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Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 7:01:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

If we have to improve our OL for Watson to be an improvement, then why get him?

Watson is an immediate improvement over Kirk, he can make every throw Kirk makes, his mobility is what makes Watson an improvement.

Kirk had the Vikings not even making the playoffs last year. Replace him with Watson, and the Vikes make the playoffs, but probably one and done.

After adding Watson, you change the OL coach, improve the guards, and a couple of defensive positions, and you have a team that can contend for a Super Bowl.


Make those same changes for Kirk, I am still not sure you have a SB contender. Maybe a team that wins 1 playoff game, or gets to the NFC Championship, and loses by a wide margin.


Before you get too giddy about Watson....what was the Texans record last year? One player does not make a team.

KC has a ton of speed at WR and on defense. Injuries to the Oline and Mahomes loss of mobility/turf toe and they still made it to the Super Bowl.

I would rate Wilson above Watson. In fact with the Vikings situation I would rate Fields and Lance as better options then Watson because if you trade Cousins you have no cap space. You draft a QB (Fields/Lance) you can still clear out some cap and fill some holes.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 8:45:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.


He was the first African American to work as a sports analyst on national television. He came across as a really nice guy.



twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 9:11:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.


He was the first African American to work as a sports analyst on national television. He came across as a really nice guy.

Legend.

He was on the Vikings Fox 9 shows fairly recently. Obviously wasn't at his peak anymore, but I still enjoyed listening to him.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 11:19:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.


He was the first African American to work as a sports analyst on national television. He came across as a really nice guy.

Legend.

He was on the Vikings Fox 9 shows fairly recently. Obviously wasn't at his peak anymore, but I still enjoyed listening to him.


He had an important position at Macalester College in St. Paul, too. It might have been sports director.

Edit:. I confirmed that. He was also CEO of the local Big Brothers and Big Sisters. He had an impressive career after football and it's interesting that a lot of it was here in Minnesota.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 12:35:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Did everyone forget that Brady tried to GIFT wrap the NFCG in a way I've never seen Cousins do? Brady played like S*** in that game, was average in a couple of the other playoff games. Brady is nothing more than a compliment piece. To say Cousins couldn't do that? No way to prove it either way, but some of the takes here are pretty laughable

As soon as Cousins leads the Vikings to a 28-10 3rd quarter lead in the NFC Championship, and 21-6 halftime SB lead, or a 31-9 3rd quarter SB lead, then you will have a point. Until then, your nonsense is laughable.


Do you think Brady's throws that led to the Bucs getting early leads on GB and KC, helped the Bucs defense get turnovers against 2 of the best QBs in the league in Rodgers and Mahomes ?




[&:][&:]


Vs GB, the INT vs Rodgers came in the first half, zero INTs in the second half. And the Jones fumble that gave the largest lead of the game (if I remember right) came on the second play of the second half. Bucs didn't generate any other TOs in that game. So no to your question vs GB. And the bucs defense harassed Mahomes ALL game.

TB's rating were: 104.3 vs WFT, 92.9 vs NO, and 73.8 vs GB. His best was against KC at 125.8. Again the Bucs defense played Giant-like throughout the playoffs. And I love how you delete out my points about the Bucs oline and weapons. But whatever floats your boat my friend.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 1:48:45 PM)

So Brady capitalized on the turnovers, and didn't make mistakes in the 1st half to put his team in the hole, and did this on the road against quality opposition, and he did the same thing in the SB, against a team that just won the SB the previous year.

There is NO guarantee Cousins would do that.

Only a fool would say any QB could do that. As none of Brady's throws looked terribly difficult, there are probably some that speculate Trubisky, Carr or Cousins could all havemade those throws, but just watching someone play in the clutch, doesn't make another player suddenly clutch.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 2:00:55 PM)

I meant to say get turnovers AND slowed down Rodgers and Mahomes, which early leads help to do.

I am not going to lay it all on the Bucs OL being so much better than than the Vikes. Vikings are also very good at WR, and RB.

The Bucs OL looked better BECAUSE of Brady, having a quicker release, being decisive and making accurate throws makes a world of difference. They had WR targets with Winston, but some thought, if they could only improve the OL, that that was the real problem, when it may have been an inability to make quick, accurate, clutch throws against quality opposition, along with the ability to get your teammates to rally around you.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 2:08:01 PM)

Before you get too giddy about Watson....what was the Texans record last year? One player does not make a team.

Before you get too giddy about putting down Watson, keeping in mind your point about 1 player not making a team, I would prefer we compare with the Houston team that had 2 great WRs [like the Vikes did last year], and that would be the 2 previous seasons, where despite a mediocre, even weak defense, the Texans were 11-5, and 10-6, winning their division both years.

However, I do agree with your point about Russell Wilson being a better choice, as Wilson has actually won a SB, and has made some nice comebacks in the playoffs. But, it sounds like the asking price for Wilson may be higher than that for Watson, and Wilson is 32, while Watson is 25.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 2:33:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

So Brady capitalized on the turnovers, and didn't make mistakes in the 1st half to put his team in the hole, and did this on the road against quality opposition, and he did the same thing in the SB, against a team that just won the SB the previous year.

There is NO guarantee Cousins would do that.

Only a fool would say any QB could do that. As none of Brady's throws looked terribly difficult, there are probably some that speculate Trubisky, Carr or Cousins could all havemade those throws, but just watching someone play in the clutch, doesn't make another player suddenly clutch.



Make up your mind on which argument you are trying to push. Or better yet, do some research AND then make a claim. Like Brady made the oline better. Prove it. I can post some stats that back up my argument for the SB. Brady was pressured only 3 times (10%) on plays 2.5 or less while Mahomes was pressure 43% in the same situations. Bucs oline had 33 carries, 145 yards, 4.4 average, 1 TD.

Who guaranteed Cousins could do that? [&:]

Who said any QB could do that? [&:] [&:] You need to work on your reading comprehension.

My original points: 1) I'm all for improving the Vikings QB situation. 2) Cousins, inaccurately imo, is getting all the blame for slow starts when it's multiple things.
3) Bucs had a vastly superior team to the Vikings last year in all phases except 1, the run game which was mitigated or caused by scheme (and as you can see the in the SB, ran it pretty effectively). And that the Bucs lifted Brady not the other way around.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 6:31:45 PM)

All I know is Tampa Bay went 7-9 without Brady, then the following year won the SB with Brady.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 7:28:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

All I know is Tampa Bay went 7-9 without Brady, then the following year won the SB with Brady.



If that's your takeaway, cest la vie.



ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 8:52:58 AM)

Brady brings a winning attitude and culture. I listen to a lot of talk radio and I heard "winning culture" time after time from current players, former players, current coaches, former coaches, and former GM's.

Never gave it much thought but after about 7 rings I think maybe there is something to it.

Contrast that to the Twins, losing about 18 playoff games in a row. There is something to losing culture also.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 10:35:55 AM)

All I know is Tampa Bay went 7-9 without Brady, then the following year won the SB with Brady.

That is the point, and it destroys all of stat boy Pager's arguments.

The Patriots were 12-4 with Brady, 7-9 last year without him.



TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 10:44:03 AM)

Tampa also added Gronk, Wirfs, Winfield and others to the starting lineup. Brady was the biggest piece, but he was far from the only piece. The Bucs built a great lineup around him.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 10:48:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Tampa also added Gronk, Wirfs, Winfield and others to the starting lineup. Brady was the biggest piece, but he was far from the only piece. The Bucs built a great lineup around him.

They held Kansas City to three field goals. That's the story of the game.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 10:48:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

So Brady capitalized on the turnovers, and didn't make mistakes in the 1st half to put his team in the hole, and did this on the road against quality opposition, and he did the same thing in the SB, against a team that just won the SB the previous year.

There is NO guarantee Cousins would do that.

Only a fool would say any QB could do that. As none of Brady's throws looked terribly difficult, there are probably some that speculate Trubisky, Carr or Cousins could all havemade those throws, but just watching someone play in the clutch, doesn't make another player suddenly clutch.



Make up your mind on which argument you are trying to push. Or better yet, do some research AND then make a claim. Like Brady made the oline better. Prove it. I can post some stats that back up my argument for the SB. Brady was pressured only 3 times (10%) on plays 2.5 or less while Mahomes was pressure 43% in the same situations. Bucs oline had 33 carries, 145 yards, 4.4 average, 1 TD.

Who guaranteed Cousins could do that? [&:]

Who said any QB could do that? [&:] [&:] You need to work on your reading comprehension.

My original points: 1) I'm all for improving the Vikings QB situation. 2) Cousins, inaccurately imo, is getting all the blame for slow starts when it's multiple things.
3) Bucs had a vastly superior team to the Vikings last year in all phases except 1, the run game which was mitigated or caused by scheme (and as you can see the in the SB, ran it pretty effectively). And that the Bucs lifted Brady not the other way around.

1) Ofcourse, nobody should dispute that.

2) Pretty much true.

3) Certainly, the Bucs were a superior team to the Vikings ... vastly on defense, OL and TE. And coaching.

To say that the Bucs would have won big game after big game, from getting the #5 seed in-season as an 11-5 above-average-but-not-really-good-team through winning the SB ... without a Big Game QB, is a feeble argument. That's not what happened in 2020.

Sure, the rest of the team absolutely rose to the occasion, and the Chiefs were not the same team that beat the Bucs during the season.

But 2020 ended with a proven big game player making reads, decisions, throws one necessary play after another, one big game after another.

Cousins is a good QB with a great arm. He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 11:11:42 AM)

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.


Neither has his coach.



TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 11:17:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.


Neither has his coach.

Don't waste your time Jeff. Coaching, worst O-line in football, worst defense in football, worst special teams in football are all irrelevant. It's Cousins. He couldn't over come all of that, ergo he has yet to prove he can win.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 11:26:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.


Neither has his coach.

Don't waste your time Jeff. Coaching, worst O-line in football, worst defense in football, worst special teams in football are all irrelevant. It's Cousins. He couldn't over come all of that, ergo he has yet to prove he can win.


Not the worst O-line in football, not the worst defense in football, not the worst special teams in football. Also no one is claiming Cousins is 100% of the problem. I personally just think he's not as good as his stats and I've put out plenty of situational season-long stats to support that. When you start using absolutes like 'worst this' and 'worst that' and 'people blame it all on Cousins' that really undermines the discussion. Cousins is decent. That's it.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 11:30:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.


Neither has his coach.

Don't waste your time Jeff. Coaching, worst O-line in football, worst defense in football, worst special teams in football are all irrelevant. It's Cousins. He couldn't over come all of that, ergo he has yet to prove he can win.


Not the worst O-line in football, not the worst defense in football, not the worst special teams in football. Also no one is claiming Cousins is 100% of the problem. I personally just think he's not as good as his stats and I've put out plenty of situational season-long stats to support that. When you start using absolutes like 'worst this' and 'worst that' and 'people blame it all on Cousins' that really undermines the discussion. Cousins is decent. That's it.

Very good post.



TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 11:42:18 AM)

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 11:50:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.


100% cousins gets more blame than he should. He’s the QB after all. #8? On his jersey for sure.

Edit - vikes o line was ranked 28. Not last.

Edit again - 28 in pass. 26 overall



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 12:04:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.


100% cousins gets more blame than he should. He’s the QB after all. #8? On his jersey for sure.

Edit - vikes o line was ranked 28. Not last.

Edit again - 28 in pass. 26 overall


Despite not too shabby play from the tackles. That's I was saying the interior offensive line was the worst in NFL history.

Here's a video that I enjoyed watching. It was interesting because of the intensity of the crowd noise (something I really miss) and because our team had a number of stars and they all showed up big time.

Take the time to watch it. You won't be disappointed.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1013205819045424



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 12:05:30 PM)

You know who had a worse line than us in 2020? The cowboys. They managed to go 6-10 vs our 7-9. Oh yeah, and they LOST their starting QB. Still beat us with our starter though.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/2/2021 12:15:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.

I’m not sure if this includes me, I just stated that he does get unfairly critisized two posts above.

That being said, he has had plenty of opportunities in his career, game in and game out, to prove he’s a gamer. Plenty.

He has a lot of skill for sure. You can not seriously deny that he is uneven, at best, in tight situations?



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