RE: General Vikes Talk

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Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:03:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Take a knee in 98, 41 doughnut, 12 men on the field, choke after the miracle and now short of the sticks to end the season - sigh Courtney Cronin showed the play...there wasn't anyone open and a DLineman breaking in on Kirk....KJ was open a second later but it was very good coverage. They play call should have been reversed (Play calls on 3rd and 4th down) and it probably would have worked. They went with a 15 yard route to KJ when they only need 8.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:06:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Take a knee in 98, 41 doughnut, 12 men on the field, choke after the miracle and now short of the sticks to end the season - sigh Courtney Cronin showed the play...there wasn't anyone open and a DLineman breaking in on Kirk....KJ was open a second later but it was very good coverage. They play call should have been reversed (Play calls on 3rd and 4th down) and it probably would have worked. They went with a 15 yard route to KJ when they only need 8. Did the bills have good coverage on the JJ catch? Sometimes you have to throw it up and hope for a play. Throwing for 3 when you needed 8 is dumb.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:09:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Take a knee in 98, 41 doughnut, 12 men on the field, choke after the miracle and now short of the sticks to end the season - sigh Courtney Cronin showed the play...there wasn't anyone open and a DLineman breaking in on Kirk....KJ was open a second later but it was very good coverage. They play call should have been reversed (Play calls on 3rd and 4th down) and it probably would have worked. They went with a 15 yard route to KJ when they only need 8. Did the bills have good coverage on the JJ catch? Sometimes you have to throw it up and hope for a play. Throwing for 3 when you needed 8 is dumb. Yes but that was a miracle play and he had more time. Your are assuming the protection was there; it wasn't.

drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:09:21 AM)
good year for a first year HC, saw some mistakes and some shortcomings, so lets see how he self-evaluates and gets better... solid year for first year GM, some nice additions, questionable draft, not sure on some of the contract restructures, it will be interesting to see the direction this offseason roster showed what most of us assumed, we were better than what Zim was getting out of them, but there are several spots that need to be moved on from the most obvious to me are (without looking at some of the problematic salary cap implications) Theilen Kendricks Cook Harrison Smith Hicks Ham I was OK with moving on from Cousins last year, but they decided to stay with him, so we are locked in one more year with him, I hope that is his last but will not meltdown if he is extended to something "reasonable" for a contract Jefferson and TJ are important future pieces ESPECIALLY if we go the route of a young QB, which we may have to if we are paying them big money

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:09:43 AM)
As I see it, these are the teams that definitely should be looking for a quarterback in the off-season. Las Vegas (Carr will be somewhere else) Tampa Indianapolis Washington Rams New Orleans Green Bay (I think Rodgers is done with football) Dolphins (too many headaches for Tua, he needs to retire or be brain dead) LA Rams These are teams that should consider looking for a new quarterback next season. Atlanta (has an unproven rookie) New York Jets Houston Carolina New England (Mac Jones will lose the internal battle with Belichick) These are teams that are screwed because they are hooked into a crazy deal. Dallas Minnesota Arizona Tennessee Cleveland Denver These teams are totally comfortable with their quarterback situation. Kansas City Buffalo Pittsburgh Cincinnati Chargers Philadelphia NY Giants San Francisco Seattle Detroit Chicago (for one more year) Baltimore

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:10:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Take a knee in 98, 41 doughnut, 12 men on the field, choke after the miracle and now short of the sticks to end the season - sigh Courtney Cronin showed the play...there wasn't anyone open and a DLineman breaking in on Kirk....KJ was open a second later but it was very good coverage. They play call should have been reversed (Play calls on 3rd and 4th down) and it probably would have worked. They went with a 15 yard route to KJ when they only need 8. Did the bills have good coverage on the JJ catch? Sometimes you have to throw it up and hope for a play. Throwing for 3 when you needed 8 is dumb. Yes but that was a miracle play and he had more time. Your are assuming the protection was there; it wasn't. He had time to throw it to Hock but not throw up a prayer? Even if it was a floater? Sorry not buying it.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:10:54 AM)
The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:11:56 AM)
BTW, the call for roughing the passer on the Giants was an awful call. Lets not forget that break.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:12:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Take a knee in 98, 41 doughnut, 12 men on the field, choke after the miracle and now short of the sticks to end the season - sigh Courtney Cronin showed the play...there wasn't anyone open and a DLineman breaking in on Kirk....KJ was open a second later but it was very good coverage. They play call should have been reversed (Play calls on 3rd and 4th down) and it probably would have worked. They went with a 15 yard route to KJ when they only need 8. Did the bills have good coverage on the JJ catch? Sometimes you have to throw it up and hope for a play. Throwing for 3 when you needed 8 is dumb. Yes but that was a miracle play and he had more time. Your are assuming the protection was there; it wasn't. He had time to throw it to Hock but not throw up a prayer? Even if it was a floater? Sorry not buying it. Agreed. If the season is going to live or die on that throw, you throw JJs way and give him a chance to make the play.

drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:13:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass. and last play short of the sticks

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:13:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H BTW, the call for roughing the passer on the Giants was an awful call. Lets not forget that break. It was a hand to the helmet before the throw down that I believe caused it.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:13:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H BTW, the call for roughing the passer on the Giants was an awful call. Lets not forget that break. Yes it was. Yet you still hear Vikes fans blaming officials. I thought they were pretty solid overall until that call.

drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:14:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H BTW, the call for roughing the passer on the Giants was an awful call. Lets not forget that break. It was a hand to the helmet before the throw down that I believe caused it. meh...hyperbole... it wasnt awful, it wasnt great....questionable at best

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:14:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass. The Giants had the ball for over 33.5 minutes. The defense was the difference.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:14:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H BTW, the call for roughing the passer on the Giants was an awful call. Lets not forget that break. It was a hand to the helmet before the throw down that I believe caused it. QB gets clubbed across the head, it's going to be 15 yards every time.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:15:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: drviking quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H BTW, the call for roughing the passer on the Giants was an awful call. Lets not forget that break. It was a hand to the helmet before the throw down that I believe caused it. meh...hyperbole... it wasnt awful, it wasnt great....questionable at best It was an attempted tackle. That's it. There was nothing malicious about it whatsoever. It wasn't late. Cousins wasn't defenseless. It wasn't to the head.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:15:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass. The Giants had the ball for over 33.5 minutes. The defense was the difference. You sustain those two drives and the TOP is really close.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:17:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass. The Giants had the ball for over 33.5 minutes. The defense was the difference. You sustain those two drives and the TOP is really close. The same could be said for the Slayton drop for New York. Those are individual plays. It happens in any game.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:17:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu The one word that sums the season for me is “mystifying”. I have no idea how we ended up with our record with such a terrible defense. And being ranked 31 of 32 is really terrible. The sad part of it is we will have to scrap and rebuild that side of the ball from the top down. With little money and not many picks, that process is going to take a while. Exactly why I'm not envisioning Jefferson staying. It won't break my heart as I don't put stock in players as much anymore. Ever since the Moss trade I know they're just pieces to move around. I didn’t want to say it like that, Rich, but that thought should be at least discussed. Nothing should be off the table to this point. I'd love to keep him of course. I just don't know if it's going to work out that way. He may not want to he involved in a multiple year rebuild. The team may trade him for a huge amount of picks. Who knows. If we had a couple of extra first rounders, had several backups projecting to be solid starters, had a QBOTF on a low initial contract, etc. then I'd slant to wanting to keep him. But with bare cupboards to basically replace the entire D, the entire IOL, and soon the QB position, they should definitely look at options to trade Jefferson. He is our single most valuable asset and he is not going to lead us to a SB anytime in the foreseeable future. Maybe he will help as he approaches 30 while looking for his next contract after the upcoming one, but not soon. Like Calvin Johnson and many others, his prime years will be wasted.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:18:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass. The Giants had the ball for over 33.5 minutes. The defense was the difference. You sustain those two drives and the TOP is really close. The Giants had drops and busted plays too. They still controlled TOP.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:18:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H BTW, the call for roughing the passer on the Giants was an awful call. Lets not forget that break. It was a hand to the helmet before the throw down that I believe caused it. It was a bail out. Nothing more. Terrible call.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:18:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass. The Giants had the ball for over 33.5 minutes. The defense was the difference. You sustain those two drives and the TOP is really close. The same could be said for the Slayton drop for New York. Those are individual plays. It happens in any game. I really don't understand why teams just didn't run that route every time against us. Guys open by miles every time.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:19:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Take a knee in 98, 41 doughnut, 12 men on the field, choke after the miracle and now short of the sticks to end the season - sigh Courtney Cronin showed the play...there wasn't anyone open and a DLineman breaking in on Kirk....KJ was open a second later but it was very good coverage. They play call should have been reversed (Play calls on 3rd and 4th down) and it probably would have worked. They went with a 15 yard route to KJ when they only need 8. Did the bills have good coverage on the JJ catch? Sometimes you have to throw it up and hope for a play. Throwing for 3 when you needed 8 is dumb. Yes but that was a miracle play and he had more time. Your are assuming the protection was there; it wasn't. You at least TRY.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:20:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu The one word that sums the season for me is “mystifying”. I have no idea how we ended up with our record with such a terrible defense. And being ranked 31 of 32 is really terrible. The sad part of it is we will have to scrap and rebuild that side of the ball from the top down. With little money and not many picks, that process is going to take a while. Exactly why I'm not envisioning Jefferson staying. It won't break my heart as I don't put stock in players as much anymore. Ever since the Moss trade I know they're just pieces to move around. I didn’t want to say it like that, Rich, but that thought should be at least discussed. Nothing should be off the table to this point. I'd love to keep him of course. I just don't know if it's going to work out that way. He may not want to he involved in a multiple year rebuild. The team may trade him for a huge amount of picks. Who knows. If we had a couple of extra first rounders, had several backups projecting to be solid starters, had a QBOTF on a low initial contract, etc. then I'd slant to wanting to keep him. But with bare cupboards to basically replace the entire D, the entire IOL, and soon the QB position, they should definitely look at options to trade Jefferson. He is our single most valuable asset and he is not going to lead us to a SB anytime in the foreseeable future. Maybe he will help as he approaches 30 while looking for his next contract after the upcoming one, but not soon. Like Calvin Johnson and many others, his prime years will be wasted. Exactly.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 9:21:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The two biggest influencers of the game outside of our horrid defense of course were IMO: The JJeff pass to Kirk on 3rd and short. Irv drop pass. The Giants had the ball for over 33.5 minutes. The defense was the difference. You sustain those two drives and the TOP is really close. The same could be said for the Slayton drop for New York. Those are individual plays. It happens in any game. I really don't understand why teams just didn't run that route every time against us. Guys open by miles every time. They pretty much did, yesterday. We turned a mediocre offense into an offense that had 33.5 time-of-possession with 28 first downs and 431 yards.

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