RE: General Vikes Talk

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Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 11:56:42 AM)
Sure that's all great stuff for the owner and oh the poor players .... I really don't care about either of them. I do care that if Hunter, under contract for three years, gets his way because, it's only fair to him, my team, the one I want to see win at least one F Super Bowl, now has a lot less talent because we're worrying about being fair to a guy that signed the contract to be in the position he is in.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 11:58:36 AM)
Play another year. If you do as well as everyone thinks you will, you'll get you're way.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 12:41:00 PM)
Depends...If Hunter is looking for a Bosa deal it will certainly drain our cap and cost us. However, Hunter was 1st team all-pro for both 18 & 19 seasons. So I see Hunter's pov yet the neck injury and the mere fact he has 3 years left on his current deal does put the organization in a bit of a pickle. Examples were cited many pages back that most NFL teams will not enter into negotiations with a player with less than 1 year left on his existing deal. The Vikings did Theilen's with 2 years left. That appears to be the water mark for this particular team. Couple that in with an injury that has ended or really hindered other players it all kind of points to Hunter needing to come back to the team and prove you still got it and you'll get your cabbage before the following season.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 12:49:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Hunter is free to hold out and not do his job, just as his employer is free to fine him, collect a pro-rated portion of previously paid guaranteed money, and/or 'fire' him. The so-called contract is about transfer of funds and relatively meaningless from the employment angle. The term employer is just as meaningless. The NFL business model is an atrocity. Find me another industry where every franchise greatly succeeds financially in every city every year. The business model is to take the fans money, distribute some of it to the players and keep the rest of it for themselves and then repeat. (TV money is also just the fans' money as they drive the ratings that drives the advertising revenue) Why is there even any need for owners? A ten year old could smile for the camera at media events and hire a GM and coach from a list of ten or twelve familiar names. Oh dear did they guess wrong? So do 2/3rds of the existing owners - all the time. But god forbid a player try to act in a business manner for his own benefit. What a selfish loser that guy is! Go do your job! What? People with commensurate skills and production are making double what you make? Too bad! Now excuse me, I have forty-three dumptrucks full of cash I need to find a place for. You tell 'em David F.! Hunter can sit out. He can go on strike. He can wage a one man crusade against the system he is in. His choice. At some point there will be mandatory fines agreed upon by his union. Later, he will be docked game checks. Purely his decision. And if he doesn't like the NFL business model he can get out of the entire operation right now. As stated, we don't know what his intentions are. But IF he holds out through the season opener, anyone want to wager how many weekly checks at about $1 million each he'll be ok with losing? IMO as long as his neck really is ok, I think he will be in the lineup week 1.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 12:52:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Depends...If Hunter is looking for a Bosa deal it will certainly drain our cap and cost us. However, Hunter was 1st team all-pro for both 18 & 19 seasons. So I see Hunter's pov yet the neck injury and the mere fact he has 3 years left on his current deal does put the organization in a bit of a pickle. Examples were cited many pages back that most NFL teams will not enter into negotiations with a player with less than 1 year left on his existing deal. The Vikings did Theilen's with 2 years left. That appears to be the water mark for this particular team. Couple that in with an injury that has ended or really hindered other players it all kind of points to Hunter needing to come back to the team and prove you still got it and you'll get your cabbage before the following season. While paying him $17.5 million this year.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 12:57:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Hunter is free to hold out and not do his job, just as his employer is free to fine him, collect a pro-rated portion of previously paid guaranteed money, and/or 'fire' him. The so-called contract is about transfer of funds and relatively meaningless from the employment angle. The term employer is just as meaningless. The NFL business model is an atrocity. Find me another industry where every franchise greatly succeeds financially in every city every year. The business model is to take the fans money, distribute some of it to the players and keep the rest of it for themselves and then repeat. (TV money is also just the fans' money as they drive the ratings that drives the advertising revenue) Why is there even any need for owners? A ten year old could smile for the camera at media events and hire a GM and coach from a list of ten or twelve familiar names. Oh dear did they guess wrong? So do 2/3rds of the existing owners - all the time. But god forbid a player try to act in a business manner for his own benefit. What a selfish loser that guy is! Go do your job! What? People with commensurate skills and production are making double what you make? Too bad! Now excuse me, I have forty-three dumptrucks full of cash I need to find a place for. You tell 'em David F.! Hunter can sit out. He can go on strike. He can wage a one man crusade against the system he is in. His choice. At some point there will be mandatory fines agreed upon by his union. Later, he will be docked game checks. Purely his decision. And if he doesn't like the NFL business model he can get out of the entire operation right now. As stated, we don't know what his intentions are. But IF he holds out through the season opener, anyone want to wager how many weekly checks at about $1 million each he'll be ok with losing? IMO as long as his neck really is ok, I think he will be in the lineup week 1. Or the team can simply pay him what he’s worth.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:04:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Hunter is free to hold out and not do his job, just as his employer is free to fine him, collect a pro-rated portion of previously paid guaranteed money, and/or 'fire' him. The so-called contract is about transfer of funds and relatively meaningless from the employment angle. The term employer is just as meaningless. The NFL business model is an atrocity. Find me another industry where every franchise greatly succeeds financially in every city every year. The business model is to take the fans money, distribute some of it to the players and keep the rest of it for themselves and then repeat. (TV money is also just the fans' money as they drive the ratings that drives the advertising revenue) Why is there even any need for owners? A ten year old could smile for the camera at media events and hire a GM and coach from a list of ten or twelve familiar names. Oh dear did they guess wrong? So do 2/3rds of the existing owners - all the time. But god forbid a player try to act in a business manner for his own benefit. What a selfish loser that guy is! Go do your job! What? People with commensurate skills and production are making double what you make? Too bad! Now excuse me, I have forty-three dumptrucks full of cash I need to find a place for. You tell 'em David F.! Hunter can sit out. He can go on strike. He can wage a one man crusade against the system he is in. His choice. At some point there will be mandatory fines agreed upon by his union. Later, he will be docked game checks. Purely his decision. And if he doesn't like the NFL business model he can get out of the entire operation right now. As stated, we don't know what his intentions are. But IF he holds out through the season opener, anyone want to wager how many weekly checks at about $1 million each he'll be ok with losing? IMO as long as his neck really is ok, I think he will be in the lineup week 1. Or the team can simply pay him what he’s worth. Or for now he could make piece with the contract he signed. Or he could be a leader of this team. Or he could merely show up for his teammates and coaches like Patterson that developed him.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:10:22 PM)
In other news, the NFL announced Thursday that Packers tight end Jace Sternberger was suspended without pay for the first two games of the regular season for violating the league's policy and program on substances of abuse. Just another outrageous instance of players succumbing to all the burdens those do-nothing owners have placed on them.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:11:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Hunter is free to hold out and not do his job, just as his employer is free to fine him, collect a pro-rated portion of previously paid guaranteed money, and/or 'fire' him. The so-called contract is about transfer of funds and relatively meaningless from the employment angle. The term employer is just as meaningless. The NFL business model is an atrocity. Find me another industry where every franchise greatly succeeds financially in every city every year. The business model is to take the fans money, distribute some of it to the players and keep the rest of it for themselves and then repeat. (TV money is also just the fans' money as they drive the ratings that drives the advertising revenue) Why is there even any need for owners? A ten year old could smile for the camera at media events and hire a GM and coach from a list of ten or twelve familiar names. Oh dear did they guess wrong? So do 2/3rds of the existing owners - all the time. But god forbid a player try to act in a business manner for his own benefit. What a selfish loser that guy is! Go do your job! What? People with commensurate skills and production are making double what you make? Too bad! Now excuse me, I have forty-three dumptrucks full of cash I need to find a place for. You tell 'em David F.! Hunter can sit out. He can go on strike. He can wage a one man crusade against the system he is in. His choice. At some point there will be mandatory fines agreed upon by his union. Later, he will be docked game checks. Purely his decision. And if he doesn't like the NFL business model he can get out of the entire operation right now. As stated, we don't know what his intentions are. But IF he holds out through the season opener, anyone want to wager how many weekly checks at about $1 million each he'll be ok with losing? IMO as long as his neck really is ok, I think he will be in the lineup week 1. Or the team can simply pay him what he’s worth. Or for now he could make piece with the contract he signed. Or he could be a leader of this team. Or he could merely show up for his teammates and coaches like Patterson that developed him. Hunter only had one chance to make as much dough as he can before he’s chewed up and spit out of the league. The team, on the other hand, has all the money necessary to keep an elite player happy and keep the team as competitive as possible. Elite players get elite pay or shit goes south. What are we saving the cap space for? Just in case the next Rudolph/Barr/Cousins comes along?

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen In other news, the NFL announced Thursday that Packers tight end Jace Sternberger was suspended without pay for the first two games of the regular season for violating the league's policy and program on substances of abuse. Just another outrageous instance of players succumbing to all the burdens those do-nothing owners have placed on them. Maybe he can go get hand jobs from exploited sex workers with bob kraft on those weeks.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:15:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen In other news, the NFL announced Thursday that Packers tight end Jace Sternberger was suspended without pay for the first two games of the regular season for violating the league's policy and program on substances of abuse. Just another outrageous instance of players succumbing to all the burdens those do-nothing owners have placed on them. Maybe he can go get hand jobs from exploited sex workers with bob kraft on those weeks. Maybe! And go on a crime spree, beat his girlfriend, and kill someone like players do.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:33:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Hunter is free to hold out and not do his job, just as his employer is free to fine him, collect a pro-rated portion of previously paid guaranteed money, and/or 'fire' him. The so-called contract is about transfer of funds and relatively meaningless from the employment angle. The term employer is just as meaningless. The NFL business model is an atrocity. Find me another industry where every franchise greatly succeeds financially in every city every year. The business model is to take the fans money, distribute some of it to the players and keep the rest of it for themselves and then repeat. (TV money is also just the fans' money as they drive the ratings that drives the advertising revenue) Why is there even any need for owners? A ten year old could smile for the camera at media events and hire a GM and coach from a list of ten or twelve familiar names. Oh dear did they guess wrong? So do 2/3rds of the existing owners - all the time. But god forbid a player try to act in a business manner for his own benefit. What a selfish loser that guy is! Go do your job! What? People with commensurate skills and production are making double what you make? Too bad! Now excuse me, I have forty-three dumptrucks full of cash I need to find a place for. You tell 'em David F.! Hunter can sit out. He can go on strike. He can wage a one man crusade against the system he is in. His choice. At some point there will be mandatory fines agreed upon by his union. Later, he will be docked game checks. Purely his decision. And if he doesn't like the NFL business model he can get out of the entire operation right now. As stated, we don't know what his intentions are. But IF he holds out through the season opener, anyone want to wager how many weekly checks at about $1 million each he'll be ok with losing? IMO as long as his neck really is ok, I think he will be in the lineup week 1. Or the team can simply pay him what he’s worth. Or for now he could make piece with the contract he signed. Or he could be a leader of this team. Or he could merely show up for his teammates and coaches like Patterson that developed him. Hunter only had one chance to make as much dough as he can before he’s chewed up and spit out of the league. The team, on the other hand, has all the money necessary to keep an elite player happy and keep the team as competitive as possible. Elite players get elite pay or shit goes south. What are we saving the cap space for? Just in case the next Rudolph/Barr/Cousins comes along? Everyone knows the timespan for earning money in the NFL is limited. Conversely, tens of millions say what the players earn is obscene. It is what it is. No, we do NOT have all the money needed to (what you perceive) keep him happy. You want to spend what little excess cap we have on a player who WAS elite but now is somewhat unknown due to an injury that has a poor (?) track record of completely healing AND has three years left on the contract he signed. We recently set the precedent of a 100% guaranteed contract, which was foolish. Is renegotiating a 5 year contract with 3 years left on it also setting another precedent? Then again, if we go into cap hell to give him a Bosa type deal and he gets injured, maybe we can win the Good Samaritan Award.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:44:31 PM)
Danielle Hunter signed a 5 year, $72,000,000 contract with the Minnesota Vikings, including a $15,000,000 signing bonus, and $40,000,000 guaranteed. Wasn't there something about the lower annual salaries being offset by the high guaranteed number? Not in a dollar-dollar thing but because of the security the guaranteed money provided. Oh, as it stands next year his salary drops a half million. Fun for all!

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 1:50:03 PM)
That means players still have two years left on their deals. While the amounts are modest compared to what they could get on the open market, they have virtually no leverage. In light of the focus on safety in the NFL, and with more concussion lawsuits popping up seemingly every day, it would make sense if players started focusing on ways to get more guaranteed dollars from teams. However, holdouts have not yet become the preferred method for securing them. Hmmm.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 2:31:25 PM)
You and KG make a compelling argument. I guess we’re just on different sides. If it were me I’d pay my elite talent and be happy the player turned out to do such a good job for the team.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 2:43:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. You and KG make a compelling argument. I guess we’re just on different sides. If it were me I’d pay my elite talent and be happy the player turned out to do such a good job for the team. We are already paying Hunter a shitload of money and we don't even know if he's elite talent. Players coming back from injury often aren't as good as they were before. I'm happy with paying Hunter a shitload of money. Just not more money than was already agreed to.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 2:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Depends...If Hunter is looking for a Bosa deal it will certainly drain our cap and cost us. However, Hunter was 1st team all-pro for both 18 & 19 seasons. So I see Hunter's pov yet the neck injury and the mere fact he has 3 years left on his current deal does put the organization in a bit of a pickle. Examples were cited many pages back that most NFL teams will not enter into negotiations with a player with less than 1 year left on his existing deal. The Vikings did Theilen's with 2 years left. That appears to be the water mark for this particular team. Couple that in with an injury that has ended or really hindered other players it all kind of points to Hunter needing to come back to the team and prove you still got it and you'll get your cabbage before the following season. While paying him $17.5 million this year. bosa played in seven games in 2018 and twelve in 2020 - the chargers are idiots...for $27m/yr, i'd want 30 sacks per.... i'd sign houston for $6m/yr.... .

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 7:30:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. You and KG make a compelling argument. I guess we’re just on different sides. If it were me I’d pay my elite talent and be happy the player turned out to do such a good job for the team. Me and who? [:-] Was just thinking you have some great points and it's time I saw the light: pay the man!

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 8:46:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. You and KG make a compelling argument. I guess we’re just on different sides. If it were me I’d pay my elite talent and be happy the player turned out to do such a good job for the team. Me and who? [:-] Was just thinking you have some great points and it's time I saw the light: pay the man! When they join hands like on the Hunter issue, Bill and KG make a formidable team, thats for sure.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 8:47:53 PM)
Thank you David F. Thank you.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 9:38:00 PM)
Was holding that one ever since I read Bill's 'don't lump us all in the same boat' comment a few pages back.

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2021 11:55:39 PM)
I would hope the Vikings are at least proposing something like a restructure where they guarantee more of his next two years in the interest of showing good faith, just like they are likely asking him to be patient and they'll work out an extension after this year. That could go a long way toward building a bridge past this year, which is a difficult time to extend because of his injury and the time left on his contract. His is one of the more egregiously undervalued contracts in the league, since at the point he signed it he'd only been a starter for one year (through no fault of his own). It was clear where he was headed, but his progress had been stunted by a degree of underuse. Why not work with him to try to pay him what he's earned, since if it were the other way around they'd have no problem cutting him.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/13/2021 8:13:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm I would hope the Vikings are at least proposing something like a restructure where they guarantee more of his next two years in the interest of showing good faith, just like they are likely asking him to be patient and they'll work out an extension after this year. That could go a long way toward building a bridge past this year, which is a difficult time to extend because of his injury and the time left on his contract. His is one of the more egregiously undervalued contracts in the league, since at the point he signed it he'd only been a starter for one year (through no fault of his own). It was clear where he was headed, but his progress had been stunted by a degree of underuse. Why not work with him to try to pay him what he's earned, since if it were the other way around they'd have no problem cutting him. You best be careful, Bill and KG have lumped together in one boat and are out there just waiting to attack that kind of one-sided Hunter interpretation. For my money ... Hunter was a completely ineffective college player. The Vikings took a chance on him in the 3rd rd ... gave him the perfect opportunity which he has taken full advantage of. He did not step into the pros as an elite player ... he has risen very fast. We know he's capable of being elite but he hasn't put up the dominating numbers of Donald or Miller, year after year – hence the 2018 contract based on where he came from, not the dominance he could potentially achieve. HE undervalued his own potential when Hunter signed the contract for 5 YEARS. So I'm not going to blame the Vikings for that. The injury puts a hold on any negotiation. As a cornerstone of the defense, the team would be wise NOT to play hardball and just say, 'screw you, suck it up for two more years' (as the law office of KG-Bill would have us do). We have already taken a huge chance on him twice ... by drafting a below avg. college player and then by extending him to a, at the time, substantial contract. Is it time for the next step - no, the injury is neither Hunter's nor the Viking's fault but it is a cold reality of the game (both understand). It directly ties into the contract game as well.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/13/2021 9:01:01 AM)
the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season. 1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods. 2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account. 3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/13/2021 9:01:09 AM)
Great post. Tom you are an enjoying read.

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