quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1.
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2.
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4.

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Glad it was easy. Please show just fumbles as opposed to fumbles lost, thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1. Total fumbles 8
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2. Total fumbles 13
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4. Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost Total fumbles 9
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost Total fumbles 10
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Glad it was easy. Please show just fumbles as opposed to fumbles lost, thanks.

I added that in and bolded it. Also I noticed that Allen had 25 rushing TDs over the three years not 26. He had one receiving TD and that's where I got 26.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1. Total fumbles 8
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2. Total fumbles 13
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4. Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost Total fumbles 9
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost Total fumbles 10
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Glad it was easy. Please show just fumbles as opposed to fumbles lost, thanks.

I added that in and bolded it. Also I noticed that Allen had 25 rushing TDs over the three years not 26. He had one receiving TD and that's where I got 26.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

In regards to lost fumbles by QBs a good stat to show it's possible to 'take good care of the ball' is that Tom Brady had five lost fumbles - over the LAST FIFTEEN SEASONS! Now THAT is ball security both in hanging on to it as well as having pocket presence, getting the ball out quickly, and reading the D to know more often what will be open the quickest. Yes he's the greatest of all time and no one is saying Kirk is better than Tom. I'm just trying to illustrate what 'taking good care of the ball' looks like to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

In regards to lost fumbles by QBs a good stat to show it's possible to 'take good care of the ball' is that Tom Brady had five lost fumbles - over the LAST FIFTEEN SEASONS! Now THAT is ball security both in hanging on to it as well as having pocket presence, getting the ball out quickly, and reading the D to know more often what will be open the quickest. Yes he's the greatest of all time and no one is saying Kirk is better than Tom. I'm just trying to illustrate what 'taking good care of the ball' looks like to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1.
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2.
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4.

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Glad it was easy. Please show just fumbles as opposed to fumbles lost, thanks.

More to the point, I love how the fumble debate got shifted from Cousins vs 13 different QB's listed by Phil to Cousins vs the 3 who run a lot that were picked by Brad, then further narrowed by Brad to Cousins vs Allen. The end result of that argument proves nothing. There isn't anyone posting here who wouldn't take Allen over Cousins. It's no different than posters arguing that Cousins sucks because he isn't as good as Brady.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1. Total fumbles 8
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2. Total fumbles 13
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4. Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost Total fumbles 9
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost Total fumbles 10
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Glad it was easy. Please show just fumbles as opposed to fumbles lost, thanks.

I added that in and bolded it. Also I noticed that Allen had 25 rushing TDs over the three years not 26. He had one receiving TD and that's where I got 26.

It turns out that this stat is a bit trickier. Upon looking into it further I see that the fumbles lost I posted applied ONLY to fumbles lost on a rushing attempt. Total fumbles lost are higher for both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

In regards to lost fumbles by QBs a good stat to show it's possible to 'take good care of the ball' is that Tom Brady had five lost fumbles - over the LAST FIFTEEN SEASONS! Now THAT is ball security both in hanging on to it as well as having pocket presence, getting the ball out quickly, and reading the D to know more often what will be open the quickest. Yes he's the greatest of all time and no one is saying Kirk is better than Tom. I'm just trying to illustrate what 'taking good care of the ball' looks like to me.

One lost fumble per season and 10th best TD/INT rating of all time looks like very good taking care of the ball to me. YMMV.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

Diggs was first-team all pro last year for Buffalo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Just an FYI...adding 1) FA: Woods, PP, Alexander, Tomlinson, Vigil, and Weatherly plus 2) Getting Barr/Pierce/Hunter/Kendricks back healthy and 3) the draft put the Vikes in the to 5-6 roster talk now....there is no excuses for Kirk or anyone. This current roster can and should compete with any team.

If even ONE of those players misses even a few games the excuses will fly.

And it's pretty ironic Phil says "no excuses" because he more than anyone will repeatedly list injuries as an excuse. Udoh misses four games? You can bet Phil will be posting about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

No evidence he wanted out because of Cousins. I know it's popular refrain here, but his comments in Buffalo were complimentary of Cousins.

Easy to speculate on the lockerroom but none of us are a part of it.

Easy to be complimentary after you've left. When Diggs was in MINNESOTA, he was critical of Cousins. Not insanely so but some. His brother was over the top. Remember those texts? Was he the spokesman for Stefon?

I think the same reason OCs love Cousins is why there has been friction with WRs. Shanahan and McVay loved Cousins because he is almost robotic in his read progressions. Option 1, option 2, option 3. WRs just want the damn ball, all the time. And don't get to see how the IOL is collapsing (in real time). They just think they're open all the time [&:]

Being critical (your term not mine) does not equal being a reason Diggs want out.

Could it have been? Sure. But the only reason(s) Diggs has gone on record for wanting to leave (play calling/conservative approach) did not include Cousins.

All I'm saying is I don't know.

His brothers tweets, which you didn't mention, were pretty bad. IMO if Diggs respected Cousins there is no way Diggs' brother would have sent them.

I don't know Diggs' family dynamic. I look at Rodgers and other professional family situations/incidents and am not willing to put a lot of stock in it.

I have 4 younger brothers and wouldn't put it past any of them to go off the rails and put me in an awkward situation.

I'd say you and Diggs are much different situations. The tweets were brutal. And it's not like KC was the opposition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats.

They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves.

Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble.
Philip Rivers, one.
Ben Roethlisberger, zero.

Why? Because they take care of the ball.

Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact.

Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit?

Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs.

I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child.

Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument.

No thank you. Innocent until proven guilty. You say I'm wrong. Prove it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2020, Cousins had the 5th highest interception rate among passers with over 350 attempts. Only Wentz, Lock, Darnold, and Newton were ahead of him.

That is NOT taking "very good care" (per KGBum) of the ball.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2020, Cousins had the 5th highest interception rate among passers with over 350 attempts. Only Wentz, Lock, Darnold, and Newton were ahead of him.

That is NOT taking "very good care" (per KGBum) of the ball.

Shhhhhh. Quit posting important facts. According to TJSweens, it is all meaningless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats.

They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves.

Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble.
Philip Rivers, one.
Ben Roethlisberger, zero.

Why? Because they take care of the ball.

Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact.

Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit?

Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs.

I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child.

Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument.

No thank you. Innocent until proven guilty. You say I'm wrong. Prove it.

This is the problem.

You throw out a hand-picked stat to make a point.

Someone debunks that stat.

You step left and change the stat to fit better.

That is also debunked.

Days later, you come back and restate the original debunked stat like something new and freshly served up.

You have no interest in the proofs that are plucked from your puddings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2020, Cousins had the 5th highest interception rate among passers with over 350 attempts. Only Wentz, Lock, Darnold, and Newton were ahead of him.

That is NOT taking "very good care" (per KGBum) of the ball.

Shhhhhh. Quit posting important facts. According to TJSweens, it is all meaningless.

That's a bald faced lie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2020, Cousins had the 5th highest interception rate among passers with over 350 attempts. Only Wentz, Lock, Darnold, and Newton were ahead of him.

That is NOT taking "very good care" (per KGBum) of the ball.

Shhhhhh. Quit posting important facts. According to TJSweens, it is all meaningless.

That's a bald faced lie.

Not a lie at all. Look back at your posts. They are all there to see. Get the popcorn.