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ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 10:02:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Would you trade Harrison Smith and a second round pick (probably a late selection) for Jamal Adams and pay him the big bucks. A first round pick, he is young and proven. This is a young man's game. On the other hand, it would be nice to see Smith retire as a career Viking. I am not sure paying two safeties (or even one) big money is all that smart. Safeties use to be the guys that delivered the bone crushing hits across the middle to force receivers to think twice about doing it again. The rules kind of take away their hammer.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 10:12:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Would you trade Harrison Smith and a second round pick (probably a late selection) for Jamal Adams and pay him the big bucks. A first round pick, he is young and proven. This is a young man's game. On the other hand, it would be nice to see Smith retire as a career Viking. I am not sure paying two safeties (or even one) big money is all that smart. Safeties use to be the guys that delivered the bone crushing hits across the middle to force receivers to think twice about doing it again. The rules kind of take away their hammer. The argument against that is that every one of the corners are on their rookie contract, so it's good to solidify the back end long term before Harrison declines. Actually, I do believe Harrison played at a high level last year. I can see both sides of this question.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 10:22:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Would you trade Harrison Smith and a second round pick (probably a late selection) for Jamal Adams and pay him the big bucks. A first round pick, he is young and proven. This is a young man's game. On the other hand, it would be nice to see Smith retire as a career Viking. I am not sure paying two safeties (or even one) big money is all that smart. Safeties use to be the guys that delivered the bone crushing hits across the middle to force receivers to think twice about doing it again. The rules kind of take away their hammer. The argument against that is that every one of the corners are on their rookie contract, so it's good to solidify the back end long term before Harrison declines. Actually, I do believe Harrison played at a high level last year. I can see both sides of this question. Yes maybe, I would suspect if your corners are getting burned its game over no matter what is behind them.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 10:25:10 AM)
Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 10:40:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 10:40:43 AM)
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2897525-irv-smith-jr-is-nfls-best-sophomore-tight-end

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 1:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. over the last three years adams had 2 interceptions - smith 11....

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 1:29:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. over the last three years adams had 2 interceptions - smith 11.... I recall he scored on a couple of them. You are right. He's a game changer.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 2:18:05 PM)
Harrison Smith is elite and at a point in his contract where an extension could be added to keep his cap hit manageable. We should be doing the same for Ant Harris. We would have four ELITE talents on defense in Hunter, Kendricks, Smith, and Harris with young corners and adequate talent everywhere else.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 2:56:00 PM)
I liked this article https://vikingsterritory.com/2020/analysis/speculating-on-vikings-udfa-dan-chisena

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 3:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/25/2020 6:18:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 2:02:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. sacks over the last two seasons: smith 4 Adams 10

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 2:15:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los. i've always loved smith, but he did lose track of taysom hill for a couple of big plays that helped the saints to get back into the game...also, anthony harris missed a tackle that allowed hill to find some space....

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 5:59:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. sacks over the last two seasons: smith 4 Adams 10 Character matters and Adams seems to have issues and chemistry is critical, especially this year with a limited off-season. On the other hand, I've read more than a couple of you say you would rather keep Harris than Smith, so I believe that you are with me when I feel that football is a young man's game. New England has routinely jettisoned some of it's better players and also we have learned that it is better to remove a player sooner than later. Adams was a top ten lottery pick, so he has to be talented. I'm saying that you would have to consider it, but I don't know enough about Adams to pull the trigger. There is a part of me that wants to see Smith retire a Viking. He has been a loyal and steadfast player- one of the best and underrated for sure.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 10:29:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. sacks over the last two seasons: smith 4 Adams 10 You have any context for those numbers? They're meaningless in a vacuum.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 11:58:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. sacks over the last two seasons: smith 4 Adams 10 You have any context for those numbers? They're meaningless in a vacuum. sorry, ma'am, all i've got is the vacuum...i'm the fuller brush man of stats...but, i'm not promoting anyone either...i see stats that i think the board would appreciate and i post them.... personally, i'd keep smith and draft a safety early next year - maybe dye is our next strong safety and we extend harris...harris is a physical free safety with great range, and one of the best playing...he doesn't get a lot of love, but he might be more valuable than adams.... i think that smith is planning on retiring soon - one or two more years, that's why we didn't extend him to lower our cap this offseason....

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 12:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer i think that smith is planning on retiring soon - one or two more years, that's why we didn't extend him to lower our cap this offseason.... Has he alluded to that? He's 31 and has been very healthy. The only game he's missed the past 3 years is when we rested our starters in a meaningless finale against the Bears.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 12:34:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer i think that smith is planning on retiring soon - one or two more years, that's why we didn't extend him to lower our cap this offseason.... Has he alluded to that? He's 31 and has been very healthy. The only game he's missed the past 3 years is when we rested our starters in a meaningless finale against the Bears. it's just an intuitive sense that i get...after 2020 he will have made over $50m playing football...he's got his health and plenty of money...he'll always be in the vikings' family - maybe make the ring of honor....

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 1:56:53 PM)
The team may have trouble paying him. We'll see.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 1:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los. i've always loved smith, but he did lose track of taysom hill for a couple of big plays that helped the saints to get back into the game...also, anthony harris missed a tackle that allowed hill to find some space.... Harris also whiffed on the tackle that led to Kansas City's 96 yard TD run. A huge dagger in the game we lost by 1 score. Doesn't Adams have two years left on his rookie deal? Earliest a team could talk extension would be next year. So it's not 10M to 15M. It'd be 15M vs 20M (next two years). I'm at work so I didn't look up the exact numbers. I'm not advocating the trade - there's also scheme to consider. How would Adams do under Zimmer? I think he'd be even more productive. Regardless as Bruce pointed out. We will have to get younger at Safety very soon with Harris' and Smith's age. I also trust Zimmer on draft/development. He's taken Sandejo and made him decent. Harris and made him a stud. Kearse into something.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 2:42:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands. Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement. I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable. If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams. IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows. Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover. I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los. i've always loved smith, but he did lose track of taysom hill for a couple of big plays that helped the saints to get back into the game...also, anthony harris missed a tackle that allowed hill to find some space.... Harris also whiffed on the tackle that led to Kansas City's 96 yard TD run. A huge dagger in the game we lost by 1 score. Doesn't Adams have two years left on his rookie deal? Earliest a team could talk extension would be next year. So it's not 10M to 15M. It'd be 15M vs 20M (next two years). I'm at work so I didn't look up the exact numbers. I'm not advocating the trade - there's also scheme to consider. How would Adams do under Zimmer? I think he'd be even more productive. Regardless as Bruce pointed out. We will have to get younger at Safety very soon with Harris' and Smith's age. I also trust Zimmer on draft/development. He's taken Sandejo and made him decent. Harris and made him a stud. Kearse into something. adams has one more year and then the 5th year option, but he wants a new deal now - that's his issue with the jets.... there might be some credibility to the Vikes making a deal for desmond king, cb (chargers)...jaleel johnson played with him in Iowa and they've been tweeting/hinting that something might be in the works.... i don't think that we've got a lot of confidence in hughes and hill and we're looking for a proven, but young vet...it'll be interesting to see how things shake out at cornerback over the next two years.... https://thevikingage.com/2020/06/26/minnesota-vikings-rumors-interest-desmond-king/

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 7:42:58 PM)
King is a stud at nickel. The problem with the proposed trade is that this is a limited off-season and continuity along the offensive line is at a premium. Are we going to put a rookie second rounder on Cousins blind side to start the season with no OTA's and minicamps?

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 7:55:54 PM)
Draft pick signings Minus Vikings NFL 74 out of 240 Vikings 0-15. Vikings seem to believe that signing draft picks is optional. In fairness there are still a lot of teams who have signed nobody, but the Vikings have the most picks to sign.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/26/2020 8:20:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson King is a stud at nickel. The problem with the proposed trade is that this is a limited off-season and continuity along the offensive line is at a premium. Are we going to put a rookie second rounder on Cousins blind side to start the season with no OTA's and minicamps? Reiff out King in huh? I get the consternation. On the other hand the value seems pretty decent.

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