certain throws, has a great arm. I thought he might lead a SB drive in year 2, but I no longer believe that, not with this coaching staff. I also have a lot more doubt about Cousins after seeing him play. His team falls behind early, then he gets TDs when the other team softens up a little bit, then he falls short as the other team tightens up a little bit to hold onto their lead. I doubt things get much better with Kirk. They will have a softer schedule next year, so maybe they win 9 or 10 games, and then get bounced in the playoffs. Chicago now has a HC, and if GB gets one, they'll win the division, then the Vikes will be in 3rd, maybe even 4th place.

Ush -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 2:19:35 PM)
Happy New Year everyone. Been a long time as I mostly read now and don’t post much anymore. I had dropped off after having a kid and getting busy at work. Last season’s debacle in Philly took a lot out of me. I’m still as diehard as ever but even more pessimistic after watching this team fail in big situations over and over again. While I was thrilled with the Minneapolis Miracle, part of it was ruined for me because of the way we almost, and should have, blew that game. I still bleed purple, but try not to get my hopes up. This will be an interesting offseason for the Vikes after an incredibly disappointing 2018. This will, most likely, be the last chance for Zim/Spielman in my opinion. Like most, I think our offensive line is the major weakness on this team and it needs to be fixed quickly. One thing I’d take a look at is Elflein. If there is a great C in the draft that is graded much higher than G, I’d consider moving Elflein to G where he played his sophomore and junior seasons in college and was successful. That would give us a little flexibility to fix the interior. O’Neill was good for a rookie at RT so I think we are set there. With Elflein hopefully stronger with a full offseason of workouts ahead of him that should take care of another spot. Easton will be back but I wouldn’t count on him so I’d still look at 2-3 interior lineman via draft/free agency. I think we need to ride with Reiff and hope better G play helps him. If not, jettison him next season. Remmers needs to take a pay cut or he is gone. If he takes a cut, make him the backup RT in case something happens to O’Neill. That makes 2 new starters and hopefully a rejuvenated Elflein. I’m not sure how else to do it with our limited cap space even after cutting guys. After that we need a 3rd WR, an athletic TE and I would love to see a stud LB fall into our lap somehow. I think Wilson can replace Barr considering it would be tough to afford what Barr will command. I think Waynes is more of a priority than Barr with Rhodes injury problems and Hughes coming off of ACL surgery. Bring back Bailey and hope he has solved his kicking problems. I’d see if Marvin Lewis would be willing to come in and run the defense so that Zimmer can be a head coach. I’m not sold on Stefanski and he didn’t seem to do much to change our problems on offense except when we were playing woeful teams like Miami. Maybe he can be better with a full offseason and better line play but I’m not sure. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents. We have some serious playmakers on offense with Diggs, Theilen and Cook. We need to do a better job of getting the ball in their hands. Adding a good 3rd WR can also help open up things. That being said, none of that works without great blocking/protection considering our QB’s limitations. One more thing, if Cousins was about the winning and not the money, he’d be willing to restructure to help build the oline. Pretty sure that won’t happen, but it would go a long way towards winning the fans back if he would offer that. Otherwise, the contract is going to become the biggest story on this team unless he plays lights out. I hope everyone is well!

Ush -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 2:23:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I am thankful Carlson missed the kick that would have had the Vikings in the playoffs. It saved a likely embarrassing playoff loss, and it means a better chance of a new HC sooner. I liked the Cousin's signing at the time because of his ability to make certain throws, has a great arm. I thought he might lead a SB drive in year 2, but I no longer believe that, not with this coaching staff. I also have a lot more doubt about Cousins after seeing him play. His team falls behind early, then he gets TDs when the other team softens up a little bit, then he falls short as the other team tightens up a little bit to hold onto their lead. I doubt things get much better with Kirk. They will have a softer schedule next year, so maybe they win 9 or 10 games, and then get bounced in the playoffs. Chicago now has a HC, and if GB gets one, they'll win the division, then the Vikes will be in 3rd, maybe even 4th place. Funny but, for the first time ever, I felt like if we made the playoffs we’d get blown out the next week. Our oline in CHI, with Cousins playing like he was, was a recipe for disaster and embarrassment. I usually have hope no matter who we were playing. In that last game, I didn’t have any hope that we could go on the road to CHI and win.

CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 2:55:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings. i'd let barr go - he's going to command a lot of money and he's best utilized in a 3-4 defensive scheme...i think wilson is a very small step backward...we sign a free agent lb and draft one in the 2nd/3rd round.... if barr has any trade value via transition tag or whatever i'd try to develop that.... trade barr, sendejo, griffen and rhodes/waynes to a team ready to make a run - a team with cap space and in need of a short-term, but solid reload on defense...those four players for a 2nd in '19 and a 3rd/4th in '20.... i bet that we could trade waynes to the raiders for one of their guards.... Why should Barr demand a lot of money? He is an average LB.

CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:02:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall Speilman isn't no quick learner. Drafted 2 kickers and a punter, only one still in football and that is on another team. Did he say Ponder was the most NFL ready QB in draft? He might have also said that about Treadwell (not as sure on that one). Been in the Vikings front office a long time, produced one playoff win in all that time, and needed massive luck for that one win. Obviously Zimm and Speilman are back next year. If next year sucks I can't imagine there will be a lot of support for them in 2020 among the fan base. Big year coming up for Zimm and Speilman. The shine is gone. Currently the Vikings own Minnesota, their tickets on the secondary market are some of the most expensive in the NFL. I don't think the Wilfs will want to have too many bad seasons. In this day and age fans seem to find something else to do and don't come back very easily. The fan base in Minnesota demands nothing compared to other markets. In all fairness, the fans share much of the blame for the incompetence of this aging franchise.

Ragnarök -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:02:57 PM)
Report: Hue Jackson a possibility for offensive coordinator in Minnesota This is not good, Not a winner from a winning system and a Zimmer cronnie, a yes man to Zimm is not what we need at all!

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:14:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings. i'd let barr go - he's going to command a lot of money and he's best utilized in a 3-4 defensive scheme...i think wilson is a very small step backward...we sign a free agent lb and draft one in the 2nd/3rd round.... if barr has any trade value via transition tag or whatever i'd try to develop that.... trade barr, sendejo, griffen and rhodes/waynes to a team ready to make a run - a team with cap space and in need of a short-term, but solid reload on defense...those four players for a 2nd in '19 and a 3rd/4th in '20.... i bet that we could trade waynes to the raiders for one of their guards.... Why should Barr demand a lot of money? He is an average LB. it wouldn't surprise me if there's a 3-4 team out there that'll pay him $10-12m/yr thinking he'll become the next khalil mack/von miller....

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:15:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ragnarök Report: Hue Jackson a possibility for offensive coordinator in Minnesota This is not good, Not a winner from a winning system and a Zimmer cronnie, a yes man to Zimm is not what we need at all! Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib Expected there would be some rumblings about Hue Jackson and the Vikings’ OC job at some point; he worked with Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati, and Zimmer called him after the 2014 season to pick his brain, so he could better evaluate Norv Turner.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:27:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings. i'd let barr go - he's going to command a lot of money and he's best utilized in a 3-4 defensive scheme...i think wilson is a very small step backward...we sign a free agent lb and draft one in the 2nd/3rd round.... if barr has any trade value via transition tag or whatever i'd try to develop that.... trade barr, sendejo, griffen and rhodes/waynes to a team ready to make a run - a team with cap space and in need of a short-term, but solid reload on defense...those four players for a 2nd in '19 and a 3rd/4th in '20.... i bet that we could trade waynes to the raiders for one of their guards.... Again, that's a non-starter. The transition tag only makes him an RFA, meaning we can match other offers. But it also comes with a 1 year, roughly 15M price tag that will count immediately against our cap. handicapping ourselves while we wait to see if he accepts an offer with another team. Its not really a way to force a trade. Its more likely just going to mean we'd lose him to another team, but tie up our finances in the process. if we just let him sign with another team would we most likely get a 3rd round comp pick in 2020?....

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:38:01 PM)
. . Vikings Corner@VikingsCorner The #Vikings have signed WR Jeff Badet, T Adam Bisnowaty, LB Reshard Cliett, DT Curtis Cothran, C Cornelius Edison, TE Cole Hikutini, CB Jalen Myrick, T Storm Norton, DE Ifeadi Odenigbo and RB Roc Thomas to reserve/futures contracts.

SteveR -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:41:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke To go from 13 wins, then add a franchise QB...then drop 5 wins from your total. There's absolutely nothing positive about that. This season was an abject failure. Apparently, you are not a true fan if the season was not fulfilling for you. Who said it was fullfilling? Last year was the bigger letdown for me since we were that much closer. I also don't tear my house down because one window leaks too. Nothing wrong with the foundation IMO. You fix the problem that caused the leak and you prepare for the other leaks that you think that might come up next year. The obvious leaks are the Oline, 3rd WR, and LB if they don't resign Barr. Tough calls are Rhodes/Waynes, Griffen, Richardson, and the TE position. Mike Zimmer will have to lose a few bodies on defense in order to make the moves necessary to improve the most hapless O-line that any of us have ever witnessed. Is it worth it/possible to get anything for Smith? I think he started to reach the stage of being-lauded-by-announcers-on-past-performance-and-is-not-that-amazing-anymore. It's purely my imagination that he doesn't like Zimmer anyway. When the camera was on Smith at times, he did not seem too into things.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 3:41:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The first two tough moves I would make is getting a mid round pick for Griffen and the same for Waynes or Rhodes. We have younger replacements for both. (Weatherly/Holmes/Idfen&&&& and Hill/Alexander). Then resign Barr---I like Wilson but he doesn't have the dominating ability of Barr. I don't keep Richardson, Sendejo, Johnson, Compton, Jones....lots of salary savings. i'd let barr go - he's going to command a lot of money and he's best utilized in a 3-4 defensive scheme...i think wilson is a very small step backward...we sign a free agent lb and draft one in the 2nd/3rd round.... if barr has any trade value via transition tag or whatever i'd try to develop that.... trade barr, sendejo, griffen and rhodes/waynes to a team ready to make a run - a team with cap space and in need of a short-term, but solid reload on defense...those four players for a 2nd in '19 and a 3rd/4th in '20.... i bet that we could trade waynes to the raiders for one of their guards.... Again, that's a non-starter. The transition tag only makes him an RFA, meaning we can match other offers. But it also comes with a 1 year, roughly 15M price tag that will count immediately against our cap. handicapping ourselves while we wait to see if he accepts an offer with another team. Its not really a way to force a trade. Its more likely just going to mean we'd lose him to another team, but tie up our finances in the process. if we just let him sign with another team would we most likely get a 3rd round comp pick in 2020?.... Probably? But no one knows the secret formula, and it depends as much on who we sign as who we lose. But mostly, the idea of trading away guys that you're likely to lose always sounds amazing to fans, but rarely happens in real life.

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