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Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 5:59:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
does anyone know what the final roster size is?...is it larger than 53?....


‘...owners will increase the size of the practice squad from 10 players to 16. In addition, four players can be protected from other teams on a weekly basis.‘


Effectively that makes it 57 protected players and 12 practice squad players not protected.

I would think that there will be less plucking of rookie players off the practice squad this year with the premium on veteran players due to the limited off-season and preseason. New England might be the exception though. They are in the 2021 QB sweepstakes and they are losing a lot of players due to free agency and Covid.

Then there may be teams that are looking forward to next year with the reduced salary cap. I guess what I'm saying is that there will be teams packing it in earlier than usual.

It seems that I am talking on both sides of my mouth again.




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 6:58:54 AM)

I thought the new cba increased roster size to 55. Not sure if that got backed down to 53 due to the covid though.




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 7:02:22 AM)

This season is starting to feel like a waste of time.

With over 2500 players in camps the likely hood of an outbreak is almost certain.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 9:01:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

#Vikings rookie CB Nevelle Clarke went on active/non-football injury list He said he tweaked his hamstring way back in a practice a week before opener w/Central Florida. Expects to be fine & ready for 1st practice. "“This is from last year They’re just trying to keep it in check"

Chris Tomasson on Twitter


So he 'tweaked' his hammy like 11 months ago?




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 9:11:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Bad news for the Packers.

https://twitter.com/PaulCharchian/status/1288247567395020802?s=19


Funchess is just 'a guy'.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 9:15:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Unless we pick up a free agent nose tackle, the way I see it, Johnson should start and Stephen should backup him at that position. Watts makes the most sense to start at 3 tech. On passing downs, Odenigbo can move inside next to Watts with Barr and Hunter rushing the passer from the outside. That's what I would do, but you know I always like to see rotations along the defensive line.


the one positive out of this is that we can shake out our dt's and see what the younger players can bring...next season we'll know who the players are - and we'll have pierce...hopefully....


I just can't see getting too much from rookies with such an abbreviated off-season. No preseason games now. Sigh.

For what it's worth, when I was in the ventilator I had a clear dream that the Vikings began the season with three victories.


What, no Coronavirus hallucination symptom jokes?




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 10:26:12 AM)

Snacks avg 49 tackles per

Stephens 23




kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 10:27:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Snacks avg 49 tackles per

Stephens 23

I prefer Snacks.




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 10:31:55 AM)

Snacks 1.37 sacks per

Stephens .66




kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 10:34:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

This season is starting to feel like a waste of time.

With over 2500 players in camps the likely hood of an outbreak is almost certain.

With young incredibly well conditioned athletes so what if there's an outbreak. Just keep them away from those more susceptible to consequences. Has one legit professional athlete died from this or even had severe repercussions? What if one did die. People die. It's part of life. I could die driving to the grocery store. My opinion is we take reasonable precautions and move forward with our lives. I'm willing to take the chance to eat at a restaurant once in a while. I take reasonable precautions. I think it is a very good thing that professional sports are starting up again.




kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 10:36:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Snacks 1.37 sacks per

Stephens .66

So basically Damon Harrison (Snacks) is a little more than twice as productive as Stephens.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 10:49:45 AM)

.
.
i have yet to read the 'play in one game and a player gets an accrued season' language in the 'pandemic cba'....


"Players considered at greater risk for COVID-19 (those with moderate to severe asthma, sickle cell disease, Type 2 diabetes, for example) can opt out and receive a $350,000 stipend and an accrued NFL season. Players without greater risk, like Duvernay-Tardif, will get a $150,000 stipend, but will not receive an accrued season. The contracts of all individuals who opt out -- no matter the perceived risk -- will toll to next year. After the NFL and NFLPA sign on the dotted line officially implementing all adjustments to the collective bargaining agreement, players will have one week to decide whether or not they're going to opt-out."...Judy Battista, NFL.com




Hats4Bats -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 11:15:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Unless we pick up a free agent nose tackle, the way I see it, Johnson should start and Stephen should backup him at that position. Watts makes the most sense to start at 3 tech. On passing downs, Odenigbo can move inside next to Watts with Barr and Hunter rushing the passer from the outside. That's what I would do, but you know I always like to see rotations along the defensive line.


the one positive out of this is that we can shake out our dt's and see what the younger players can bring...next season we'll know who the players are - and we'll have pierce...hopefully....


I just can't see getting too much from rookies with such an abbreviated off-season. No preseason games now. Sigh.

For what it's worth, when I was in the ventilator I had a clear dream that the Vikings began the season with three victories.


Bruce...don't forget about James Lynch. I think he is going to be a stud.!




Hats4Bats -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 11:30:38 AM)

Beginning with the 2020 regular season, the Active List limit shall be increased from forty-six players per Club to forty-eight players per Club; provided, however, that such a Club’s Active List includes a minimum of eight players whose primary playing position is Center, Guard or Tackle (collectively, “Offensive Lineman”).

Interpretation: As long as the team has eight or more linemen that are active, they’re allowed to have 48 roster spots instead of 46, which was the maximum number of active gameday players under the previous CBA. Teams need to have eight players for the five offensive line positions: LT, LGG, C, RG, and RT. If a team doesn’t have the minimum of eight linemen active, will they go back to 46 active players? Here is the CBA’s explanation:

For the sake of clarity and avoidance of doubt, for any game for which a Club’s Active List includes fewer than eight Offensive Linemen, such Club’s Active List limit shall be forty-seven players. The Clubs may not reduce these limits for the duration of this Agreement; provided, however, that individual Clubs may carry fewer than forty-eight players on their Active List during the regular season or postseason, but no fewer than forty-four players.

The minimum number of active players is 44, according to the CBA. I doubt any team will willingly field fewer than 46 healthy players. I’d love to know how the CBA arrived at these specific numbers. Also, what their explanation behind having inactive players on the roster is.

55 53-man roster


There was an increase in the number of players active on game day, so, naturally, there will be an increase in roster size, right? Here is how the CBA answers that question:

During the regular season and postseason, a Club’s Active/Inactive List shall not exceed 53 players unless a Club has chosen to elevate either one or two players from its Practice Squad to its Active/Inactive List, in accordance with the procedures set forth in Article 33, Section 5 of this Agreement.

Under the previous CBA, there wasn’t any gray area. The roster was limited to 53 players. Under the new CBA, teams can “elevate either one or two players from its Practice Squad.”
Elevating players from the practice squad temporarily

The CBA has two pages, 15 sub-sections, and even more details discussing the practice squad rules. Here are a few of the main talking points:

In each game of the regular and postseason, a Club may choose to elevate either one or two players from its Practice Squad to its Active/Inactive List without the player first terminating his Practice Squad Player Contract and executing an NFL Player Contract.

That is telling us the practice squad player is elevated temporarily and will revert to the practice squad within a business day of the day the game was played. Also, the player called up does not have to be active on game day. The big change is once the player reverts to the Practice Squad, he will not be subject to waivers.

Also, a team may only elevate a Practice Squad player for a “maximum combination of two regular-season or postseason games in the same League Year.” If a team wants to elevate a player for the third time, then we go back to the system that was outlined under the previous CBA:

The player must first terminate his Practice Squad Player Contract and execute an NFL Player Contract. If the Club wants to return the player to the Practice Squad, then the Club must request waivers on that contract or terminate the contract if the player is not subject to waivers, before resigning the player to its Practice Squad. This basically means the Club has to risk losing the player via waivers or free agency, depending on the player’s status.

The Section also outlines the possible outcomes if a player who has been elevated for more than two games is waived (presumably in an attempt to return him to the practice squad):

If another club does not claim that contract, the player becomes a free agent and is free to sign with any Club
If another Club claims him, then the “counter” is reset for the player with the new Club, and he can again be elevated up to a maximum of two games, subject to the rules set forth in Section 5
If he clears waivers and resigns to the Practice Squad of his original Club, the player may not be elevated under the special Section 5 conditions for the remainder of that regular or postseason.

Tying this back together, NFL teams still have a 53-man roster, but that roster can be expanded at the teams’ discretion to 54 or 55 players any given week by elevating players from its Practice Squad. The 53-man roster is permanent, as the players elevated revert back to the Practice squad. In the case of the San Francisco 49ers, expect some strategic movement based on their opponent that week. Don’t expect these moves to happen early in the week. The CBA specifies that the roster moves that take place can only happen on the last day that roster moves are allowed for that team in the given week.

The size of the practice squad is clear:

In the 2020 and 2021, League Years Practice Squads shall not exceed twelve (12) players per Club. Beginning with the 2022 League Year and for the remainder of this Agreement, Practice Squads shall not exceed fourteen (14) players per Club.

The eligibility, movement, and how these players are paid are the furthest thing from clear. How this reads is the Practice Squad will have 12 spots in 2020 and 2021, then from 2022 through 2030, that number will be 14 players.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 11:31:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i have yet to read the 'play in one game and a player gets an accrued season' language in the 'pandemic cba'....


"Players considered at greater risk for COVID-19 (those with moderate to severe asthma, sickle cell disease, Type 2 diabetes, for example) can opt out and receive a $350,000 stipend and an accrued NFL season. Players without greater risk, like Duvernay-Tardif, will get a $150,000 stipend, but will not receive an accrued season. The contracts of all individuals who opt out -- no matter the perceived risk -- will toll to next year. After the NFL and NFLPA sign on the dotted line officially implementing all adjustments to the collective bargaining agreement, players will have one week to decide whether or not they're going to opt-out."...Judy Battista, NFL.com


I believe the rule change says if you play 1 game this season you get credit for the season if games are cancelled. Not due to Hold out or opt out.




kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 11:45:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i have yet to read the 'play in one game and a player gets an accrued season' language in the 'pandemic cba'....


"Players considered at greater risk for COVID-19 (those with moderate to severe asthma, sickle cell disease, Type 2 diabetes, for example) can opt out and receive a $350,000 stipend and an accrued NFL season. Players without greater risk, like Duvernay-Tardif, will get a $150,000 stipend, but will not receive an accrued season. The contracts of all individuals who opt out -- no matter the perceived risk -- will toll to next year. After the NFL and NFLPA sign on the dotted line officially implementing all adjustments to the collective bargaining agreement, players will have one week to decide whether or not they're going to opt-out."...Judy Battista, NFL.com


I believe the rule change says if you play 1 game this season you get credit for the season if games are cancelled. Not due to Hold out or opt out.

I haven't read the CBA. I just heard reports that one game played equaled a season accrued. It does seem strange, but it's what I've read in multiple places.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 11:56:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Unless we pick up a free agent nose tackle, the way I see it, Johnson should start and Stephen should backup him at that position. Watts makes the most sense to start at 3 tech. On passing downs, Odenigbo can move inside next to Watts with Barr and Hunter rushing the passer from the outside. That's what I would do, but you know I always like to see rotations along the defensive line.


the one positive out of this is that we can shake out our dt's and see what the younger players can bring...next season we'll know who the players are - and we'll have pierce...hopefully....


I just can't see getting too much from rookies with such an abbreviated off-season. No preseason games now. Sigh.

For what it's worth, when I was in the ventilator I had a clear dream that the Vikings began the season with three victories.


Bruce...don't forget about James Lynch. I think he is going to be a stud.!


I hope so, but I am not holding high hopes for rookies not taken in the first round to get significant playing time this season, especially as the season begins.




Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 11:58:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i have yet to read the 'play in one game and a player gets an accrued season' language in the 'pandemic cba'....


"Players considered at greater risk for COVID-19 (those with moderate to severe asthma, sickle cell disease, Type 2 diabetes, for example) can opt out and receive a $350,000 stipend and an accrued NFL season. Players without greater risk, like Duvernay-Tardif, will get a $150,000 stipend, but will not receive an accrued season. The contracts of all individuals who opt out -- no matter the perceived risk -- will toll to next year. After the NFL and NFLPA sign on the dotted line officially implementing all adjustments to the collective bargaining agreement, players will have one week to decide whether or not they're going to opt-out."...Judy Battista, NFL.com


I believe the rule change says if you play 1 game this season you get credit for the season if games are cancelled. Not due to Hold out or opt out.

Ahhh. Well that makes sense

I get this vibe like it's not going to take much for Cook to go out. You can't see that helping his cause in FA but the history of the NFL says someone will pay anyway.




Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 12:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Unless we pick up a free agent nose tackle, the way I see it, Johnson should start and Stephen should backup him at that position. Watts makes the most sense to start at 3 tech. On passing downs, Odenigbo can move inside next to Watts with Barr and Hunter rushing the passer from the outside. That's what I would do, but you know I always like to see rotations along the defensive line.


the one positive out of this is that we can shake out our dt's and see what the younger players can bring...next season we'll know who the players are - and we'll have pierce...hopefully....


I just can't see getting too much from rookies with such an abbreviated off-season. No preseason games now. Sigh.

For what it's worth, when I was in the ventilator I had a clear dream that the Vikings began the season with three victories.


Bruce...don't forget about James Lynch. I think he is going to be a stud.!


I hope so, but I am not holding high hopes for rookies not taken in the first round to get significant playing time this season, especially as the season begins.


I bet when you look back it's not going to be nearly as dramatic as you thought it would be - just my opinion; we'll see I guess (hopefully)




kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 12:41:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Unless we pick up a free agent nose tackle, the way I see it, Johnson should start and Stephen should backup him at that position. Watts makes the most sense to start at 3 tech. On passing downs, Odenigbo can move inside next to Watts with Barr and Hunter rushing the passer from the outside. That's what I would do, but you know I always like to see rotations along the defensive line.


the one positive out of this is that we can shake out our dt's and see what the younger players can bring...next season we'll know who the players are - and we'll have pierce...hopefully....


I just can't see getting too much from rookies with such an abbreviated off-season. No preseason games now. Sigh.

For what it's worth, when I was in the ventilator I had a clear dream that the Vikings began the season with three victories.


Bruce...don't forget about James Lynch. I think he is going to be a stud.!


I hope so, but I am not holding high hopes for rookies not taken in the first round to get significant playing time this season, especially as the season begins.


I bet when you look back it's not going to be nearly as dramatic as you thought it would be - just my opinion; we'll see I guess (hopefully)

Coaches will always act like practice time is critical because it justifies their jobs. On the other hand some players are just better than other players. Regarding the rookies it will probably be 6 of one and half dozen of the other.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 1:07:00 PM)

Among eligible WRs,

Bisi Johnson's 119.4 passer rating when targeted ranked 11th
➤ 5th among rookies

Big things ahead in 2020

PFF MIN Vikings on Twitter




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 1:11:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Unless we pick up a free agent nose tackle, the way I see it, Johnson should start and Stephen should backup him at that position. Watts makes the most sense to start at 3 tech. On passing downs, Odenigbo can move inside next to Watts with Barr and Hunter rushing the passer from the outside. That's what I would do, but you know I always like to see rotations along the defensive line.


the one positive out of this is that we can shake out our dt's and see what the younger players can bring...next season we'll know who the players are - and we'll have pierce...hopefully....


I just can't see getting too much from rookies with such an abbreviated off-season. No preseason games now. Sigh.

For what it's worth, when I was in the ventilator I had a clear dream that the Vikings began the season with three victories.


Bruce...don't forget about James Lynch. I think he is going to be a stud.!



i think that we've got 4-5 young dt's with potential that haven't had their shot...it'll be great to watch them battle for starting/rotational playing time....




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 1:33:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Unless we pick up a free agent nose tackle, the way I see it, Johnson should start and Stephen should backup him at that position. Watts makes the most sense to start at 3 tech. On passing downs, Odenigbo can move inside next to Watts with Barr and Hunter rushing the passer from the outside. That's what I would do, but you know I always like to see rotations along the defensive line.


the one positive out of this is that we can shake out our dt's and see what the younger players can bring...next season we'll know who the players are - and we'll have pierce...hopefully....


I just can't see getting too much from rookies with such an abbreviated off-season. No preseason games now. Sigh.

For what it's worth, when I was in the ventilator I had a clear dream that the Vikings began the season with three victories.


Bruce...don't forget about James Lynch. I think he is going to be a stud.!


I hope so, but I am not holding high hopes for rookies not taken in the first round to get significant playing time this season, especially as the season begins.


I bet when you look back it's not going to be nearly as dramatic as you thought it would be - just my opinion; we'll see I guess (hopefully)

Coaches will always act like practice time is critical because it justifies their jobs. On the other hand some players are just better than other players. Regarding the rookies it will probably be 6 of one and half dozen of the other.


Matthew Coller seems to agree with you. It seems I often take unpopular points of view.

"I don’t think missing preseason games is a big issue. Only practicing in pads a dozen times could be much more of a hurdle".

And he just added this to me:

"haha sure thing. I'll give you this Bruce: Nobody really knows since it's never happened before".




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 1:34:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Among eligible WRs,

Bisi Johnson's 119.4 passer rating when targeted ranked 11th
➤ 5th among rookies

Big things ahead in 2020

PFF MIN Vikings on Twitter

I have a real hard time getting excited about this guy.

In fact, I think he overachieved and his rookie year will be his peak.

He just doesn't have any upside.




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2020 1:51:12 PM)

Bisi had some early success until the league had film on him. Pretty much a non factor the rest of the way.




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