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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:26:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer I'm guessing JJ will force his way out of Minnesota. Honestly who could blame him? My god you are bitter. Give it a rest. Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Herbert are not available for trade. Rodgers and Brady are tool old. Outside of that Cousins is about on par with the rest. Which means you need a lot of players and quality coaching to win. I was at the game today. Dropped a ridiculous amount of money on tickets for my family and from the stands the defense looked to only have 9 guys on the field much of the time. So damn slow and out of position it was laughable. Looked like a bad small town high school team. Cousins isn’t one of the top QBs but he isn’t the problem. Not forcing a punt until 4 minutes left in 3rd qtr is a much bigger problem. Vikings I don’t think even forced a 3rd down on the first two drives. Forced one 4th down in first half. A dozen or more QBs have been drafted the past few years in be first round that suck or can’t stay healthy or both. You can draft Cousins replacement and have him win the job but there isn’t a damn thing out there for a realistic trade. I guess they should tank and get the next Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, team cancer Murray, always hurt Tua, Mr INT Dak, and on and on and on. Where did I say it was all about Cousins? You're kind of proving my point. Maybe you're bitter because you sat through it? I think he missed Cousins' last pass [&:][&:]

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:27:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years? Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement. Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27. Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown. Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker. Fields does one read and takes off running. Doesn’t work for long. Jones has more to prove than looking good against Vikings, everybody does that. Philly is a maybe and Shanahan seems to be so good offensively thst it doesn’t matter. In todays league he might be the best coach. Enough with the hypotheticals involving trades or draft picks: Cousins shit the bed with the season on the line. That is who he is. Yes, and you have to deal with it until you find better. Like 27 other teams. Some people need to just stop being fans until they get word the Vikings have a verified HOF QB that is 23 years old. I'd settle for a 12 to 15 qb and a 15 defense at this point. How will they even achieve that with no draft capital?

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:30:03 AM)
I am not bitter at all. I thought cousins played outstanding. Defense is awful. You don’t make runs with the worst defense to ever play in playoffs. The constant qb bashing here is getting dumb. It’s like you want Cousins cut and plug in a DIII bench warmer, just so you have something new to bitch about. 27 teams are in same boat or worse. Deal with it.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:31:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I am not bitter at all. I thought cousins played outstanding. Defense is awful. You don’t make runs with the worst defense to ever play in playoffs. The constant qb bashing here is getting dumb. It’s like you want Cousins cut and plug in a DIII bench warmer, just so you have something new to bitch about. 27 teams are in same boat or worse. Deal with it. No 27 teams are not. Plenty aren't allotting a huge percentage of cap space to a middling qb.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:32:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.? Kirk is a statue, very little ability to make a play from nothing. He needs elite protection. A Burrow, any of these young QBs would have been able to sense any pressure, roll out and give their guys a chance to get open. Kirk has no hope in these situations. And I might add, he's not a good leader. When I see a guy go to his helmet with his hands in a two-minute drill, it tells me he isn't running the show. I want a guy that directs traffic when it matters. Some would say Cousins played his best football this season. I still don't see him winning a big game when it matters.

BisonFan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:32:57 AM)
My thoughts about yesterday. I was at the game and the stadium was electric and the fans did their part. It pains me to say this but the "old" starts on defense, Smith, Kendricks, and Peterson were obviously slow and don't have what it takes to be starters for our team. I have loved watching Thielen play but he has lost a couple of steps. The quarterback throw back on third down was an absolute momentum killer. No need to get tricky with a yard to go, Cousins isn't exactly a speedster. The offensive line did alright but definitely still needs improvement. The final fourth down play was horrible. Finally and most obvious, Donatell's defense didn't shine or even sparkle a little. No imagination or aggressiveness. DONATELL NEEDS TO BE FIRED BY THE END OF TODAY!!!! I guess it is time to start thinking about who is going to be released and the draft. SKOL!

Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:33:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years? Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement. Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27. Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown. Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker. Fields does one read and takes off running. Doesn’t work for long. Jones has more to prove than looking good against Vikings, everybody does that. Philly is a maybe and Shanahan seems to be so good offensively thst it doesn’t matter. In todays league he might be the best coach. Then you have teams like Jets, draft high and get nothing. Denver and Arizona might have just screwed themselves for several years with their huge deals for awful QB play. If you think the next qb is available, draft him and let him prove it. But you don’t get rid of Kirk and then worry about it. Why not? With the cap space he eats up we'd never be able to put together a good enough team to compete for the Super Bowl. Why not build the team up while continuing to hunt for a young elite QB. Look at San Fran as an example.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:33:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.? Kirk is a statue, very little ability to make a play from nothing. He needs elite protection. A Burrow, any of these young QBs would have been able to sense any pressure, roll out and give their guys a chance to get open. Kirk has no hope in these situations. And I might add, he's not a good leader. When I see a guy go to his helmet with his hands in a two-minute drill, it tells me he isn't running the show. I want a guy that directs traffic when it matters. He does that even when it's not loud. The guy is a robotic nutcase.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:37:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.? Kirk is a statue, very little ability to make a play from nothing. He needs elite protection. A Burrow, any of these young QBs would have been able to sense any pressure, roll out and give their guys a chance to get open. Kirk has no hope in these situations. And I might add, he's not a good leader. When I see a guy go to his helmet with his hands in a two-minute drill, it tells me he isn't running the show. I want a guy that directs traffic when it matters. He does that even when it's not loud. The guy is a robotic nutcase. Personally, I can't stand watching the guy. I know a turnover is right around the corner. This is a 8-9 football team (at-best) next season without significant upgrades on defense. With significant upgrades, maybe they get to 10-7.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:38:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I am not bitter at all. I thought cousins played outstanding. Defense is awful. You don’t make runs with the worst defense to ever play in playoffs. The constant qb bashing here is getting dumb. It’s like you want Cousins cut and plug in a DIII bench warmer, just so you have something new to bitch about. 27 teams are in same boat or worse. Deal with it. Minnesota is not the first fan base to bash Cousins. Cousins stats were very good but "played outstanding" includes not being an 11 year veteran throwing short with the season on the line. Strange morning for you to be a Cousins backer considering the football world is saying that failure under pressure only reinforces who Cousins is.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:39:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.? Kirk is a statue, very little ability to make a play from nothing. He needs elite protection. A Burrow, any of these young QBs would have been able to sense any pressure, roll out and give their guys a chance to get open. Kirk has no hope in these situations. And I might add, he's not a good leader. When I see a guy go to his helmet with his hands in a two-minute drill, it tells me he isn't running the show. I want a guy that directs traffic when it matters. He does that even when it's not loud. The guy is a robotic nutcase. Personally, I can't stand watching the guy. I know a turnover is right around the corner. This is a 8-9 football team next season without significant upgrades on defense. Against the schedule we're going to play I think you're being kind. I'm still trying to figure out how they improve the defense much with no draft picks.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:41:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.? Kirk is a statue, very little ability to make a play from nothing. He needs elite protection. A Burrow, any of these young QBs would have been able to sense any pressure, roll out and give their guys a chance to get open. Kirk has no hope in these situations. And I might add, he's not a good leader. When I see a guy go to his helmet with his hands in a two-minute drill, it tells me he isn't running the show. I want a guy that directs traffic when it matters. He does that even when it's not loud. The guy is a robotic nutcase. Personally, I can't stand watching the guy. I know a turnover is right around the corner. This is a 8-9 football team next season without significant upgrades on defense. Against the schedule we're going to play I think you're being kind. I'm still trying to figure out how they improve the defense much with no draft picks. People also forget that this offense stayed fairly healthy this season. The o-line had a few games missed by Darrisaw, Bradbury and O'Neill, but for the most part they were pretty healthy. Those things go in cycles. If two go down in the preseason they could be 4-13.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:42:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I am not bitter at all. I thought cousins played outstanding. Defense is awful. You don’t make runs with the worst defense to ever play in playoffs. The constant qb bashing here is getting dumb. It’s like you want Cousins cut and plug in a DIII bench warmer, just so you have something new to bitch about. 27 teams are in same boat or worse. Deal with it. Minnesota is not the first fan base to bash Cousins. Cousins stats were very good but "played outstanding" includes not being an 11 year veteran throwing short with the season on the line. Strange morning for you to be a Cousins backer considering the football world is saying that failure under pressure only reinforces who Cousins is. He eats up all that cap space to not even try for a 1st down in that situation? It's ridiculous.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:49:56 AM)
Most people would agree that Kirk Cousins easily had the best season of his career in 2022. He still only had the No. 14 QB Rating in the league. That's the high point people, and we're paying $48,750,000 (dead cap value) for it. Cousins came out today and said he loves playing for the Vikings. Of course he does. I would too. BTW, Daniel Jones had the No. 7 QBR.

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:50:45 AM)
The one word that sums the season for me is “mystifying”. I have no idea how we ended up with our record with such a terrible defense. And being ranked 31 of 32 is really terrible. The sad part of it is we will have to scrap and rebuild that side of the ball from the top down. With little money and not many picks, that process is going to take a while.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:51:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most people would agree that Kirk Cousins easily had the best season of his career in 2022. He still only had the No. 14 QB Rating in the league. That's the high point people, and we're paying $48,750,000 (dead cap value) for it. Yuck. JC is right. The ultimate tease.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:51:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I am not bitter at all. I thought cousins played outstanding. Defense is awful. You don’t make runs with the worst defense to ever play in playoffs. The constant qb bashing here is getting dumb. It’s like you want Cousins cut and plug in a DIII bench warmer, just so you have something new to bitch about. 27 teams are in same boat or worse. Deal with it. Minnesota is not the first fan base to bash Cousins. Cousins stats were very good but "played outstanding" includes not being an 11 year veteran throwing short with the season on the line. Strange morning for you to be a Cousins backer considering the football world is saying that failure under pressure only reinforces who Cousins is. He eats up all that cap space to not even try for a 1st down in that situation? It's ridiculous. Another example is that 4th down red zone play a couple of years ago. Rather than risk a pick he lobbed it into the stands. It is who he is. Granted there were times this year where it was like he mentally flipped and was winging the ball all over the place with crazy success. But those times were not the norm.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:54:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu The one word that sums the season for me is “mystifying”. I have no idea how we ended up with our record with such a terrible defense. And being ranked 31 of 32 is really terrible. The sad part of it is we will have to scrap and rebuild that side of the ball from the top down. With little money and not many picks, that process is going to take a while. Exactly why I'm not envisioning Jefferson staying. It won't break my heart as I don't put stock in players as much anymore. Ever since the Moss trade I know they're just pieces to move around.

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:57:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu The one word that sums the season for me is “mystifying”. I have no idea how we ended up with our record with such a terrible defense. And being ranked 31 of 32 is really terrible. The sad part of it is we will have to scrap and rebuild that side of the ball from the top down. With little money and not many picks, that process is going to take a while. Exactly why I'm not envisioning Jefferson staying. It won't break my heart as I don't put stock in players as much anymore. Ever since the Moss trade I know they're just pieces to move around. I didn’t want to say it like that, Rich, but that thought should be at least discussed. Nothing should be off the table to this point.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:58:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I am not bitter at all. I thought cousins played outstanding. Defense is awful. You don’t make runs with the worst defense to ever play in playoffs. The constant qb bashing here is getting dumb. It’s like you want Cousins cut and plug in a DIII bench warmer, just so you have something new to bitch about. 27 teams are in same boat or worse. Deal with it. Minnesota is not the first fan base to bash Cousins. Cousins stats were very good but "played outstanding" includes not being an 11 year veteran throwing short with the season on the line. Strange morning for you to be a Cousins backer considering the football world is saying that failure under pressure only reinforces who Cousins is. He eats up all that cap space to not even try for a 1st down in that situation? It's ridiculous. Another example is that 4th down red zone play a couple of years ago. Rather than risk a pick he lobbed it into the stands. It is who he is. Granted there were times this year where it was like he mentally flipped and was winging the ball all over the place with crazy success. But those times were not the norm. I remember Culpepper doing that too. 4th and goal, game on the line, and he threw it out of the back of the endzone. Maddening.

drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:58:25 AM)
not terribly unexpected, but at least it wasnt embarrassing. to me, it felt like the keenum year...fun, but not enough to win it all, so just enjoy the run...enjoy the wins, the catch, etc... defense was too much of a liability for me to buy in all year. keenum year without a minneapolis miracle

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 8:59:28 AM)
Slayton dropped another TD late (before our last drive) on another crossing route. The problem currently with the offense isn't Cousins; it is with Cook. He is Cooked on short runs. Defense needs to be taken back to the studs which should have happened 2 years ago but Zimmer/Spielman hated rebuilds....so 2 years later we need a defense rebuild. Safetys and LB can't cover speedy RBs or crossing patterns. Harry, Hicks, Kendricks, Cook, Thielen need to be cut; football is a young mans game. I love what Peterson brought and he was an All-Pro but we have to say goodbye. Dantzler has too many injuries and personal problems to keep. Plenty of cap to rebuild the defense and add a couple pieces in FA and hopefully a good draft.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:00:52 AM)
Take a knee in 98, 41 doughnut, 12 men on the field, choke after the miracle and now short of the sticks to end the season - sigh

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:01:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu The one word that sums the season for me is “mystifying”. I have no idea how we ended up with our record with such a terrible defense. And being ranked 31 of 32 is really terrible. The sad part of it is we will have to scrap and rebuild that side of the ball from the top down. With little money and not many picks, that process is going to take a while. Exactly why I'm not envisioning Jefferson staying. It won't break my heart as I don't put stock in players as much anymore. Ever since the Moss trade I know they're just pieces to move around. I didn’t want to say it like that, Rich, but that thought should be at least discussed. Nothing should be off the table to this point. I'd love to keep him of course. I just don't know if it's going to work out that way. He may not want to he involved in a multiple year rebuild. The team may trade him for a huge amount of picks. Who knows.

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: drviking not terribly unexpected, but at least it wasnt embarrassing. to me, it felt like the keenum year...fun, but not enough to win it all, so just enjoy the run...enjoy the wins, the catch, etc... defense was too much of a liability for me to buy in all year. keenum year without a minneapolis miracle I certainly try to tell myself just enjoy it, it's not a big deal, but man really frustrating to see other organization who haven't won a Super Bowl building towards giving themselves chances like Cincy and Jax. Hell, I even love the young team Detroit has. Just really depressing this team has never won a Super Bowl, and doesn't really seem they are on a path to building one at the moment. In fact things may need to get worse for a year or 2, before they get better

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