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kgdabom -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 12:12:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Spielman was asked in...
in post draft interview why he didn’t draft more OLmen early. He said that the last game against the Bears proved to him that Collins, Samia and Udoh were ready to compete for starting positions and he didn’t think it wise to invest in more that 1 OLman early. He said Cleveland was an OLman they coveted and could compete at OG or LOT giving them options at both positions.

It sounded to me like Spielman and Zimmer had more confidence in immediate help from our 1 yr PROs than rookies with limited time due to coronavirus.

GOOD...let's see what we have. I think Udoh and Samia are going to be a lot better than some believe on here.

[:D]



Todd M -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 12:49:09 PM)

NFL Lance Zeirline (sp)...what the vikes needed were CB's and they got 2 of them...Jeff Gladney in the 2nd...who I think has 1st round talent...


Thanks Lance. [&o] Do your damn homework!



kgdabom -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 1:49:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

NFL Lance Zeirline (sp)...what the vikes needed were CB's and they got 2 of them...Jeff Gladney in the 2nd...who I think has 1st round talent...


Thanks Lance. [&o] Do your damn homework!

Yeah he messed that up a little. Gladney was our 2nd pick barely in the first round. With the CBs after Okudah and Henderson the only thing the analysts agreed on was disagreeing. Fulton who many had 3rd wasn't selected until the end of the second round. There was a pack of Gladney, Terrell, Igbinoghene, J Johnson, Trevon Diggs. I might be forgetting somebody and Arnette who none of the analysts had going in the first went 19 overall. Dantzler who many projected in the same range as Arnette went 70 picks later. At OT there was supposed to be a tight grouping of Jackson, Jones, and Cleveland but Jackson went 18, Cleveland went 58 and a shocker Jones not until the 3rd round.

Zierlein is a tricky one. That's how it's spelled.



jbusse -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 2:13:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

NFL Lance Zeirline (sp)...what the vikes needed were CB's and they got 2 of them...Jeff Gladney in the 2nd...who I think has 1st round talent...


Thanks Lance. [&o] Do your damn homework!

Bear in mind that Zierlein is credited as the analyst on the NFL.com website for a good fraction of the profiles of all of the draft picks. If true, his head must be spinning.



Tom Sykes -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 2:59:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Spielman was asked in...
in post draft interview why he didn’t draft more OLmen early. He said that the last game against the Bears proved to him that Collins, Samia and Udoh were ready to compete for starting positions and he didn’t think it wise to invest in more that 1 OLman early. He said Cleveland was an OLman they coveted and could compete at OG or LOT giving them options at both positions.

It sounded to me like Spielman and Zimmer had more confidence in immediate help from our 1 yr PROs than rookies with limited time due to coronavirus.

GOOD...let's see what we have. I think Udoh and Samia are going to be a lot better than some believe on here.

[:D]

Thinking that Samia, Udoh and Dozier are going to constitute anything more than mediocrity is complete homerism:

... it is watching Spielman '... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result' – using one pick in the first 3 rounds as a solution to the problem that has plagued us for years. It hasn't worked. He simply hasn't put enough resources into it / thrown enough solid talent at the OL to get more talent to stick.

... it is drafting an OT in the second rd. and then no other OL until the 6th rd when your two OG positions are absurdly devoid of proven starting talent ... and saying with a straight face after the draft that Cleveland, who has only started at LT in college and who is 'in dire need of additional mass and functional strength' will contribute in any substantive way this season to the G mix.

... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

... it is watching your team get absolutely ragdolled in our final game last year and thinking last year's back-ups are going to magically jump in and play superior to the starters they couldn't beat the previous year.

I think I have come to the realization we are never going to have a good OL while Spielman is GM. Hey, we proved last year you can 'get by' with a mediocre (at best) OL and win a playoff game so there's that.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 3:16:37 PM)

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.



TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 3:30:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

The bottom line is that there are better players to be selected in the 70's than there are on day 3. I think Samia has the goods to be a legit starting G in the NFL, but until he actually proves it, Spielman shouldn't be putting all of his eggs in that basket. Keep upgrading the talent in an area of need until it is no longer an area of need.

This draft could have been so much more.



kevinemmer -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 3:40:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Spielman was asked in...
in post draft interview why he didn’t draft more OLmen early. He said that the last game against the Bears proved to him that Collins, Samia and Udoh were ready to compete for starting positions and he didn’t think it wise to invest in more that 1 OLman early. He said Cleveland was an OLman they coveted and could compete at OG or LOT giving them options at both positions.

It sounded to me like Spielman and Zimmer had more confidence in immediate help from our 1 yr PROs than rookies with limited time due to coronavirus.

GOOD...let's see what we have. I think Udoh and Samia are going to be a lot better than some believe on here.

[:D]

Thinking that Samia, Udoh and Dozier are going to constitute anything more than mediocrity is complete homerism:

... it is watching Spielman '... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result' – using one pick in the first 3 rounds as a solution to the problem that has plagued us for years. It hasn't worked. He simply hasn't put enough resources into it / thrown enough solid talent at the OL to get more talent to stick.

... it is drafting an OT in the second rd. and then no other OL until the 6th rd when your two OG positions are absurdly devoid of proven starting talent ... and saying with a straight face after the draft that Cleveland, who has only started at LT in college and who is 'in dire need of additional mass and functional strength' will contribute in any substantive way this season to the G mix.

... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

... it is watching your team get absolutely ragdolled in our final game last year and thinking last year's back-ups are going to magically jump in and play superior to the starters they couldn't beat the previous year.

I think I have come to the realization we are never going to have a good OL while Spielman is GM. Hey, we proved last year you can 'get by' with a mediocre (at best) OL and win a playoff game so there's that.


I agree Tom,

Not a great Interior O-Line Draft, but C'mon Man!

At least snag Bartsch or Badass late, make an effort for Hennessy....

Gut punch. [sm=giving-up.gif]



Mark Anderson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 3:57:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

The bottom line is that there are better players to be selected in the 70's than there are on day 3. I think Samia has the goods to be a legit starting G in the NFL, but until he actually proves it, Spielman shouldn't be putting all of his eggs in that basket. Keep upgrading the talent in an area of need until it is no longer an area of need.

This draft could have been so much more.

I think Udoh has more or equal physical talent to anyone on Day 3.

Person or Kline could also be signed.



Mark Anderson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:01:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

The bottom line is that there are better players to be selected in the 70's than there are on day 3. I think Samia has the goods to be a legit starting G in the NFL, but until he actually proves it, Spielman shouldn't be putting all of his eggs in that basket. Keep upgrading the talent in an area of need until it is no longer an area of need.

This draft could have been so much more.

The 3 OLine guys we drafted fit the mobile zone scheme we are running.



kgdabom -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:04:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Spielman was asked in...
in post draft interview why he didn’t draft more OLmen early. He said that the last game against the Bears proved to him that Collins, Samia and Udoh were ready to compete for starting positions and he didn’t think it wise to invest in more that 1 OLman early. He said Cleveland was an OLman they coveted and could compete at OG or LOT giving them options at both positions.

It sounded to me like Spielman and Zimmer had more confidence in immediate help from our 1 yr PROs than rookies with limited time due to coronavirus.

GOOD...let's see what we have. I think Udoh and Samia are going to be a lot better than some believe on here.

[:D]

Thinking that Samia, Udoh and Dozier are going to constitute anything more than mediocrity is complete homerism:

... it is watching Spielman '... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result' – using one pick in the first 3 rounds as a solution to the problem that has plagued us for years. It hasn't worked. He simply hasn't put enough resources into it / thrown enough solid talent at the OL to get more talent to stick.

... it is drafting an OT in the second rd. and then no other OL until the 6th rd when your two OG positions are absurdly devoid of proven starting talent ... and saying with a straight face after the draft that Cleveland, who has only started at LT in college and who is 'in dire need of additional mass and functional strength' will contribute in any substantive way this season to the G mix.

... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

... it is watching your team get absolutely ragdolled in our final game last year and thinking last year's back-ups are going to magically jump in and play superior to the starters they couldn't beat the previous year.

I think I have come to the realization we are never going to have a good OL while Spielman is GM. Hey, we proved last year you can 'get by' with a mediocre (at best) OL and win a playoff game so there's that.

Tom have you ever heard about a thing called player development. It actually happens. Players improve from their rookie years in their 2nd-3rd-4th. Of course there is no guarantee that Udoh and Samia have improved, but there's no guarantee that they haven't. We used one very high draft pick on OL in a player that the Vikings believe can be capable at both guard and tackle. Could we have drafted another somewhat early? Certainly, and Hennessy or Jackson may be better than Brandel and Hinton, but then you're hoping that Dantzler will be available at 105 and that's assuming the trade partner accepted 117 to trade back rather than requiring 105. At best 117 would have to be gone already in the trade up and we no longer have 130. It all has a snowball effect.



Todd M -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:12:45 PM)

All some people know is that all the answers were there and trading partners available throughout willing to make good deals so we could get whatever we needed.



Todd M -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:14:42 PM)

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.



Mark Anderson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:19:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.

We loved Elf and Kalil(high draft picks) after their rookie years.

For all we know, Hinton might be the best of the bunch.



Mark Anderson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:23:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.

Another thing.

Say we go heavy on Oline and only grab 1 CB in 1st 4 rounds. Then, when Rodgers, Stafford and the NFC South light us up through the air, the armchair draftniks would be complaining about that.



unome -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:24:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

The bottom line is that there are better players to be selected in the 70's than there are on day 3. I think Samia has the goods to be a legit starting G in the NFL, but until he actually proves it, Spielman shouldn't be putting all of his eggs in that basket. Keep upgrading the talent in an area of need until it is no longer an area of need.

This draft could have been so much more.

I think Udoh has more or equal physical talent to anyone on Day 3.

Person or Kline could also be signed.


Or Fluker. The constant chord among all the whiners is that we needed another Guard. Why would some Third or Fourth Round Guard straight out of college in an offseason probably messed up by shutdowns outplay Samia or Udoh who have a year in the system or Cleveland who was drafted in the 2nd round? Whatever, some people have to complain because the Vikings did not do exactly what they wanted. I would have drafted Muti as a flier in the 5th. I guess I could complain about that. Whatever, it is what it is.



Tom Sykes -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:25:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.

Some people just can’t think for themselves and prefer their knowledge to be spoonfed.



Mark Anderson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:30:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.

Some people just can’t think for themselves and prefer their knowledge to be spoonfed.

But, the idea that we don't spend high draft picks on OLine is wrong. Elf, O'Neill, Bradbury, Cleveland.



unome -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:30:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.


In some ways, they do themselves in. They read a bunch of info pre-draft and watch 10 college games and think they are Mel Kiper Jr. But they do not see the progression of players on the team and they do not know what the coaches think or are looking for. I am just happy that it looks like we executed the draft with a real plan. If the plan does not work later on, my guess it will be more to do with not signing a veteran Guard as opposed to who we drafted and hoped would come in as a rookie in a messed up offseason to save the day. If someone is worried about the O-Line, which is certainly reasonable, sign a veteran Guard. That makes more sense as an actual solution than draft and pray.



unome -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:32:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Some people just can’t think for themselves and prefer their knowledge to be spoonfed.


I think for myself and right now I am thinking you are kind of an -------.



Tom Sykes -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:39:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

The bottom line is that there are better players to be selected in the 70's than there are on day 3. I think Samia has the goods to be a legit starting G in the NFL, but until he actually proves it, Spielman shouldn't be putting all of his eggs in that basket. Keep upgrading the talent in an area of need until it is no longer an area of need.

This draft could have been so much more.

I think Udoh has more or equal physical talent to anyone on Day 3.

Person or Kline could also be signed.


Or Fluker. The constant chord among all the whiners is that we needed another Guard. Why would some Third or Fourth Round Guard straight out of college in an offseason probably messed up by shutdowns outplay Samia or Udoh who have a year in the system or Cleveland who was drafted in the 2nd round? Whatever, some people have to complain because the Vikings did not do exactly what they wanted. I would have drafted Muti as a flier in the 5th. I guess I could complain about that. Whatever, it is what it is.

I have consistently stated that I am happy with many of the picks and the draft in general. A few of the picks that I didn’t like initially - like Wonnum ... reading more about them afterwards definitely pushed me over to the hopeful side. Some of the picks / strategy I disagree with.

Not all of us toe a line like Samia groupies.



Tom Sykes -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:41:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Some people just can’t think for themselves and prefer their knowledge to be spoonfed.


I think for myself and right now I am thinking you are kind of an -------.

Ef you too. I was responding to someone else that made it personal.



Dana Turner -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 4:52:14 PM)

I can understand some of the angst about the draft, particularly not drafting a guard that could come in and start right away, but there were only a couple of them and they were gone. True, there were a couple projects that people have fallen in love with, Muti, Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch, but none of them were coming in to start day one. We have been developing guys for a couple years now and it's time for them to step in and get to work. Ruiz would have been a starter on day one, he was gone. Really, if the offensive line coach was in a panic about the guard spot, I think it would have been a higher priority than it was. We will see if it all shakes out, but as of now, there simply isn't enough here to get too worked up over. It looks like they had a pretty successful draft, we will know more in a couple of years.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 5:04:33 PM)

My view is that I'm happy about the draft, but also honest enough to say I really don't know. Time will tell. Let's give it some time and also see what's next for the off-season. They're not done yet.



Dave Odle -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/28/2020 5:16:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.

Another thing.

Say we go heavy on Oline and only grab 1 CB in 1st 4 rounds. Then, when Rodgers, Stafford and the NFC South light us up through the air, the armchair draftniks would be complaining about that.


Really good point. We needed a lot. There was no perfect answer when you're missing LT1, RG1, CB1, and starters at the DT and OLB position. Then CB3 and QB2.

I was really surprised at the steep drop off of QB talent past the first 3 or 4.



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