quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.

Some people just can’t think for themselves and prefer their knowledge to be spoonfed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Some people just can’t think for themselves and prefer their knowledge to be spoonfed.

I think for myself and right now I am thinking you are kind of an -------.

Ef you too. I was responding to someone else that made it personal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Spielman was asked in...
in post draft interview why he didn’t draft more OLmen early. He said that the last game against the Bears proved to him that Collins, Samia and Udoh were ready to compete for starting positions and he didn’t think it wise to invest in more that 1 OLman early. He said Cleveland was an OLman they coveted and could compete at OG or LOT giving them options at both positions.

It sounded to me like Spielman and Zimmer had more confidence in immediate help from our 1 yr PROs than rookies with limited time due to coronavirus.

GOOD...let's see what we have. I think Udoh and Samia are going to be a lot better than some believe on here.

[:D]

Thinking that Samia, Udoh and Dozier are going to constitute anything more than mediocrity is complete homerism:

... it is watching Spielman '... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result' – using one pick in the first 3 rounds as a solution to the problem that has plagued us for years. It hasn't worked. He simply hasn't put enough resources into it / thrown enough solid talent at the OL to get more talent to stick.

... it is drafting an OT in the second rd. and then no other OL until the 6th rd when your two OG positions are absurdly devoid of proven starting talent ... and saying with a straight face after the draft that Cleveland, who has only started at LT in college and who is 'in dire need of additional mass and functional strength' will contribute in any substantive way this season to the G mix.

... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

... it is watching your team get absolutely ragdolled in our final game last year and thinking last year's back-ups are going to magically jump in and play superior to the starters they couldn't beat the previous year.

I think I have come to the realization we are never going to have a good OL while Spielman is GM. Hey, we proved last year you can 'get by' with a mediocre (at best) OL and win a playoff game so there's that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

Spielman was asked in...
in post draft interview why he didn’t draft more OLmen early. He said that the last game against the Bears proved to him that Collins, Samia and Udoh were ready to compete for starting positions and he didn’t think it wise to invest in more that 1 OLman early. He said Cleveland was an OLman they coveted and could compete at OG or LOT giving them options at both positions.

It sounded to me like Spielman and Zimmer had more confidence in immediate help from our 1 yr PROs than rookies with limited time due to coronavirus.

GOOD...let's see what we have. I think Udoh and Samia are going to be a lot better than some believe on here.

[:D]

Thinking that Samia, Udoh and Dozier are going to constitute anything more than mediocrity is complete homerism:

... it is watching Spielman '... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result' – using one pick in the first 3 rounds as a solution to the problem that has plagued us for years. It hasn't worked. He simply hasn't put enough resources into it / thrown enough solid talent at the OL to get more talent to stick.

... it is drafting an OT in the second rd. and then no other OL until the 6th rd when your two OG positions are absurdly devoid of proven starting talent ... and saying with a straight face after the draft that Cleveland, who has only started at LT in college and who is 'in dire need of additional mass and functional strength' will contribute in any substantive way this season to the G mix.

... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

... it is watching your team get absolutely ragdolled in our final game last year and thinking last year's back-ups are going to magically jump in and play superior to the starters they couldn't beat the previous year.

I think I have come to the realization we are never going to have a good OL while Spielman is GM. Hey, we proved last year you can 'get by' with a mediocre (at best) OL and win a playoff game so there's that.

Well said Tom.

Idk how anyone can argue with any of that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

All some people know is that all the answers were there and trading partners available throughout willing to make good deals so we could get whatever we needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

I can understand some of the angst about the draft, particularly not drafting a guard that could come in and start right away, but there were only a couple of them and they were gone. True, there were a couple projects that people have fallen in love with, Muti, Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch, but none of them were coming in to start day one. We have been developing guys for a couple years now and it's time for them to step in and get to work. Ruiz would have been a starter on day one, he was gone. Really, if the offensive line coach was in a panic about the guard spot, I think it would have been a higher priority than it was. We will see if it all shakes out, but as of now, there simply isn't enough here to get too worked up over. It looks like they had a pretty successful draft, we will know more in a couple of years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

All some people know is that all the answers were there and trading partners available throughout willing to make good deals so we could get whatever we needed.

With all the willing trade downs Spielman has done through the years one would think he built up some "good will" with the other GM's when he actually wants to trade up.

Hope Spielman is keeping notes on whom wouldn't work with him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

I can understand some of the angst about the draft, particularly not drafting a guard that could come in and start right away, but there were only a couple of them and they were gone. True, there were a couple projects that people have fallen in love with, Muti, Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch, but none of them were coming in to start day one. We have been developing guys for a couple years now and it's time for them to step in and get to work. Ruiz would have been a starter on day one, he was gone. Really, if the offensive line coach was in a panic about the guard spot, I think it would have been a higher priority than it was. We will see if it all shakes out, but as of now, there simply isn't enough here to get too worked up over. It looks like they had a pretty successful draft, we will know more in a couple of years.

That is a good point. Bradbury @#18 really wasn't even ready to play. Or he is just not as good as advertised.

However, when our Oline has been getting punked for a long, long time now and I think most of us are just fed up with it and want to see a better approach to fixing it than only one guy a year in the early rds or a journeyman FA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

People just can't be happy. They simply know more and could have done better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

All some people know is that all the answers were there and trading partners available throughout willing to make good deals so we could get whatever we needed.

With all the willing trade downs Spielman has done through the years one would think he built up some "good will" with the other GM's when he actually wants to trade up.

Hope Spielman is keeping notes on whom wouldn't work with him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

I can understand some of the angst about the draft, particularly not drafting a guard that could come in and start right away, but there were only a couple of them and they were gone. True, there were a couple projects that people have fallen in love with, Muti, Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch, but none of them were coming in to start day one. We have been developing guys for a couple years now and it's time for them to step in and get to work. Ruiz would have been a starter on day one, he was gone. Really, if the offensive line coach was in a panic about the guard spot, I think it would have been a higher priority than it was. We will see if it all shakes out, but as of now, there simply isn't enough here to get too worked up over. It looks like they had a pretty successful draft, we will know more in a couple of years.

That is a good point. Bradbury @#18 really wasn't even ready to play. Or he is just not as good as advertised.

However, when our Oline has been getting punked for a long, long time now and I think most of us are just fed up with it and want to see a better approach to fixing it than only one guy a year in the early rds or a journeyman FA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.

Weak G draft. You had to grab them early if you wanted one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.

Weak G draft. You had to grab them early if you wanted one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
... it is trying to trade up from #89 for DT Madubuike (taken at #71), Apparently we passed on the trade when Madubuike went two picks before our trade spot. We should have made the trade, picked Hennessy #78 or Jackson #75 (the two best G prospects for our scheme [yes, according to Tom, not Dennison] and gambled on Dantzler at 105 ... since CB had already been addressed it would have made more sense to gamble there.

... it is trading out of #105 because of your bloodthirst for more third day picks WITHOUT addressing the one gaping hole on your roster that had not yet been addressed and then have the remaining five (Phillips, Charles, Simpson, Kindley, Bartch) of the top 8-9 OGs still on the board evaporate before your next pick. What a surprise.

The bottom line is that there are better players to be selected in the 70's than there are on day 3. I think Samia has the goods to be a legit starting G in the NFL, but until he actually proves it, Spielman shouldn't be putting all of his eggs in that basket. Keep upgrading the talent in an area of need until it is no longer an area of need.

This draft could have been so much more.

I think Udoh has more or equal physical talent to anyone on Day 3.

Person or Kline could also be signed.

Or Fluker. The constant chord among all the whiners is that we needed another Guard. Why would some Third or Fourth Round Guard straight out of college in an offseason probably messed up by shutdowns outplay Samia or Udoh who have a year in the system or Cleveland who was drafted in the 2nd round? Whatever, some people have to complain because the Vikings did not do exactly what they wanted. I would have drafted Muti as a flier in the 5th. I guess I could complain about that. Whatever, it is what it is.

I have consistently stated that I am happy with many of the picks and the draft in general. A few of the picks that I didn’t like initially - like Wonnum ... reading more about them afterwards definitely pushed me over to the hopeful side. Some of the picks / strategy I disagree with.

Not all of us toe a line like Samia groupies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.

Weak G draft. You had to grab them early if you wanted one.

So major reach for need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.

Weak G draft. You had to grab them early if you wanted one.

So major reach for need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I've heard it said that guard is the easiest position to replace. I'm not so sure for our team. It may actually be a little harder than others to fill, but I still do believe that it is way down on the list of most impactful positions. Nevertheless, football is a team game and so each position carries value. One player at any position can mess it up for the rest of the team.

Weak G draft. You had to grab them early if you wanted one.

So major reach for need.

You had to grab one early because there weren’t that many worthy of taking early.

Based on what other teams were doing, 3-4 with a third rd. grade.

We could have gone pure best player available and ended up with 15 WRs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

One of the UFA's looks pretty good.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/26/dallas-cowboys-tyler-higby-2020-nfl-draft-profile/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Stolen from another site:

Study done by the University of Missouri:

Didn't know the proper time to bring this to the board but a few years back there was a very intensive study done on postional Wins Against Replacement Value in the NFL over a 3 year period

Obviously the QB is the highest WAR value but second is you guessed it Interior Line.....what nope you are Wrong!

QB -5.19
WR -4.75
TE/FB -4.27
OT -3.58
Interior OL -.24
RB +.14

This study shows basically zero value in IOL so all you clamoring for IOL over WR in this past draft you may want to think again.