quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2020, Cousins had the 5th highest interception rate among passers with over 350 attempts. Only Wentz, Lock, Darnold, and Newton were ahead of him.

That is NOT taking "very good care" (per KGBum) of the ball.

Shhhhhh. Quit posting important facts. According to TJSweens, it is all meaningless.

That's a bald faced lie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2020, Cousins had the 5th highest interception rate among passers with over 350 attempts. Only Wentz, Lock, Darnold, and Newton were ahead of him.

That is NOT taking "very good care" (per KGBum) of the ball.

Shhhhhh. Quit posting important facts. According to TJSweens, it is all meaningless.

That's a bald faced lie.

How many passers were just under 350 attempts? (there are quite a few :)) (Garroppolo/Mullens, Minshew, Dalton, Fitz, Trubixky, Prescott, Foles, Tua, Smith, Haskins...to name just a few/bunch)

More than a slight reak of cherry pickings....

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/passing/2020/REG/all/passingYards/DESC?aftercursor=0000001900000000008500100079000840a47800000000006e00000005000000045f74626c00000010706572736f6e5f7465616d5f737461740000000565736249640000000957454e36313537373000000004726f6c6500000003504c5900000008736561736f6e496400000004323032300000000a736561736f6e5479706500000003524547f07fffffe6f07fffffe6dfa1ba79872e6c9d5e6282cd124308e70004

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Let’s fill in the non fumble stats:

Att 15th, Comp 13th, Comp % 9th, Yds 8th, Y/A 2nd, FD% T2nd, 20+ T5th, TD 6th, TD% 5th, Int T3rd, Int% 11th, Sacks 6th, Rating 8th

The good: Despite being only 15th in attempts, Cousins 8th in yards, 6th in TD. This was fueled by the 2nd best Yards per attempt and the 5th best TD% in the NFL. He is also very good in the percentage categories, good at picking up first downs and completing passes over 20 yeards.

The bad: No doubt about it. Cousins turns the ball over too much. Too many interceptions. Too many fumbles. He gets sacked too much. A lot of it is IOL, but he does have those moments where he just straight holds the ball too long.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats.

They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves.

Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble.
Philip Rivers, one.
Ben Roethlisberger, zero.

Why? Because they take care of the ball.

Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact.

Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit?

Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs.

I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child.

Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument.

No thank you. Innocent until proven guilty. You say I'm wrong. Prove it.

This is the problem.

You throw out a hand-picked stat to make a point.

Someone debunks that stat.

You step left and change the stat to fit better.

That is also debunked.

Days later, you come back and restate the original debunked stat like something new and freshly served up.

You have no interest in the proofs that are plucked from your puddings.

Who has debunked that stat? Nobody has debunked that stat. They have tried to minimize its importance, but nobody has succeeded. You can't be bad during crunch time. It's the ultimate stat. And he was bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

Diggs was first-team all pro last year for Buffalo.

So did Cousins help JJ any? The rookie performed and I think KC helped also in that regard....

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Let’s fill in the non fumble stats:

Att 15th, Comp 13th, Comp % 9th, Yds 8th, Y/A 2nd, FD% T2nd, 20+ T5th, TD 6th, TD% 5th, Int T3rd, Int% 11th, Sacks 6th, Rating 8th

The good: Despite being only 15th in attempts, Cousins 8th in yards, 6th in TD. This was fueled by the 2nd best Yards per attempt and the 5th best TD% in the NFL. He is also very good in the percentage categories, good at picking up first downs and completing passes over 20 yeards.

The bad: No doubt about it. Cousins turns the ball over too much. Too many interceptions. Too many fumbles. He gets sacked too much. A lot of it is IOL, but he does have those moments where he just straight holds the ball too long.

The QB rating score put him 8th in the league. Overall, Cousins does a lot of things well and some things poorly. All in all, he will move the chains and put a lot of points on the board with some missteps along the way. When you put it all together, you have the guy that several have already described as...not the guy who will carry the team on his back to a championship or even drag it across the finish line. He is a guy who is good enough to win a Superbowl as part of a good football team.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Some stats just don't quantify what a player actually is.

Cousins seems to do well when there's nothing to play for. But when we need him to extend a drive in the final 10 minutes of a game he'd just fold like a cheap suit. There is certainly blame to go around such as terrible protection and turtle mode football by Zim. I think Bradbury had an errant snap in the final 2 minute of the Tennesee game. But all in all Cousins just looks scared during crunch time and it just reeks of poor leadership qualities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2020, Cousins had the 5th highest interception rate among passers with over 350 attempts. Only Wentz, Lock, Darnold, and Newton were ahead of him.

That is NOT taking "very good care" (per KGBum) of the ball.

Shhhhhh. Quit posting important facts. According to TJSweens, it is all meaningless.

That's a bald faced lie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats.

They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves.

Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble.
Philip Rivers, one.
Ben Roethlisberger, zero.

Why? Because they take care of the ball.

Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact.

Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit?

Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs.

I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child.

Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument.

No thank you. Innocent until proven guilty. You say I'm wrong. Prove it.

This is the problem.

You throw out a hand-picked stat to make a point.

Someone debunks that stat.

You step left and change the stat to fit better.

That is also debunked.

Days later, you come back and restate the original debunked stat like something new and freshly served up.

You have no interest in the proofs that are plucked from your puddings.

Who has debunked that stat? Nobody has debunked that stat. They have tried to minimize its importance, but nobody has succeeded. You can't be bad during crunch time. It's the ultimate stat. And he was bad.

Debunked all the time. Often. Frequently. Emphatically.

Lots of things happen inside of 2 minutes not represented in your feeble stat. As an example, how much scoring was orchestrated by KC in the last 2 minutes (TDs, field goal position, etc)?

Ironically, I have always said that KC is not good in crunch time. And that he has too many turnovers.

However, Cousins may be TO happy but he’s my TO happy QB. I’m critical of him when its deserved, accurate, representative.

You seem to be digging around for loose unrelated stats just to stick it to him with (and by proxy, the posters in here). Its not enough that he’s bad at some things (or good), you’re on a quest to make him look like the worst at everything. Its simply mot true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats.

They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves.

Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble.
Philip Rivers, one.
Ben Roethlisberger, zero.

Why? Because they take care of the ball.

Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact.

Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit?

Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs.

I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child.

Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument.

No thank you. Innocent until proven guilty. You say I'm wrong. Prove it.

This is the problem.

You throw out a hand-picked stat to make a point.

Someone debunks that stat.

You step left and change the stat to fit better.

That is also debunked.

Days later, you come back and restate the original debunked stat like something new and freshly served up.

You have no interest in the proofs that are plucked from your puddings.

Who has debunked that stat? Nobody has debunked that stat. They have tried to minimize its importance, but nobody has succeeded. You can't be bad during crunch time. It's the ultimate stat. And he was bad.

Debunked all the time. Often. Frequently. Emphatically.

Lots of things happen inside of 2 minutes not represented in your feeble stat. As an example, how much scoring was orchestrated by KC in the last 2 minutes (TDs, field goal position, etc)?

Ironically, I have always said that KC is not good in crunch time. And that he has too many turnovers.

However, Cousins may be TO happy but he’s my TO happy QB. I’m critical of him when its deserved, accurate, representative.

You seem to be digging around for loose unrelated stats just to stick it to him (and by proxy, the posters in here). Its not enough that he’s bad at some things (or good), you’re on a quest to make him look like the worst at everything. Its simply not true.

The post that should end "this session" of the Cousins debate (at least for the next 72 hours).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats.

They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves.

Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble.
Philip Rivers, one.
Ben Roethlisberger, zero.

Why? Because they take care of the ball.

Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact.

Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit?

Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs.

I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child.

Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument.

No thank you. Innocent until proven guilty. You say I'm wrong. Prove it.

This is the problem.

You throw out a hand-picked stat to make a point.

Someone debunks that stat.

You step left and change the stat to fit better.

That is also debunked.

Days later, you come back and restate the original debunked stat like something new and freshly served up.

You have no interest in the proofs that are plucked from your puddings.

Who has debunked that stat? Nobody has debunked that stat. They have tried to minimize its importance, but nobody has succeeded. You can't be bad during crunch time. It's the ultimate stat. And he was bad.

Debunked all the time. Often. Frequently. Emphatically.

Lots of things happen inside of 2 minutes not represented in your feeble stat. As an example, how much scoring was orchestrated by KC in the last 2 minutes (TDs, field goal position, etc)?

Ironically, I have always said that KC is not good in crunch time. And that he has too many turnovers.

However, Cousins may be TO happy but he’s my TO happy QB. I’m critical of him when its deserved, accurate, representative.

You seem to be digging around for loose unrelated stats just to stick it to him with (and by proxy, the posters in here). Its not enough that he’s bad at some things (or good), you’re on a quest to make him look like the worst at everything. Its simply mot true.

The post that should end "this session" of the Cousins debate (at least for the next 72 hours).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

The thread since the Draft.

Cousin Sucks
No he doesn't
Yes he does
No he doesn't
Yes he does
Here's a cherry picked stat no he doesn't
Here's a dherry picked stat, yes he does
Hey guys, our oline sucks
doesn't matter cousins sucks,
no he doesn't
yes he does
no he doesn't
yes he does
Your stats are wrong. No he doesn't
Yes he does
Your an asshole
so are you
and Cousins doesn't suck
yes he does
no he doesn't
yes he does
no he doesn't
yes he does
Random QB doesn't suck like Cousins
No cousins is better
no he's worse
no he's better
no he's worse
no he's better
no he's worse
Hey guys can we talk about something else
**** off TGS
Cousins sucks
no he doesn't
yes he does
no he doesn't
yes he does
no he doesn't
you suck
no I don't
yes you do
no I don't
yes you do
I don't
Cousin still sucks here's another cherry picked stat
No he doesn't your stat is meaningless
no it isn't
yes it is
no it isn't
yes it is
no it isn't

then TGS makes a smarmy ass post

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Makes me think back to the Ponder days and how annoying it must have gotten reading my one note posts harping on the guy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Makes me think back to the Ponder days and how annoying it must have gotten reading my one note posts harping on the guy.

And you were right.

The well-wishers and dreamers will always try to find something that fits their narrative. We all want a Lombardi Trophy.

I prefer to take a more grounded approach to the issue. How does Kirk Cousins do when it matters? In the final two minutes of halves last year, he had the #30 quarterback rating. That is an irrefutable fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

This current roster of "No excuses for Kirk or anyone... it can and should compete with any team." must be exciting for those who play the SB in their minds in June. I see fault lines:

- The chances of both Darrisaw and Davis panning out is low. Well, maybe they will eventually but not as early as they are needed (like in three months). This is a reasonable assessment. Two rookies on the line breaking out and dominating right away is a lot to ask. I would argue though that the real need is that they are better than their predecessors. Reif was a league average LT. I think Darrisaw can be at least that. More importantly, despite growing pains, I expect Davis to be a significant upgrade from Dozier.

- Bradbury's excuse this year is better players around him will make him better.
This will require Davis to be able to stand up big DT's and Cleveland to have added some size and strength. It also requires Bradubury himself to get a little stronger. Lots of moving parts on this one.

- Not sold on Irv Smith, although he and a couple of TEs show flashes.
I'm sold on Irv. He won't be the back of the endzone jumbo target, but I like him better in all other phases of the game.

- WR depth is a shambles.
Agreed. I have no faith in anyone beyond Jefferson and Thielen.

- RDE looks to be via committee, and that is assuming Hunter will play.
This is the size 16 EEE shoe that everyone is waiting for to drop. If Hunter comes back, we are fine. Then Weatherly, Wonnum, Mata'afa and the rookies should function well in situational roles. Zim & Patterson like to play mix and match on the d-line.

- The secondary is a huge question. Neither Smith nor Patterson are what they were a few years ago (players get Pro Bowl nods well past when they should). Dantzler and Woods will have to be playing superb but they likely are not ready to. Alexander is the very definition of journeyman at the point, whereby knowing the system is his main positive.
This one is huge. I expect this unit to be better than last year. The problem is that it is not enough to simply be better than last years bunch. They need to be a whole lot better and then some.

- I like Pierce and Tomlinson for stopping the run, but neither has shown they can get to the QB. Tomlinson may be able to be that pass rushing presence but I'd say the odds are below average or 50-50 tops. And you can't sub him out all the time (besides, who is the 3T?).
Tomlinson is the 3T. I don't think they have to get their hands on the QB to be effective against the pass. If they consume blockers and push the pocket, they can disrupt the QB and make it easier for the ends and blitzers. On passing downs, I expect Weatherly and or Mata'afa to slide over to tackle a lot of the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Makes me think back to the Ponder days and how annoying it must have gotten reading my one note posts harping on the guy.

And you were right.

The well-wishers and dreamers will always try to find something that fits their narrative. We all want a Lombardi Trophy.

I prefer to take a more grounded approach to the issue. How does Kirk Cousins do when it matters? In the final two minutes of halves last year, he had the #30 quarterback rating. That is an irrefutable fact.

Several pages back, you said the last two minutes of half stat was "the only stat that mattered". Mitch Trubisky ranked #3 by that stat in 2020. By your logic, Mitch Trubisky is a great QB. Better than Josh Allen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Reasonable assessments...hmmm...yes...indubitably..

Better than this or that sucks.

I'm all in. I think if we were a bigger group there'd be more with me.

People want to argue what's not good enough like you get points for it or something.

We've got talent. Period. I like having faith that it's all going to come together.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Reasonable assessments...hmmm...yes...indubitably..

Better than this or that sucks.

I'm all in. I think if we were a bigger group there'd be more with me.

People want to argue what's not good enough like you get points for it or something.

We've got talent. Period. I like having faith that it's all going to come together.