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beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:31:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JC2022 quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Drafting Kyler Murray may have a lot to do with it...I think he wanted out. Anyone still on the Tua (3-5 concussions), Kyler (knee), Lamar (knee), Lance (Broken Ankle), etc. train? That is why I would be out on Fields also...they have to be a passer first, runner second. Even Hurts is a concern The mobile QBs need to use the THREAT of running more than they actually run. No matter how big you are, a QB running constantly gets broken up. Daunte and Cam were huge - both were done early The amount of designed runs for these franchise guys blows my mind... it's like they are trying to get Allen/Hurts/Lamar hurt at times.

JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:32:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lars quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is an exaggeration. I'd take Tyreek Hill seven days a week over Justin Jefferson. Hill is generational. Antonio Brown was generational....until he lost his mind. Jefferson is really good. I disagree on Hill. Look and KC before and after. I think JJ is great. Maybe not "generational", but if he was a FA and we snagged him I would be elated! KC became a ball control offense mostly without Hill They don't have close to the level of explosiveness they had with Hill The Chiefs played 3 top teams They lost 2 of the 3 games

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:33:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. It seems like the coaching staff think Dalvin Cook is Marshall Faulk the way they run screens for him LOL He's had a great career for the Vikings, but he's just not the guy anymore. I like this Chandler kid a lot and think he will be better than what we saw this year.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:34:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. It depends on your metric. He'll be a great pick in fantasy football next season. He won't help you win a game by running the ball when it matters in a real game. I agree you have to be able to pass the football. But you also need to be able to pick up a first down and control the clock when it matters. The Vikings are a pass-happy team. The Niners are a legitimate threat. Both teams have tight ends that can put up pretty numbers. One team has a tight end that can play in the mud.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:35:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JC2022 quote: ORIGINAL: Lars quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is an exaggeration. I'd take Tyreek Hill seven days a week over Justin Jefferson. Hill is generational. Antonio Brown was generational....until he lost his mind. Jefferson is really good. I disagree on Hill. Look and KC before and after. I think JJ is great. Maybe not "generational", but if he was a FA and we snagged him I would be elated! KC became a ball control offense mostly without Hill They don't have close to the level of explosiveness they had with Hill The Chiefs played 3 top teams They lost 2 of the 3 games And their defense is awful. The Bills are going to win the AFC.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:35:48 PM)
Deion Sanders, generational. I would argue Randy Moss was generational. The 1999 Packers draft suggests they thought so: Round Sel# Player Pos. College 1 25 Antuan Edwards FS Clemson 2 47 Fred Vinson CB Vanderbilt 3 87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis

Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:36:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JC2022 quote: ORIGINAL: Lars quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is an exaggeration. I'd take Tyreek Hill seven days a week over Justin Jefferson. Hill is generational. Antonio Brown was generational....until he lost his mind. Jefferson is really good. I disagree on Hill. Look and KC before and after. I think JJ is great. Maybe not "generational", but if he was a FA and we snagged him I would be elated! KC became a ball control offense mostly without Hill They don't have close to the level of explosiveness they had with Hill Mahomes threw for 400 more yards this year on the same number of completions and attempts. He threw for 4 more TD and 1 less INT....

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:37:18 PM)
Regarding Jefferson, I think also teams didn't really respect our running game much as the season waned. I don't think Cook scared anyone anymore, keep that safety back helps a lot in coverage. I'm excited to see what Chandler brings. He's a sum 4.4 guy who has some nice power to his game.

JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:40:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lars Mahomes threw for 400 more yards this year on the same number of completions and attempts. He threw for 4 more TD and 1 less INT.... Look at his game logs He piled on yards against bad teams but was just "good" against the top teams Against the Bengals 16 of 27, 223 yards, 1 TD, 0INTs Against the Bills 25 of 40, 338, 2TDs, 2INTs

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:40:57 PM)
Know he had an obvious hold that was missed, but Darrisaw pretty much shut down Thibideaux yesterday. Was really worried about him, but barely heard his name all day.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Deion Sanders, generational. I would argue Randy Moss was generational. The 1999 Packers draft suggests they thought so: Round Sel# Player Pos. College 1 25 Antuan Edwards FS Clemson 2 47 Fred Vinson CB Vanderbilt 3 87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis I would argue that Randy Moss was not generational. He had sensational receiving numbers, but there was a lot of missing parts to his game. He wasn't a great blocker. He took plays off. Didn't really care for contact. There's a reason he never won a ring. Conversely, Hines Ward did everything. He finished with two rings. And yet, most still wouldn't consider him generational. Ward wasn't flashy, but the guy was a phenomenal football player. He wouldn't trade his career for Moss', guaranteed.

Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:42:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JC2022 quote: ORIGINAL: Lars Mahomes threw for 400 more yards this year on the same number of completions and attempts. He threw for 4 more TD and 1 less INT.... Look at his game logs He piled on yards against bad teams but was just "good" against the top teams Against the Bengals 16 of 27, 223 yards, 1 TD, 0INTs Against the Bills 25 of 40, 338, 2TDs, 2INTs He has ALWAYS piled on the yards against bad teams [&:]

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:44:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. It depends on your metric. He'll be a great pick in fantasy football next season. He won't help you win a game by running the ball when it matters in a real game. I agree you have to be able to pass the football. But you also need to be able to pick up a first down and control the clock when it matters. The Vikings are a pass-happy team. The Niners are a legitimate threat. Both teams have tight ends that can put up pretty numbers. One team has a tight end that can play in the mud. Rams ran for 43 yards in their superbowl win last year... it's a passing league. Hock may not be Gronk in run blocking... he's passable (pun intended). You pining for the Kleinsasser days? [:D]

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:45:58 PM)
Jefferson, not "generational", but a better version of Keenan Allen. No reason why he can't set a lot of records, help the team win a lot of games and be in HOF if he stays healthy and the Vikings surround him with good talent. He doesn't have game breaking speed, so will always limit his upside somewhat on long throws.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:47:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. It depends on your metric. He'll be a great pick in fantasy football next season. He won't help you win a game by running the ball when it matters in a real game. I agree you have to be able to pass the football. But you also need to be able to pick up a first down and control the clock when it matters. The Vikings are a pass-happy team. The Niners are a legitimate threat. Both teams have tight ends that can put up pretty numbers. One team has a tight end that can play in the mud. Rams ran for 43 yards in their superbowl win last year... it's a passing league. Hock may not be Gronk in run blocking... he's passable (pun intended). You pining for the Kleinsasser days? [:D] I'm only saying that someone claiming Hockenson to be generational is silly.

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:48:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. It depends on your metric. He'll be a great pick in fantasy football next season. He won't help you win a game by running the ball when it matters in a real game. I agree you have to be able to pass the football. But you also need to be able to pick up a first down and control the clock when it matters. The Vikings are a pass-happy team. The Niners are a legitimate threat. Both teams have tight ends that can put up pretty numbers. One team has a tight end that can play in the mud. Rams ran for 43 yards in their superbowl win last year... it's a passing league. Hock may not be Gronk in run blocking... he's passable (pun intended). You pining for the Kleinsasser days? [:D] I'm only saying that someone claiming Hockenson to be generational is silly. Totally agree on that...

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:48:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 Jefferson, not "generational", but a better version of Keenan Allen. No reason why he can't set a lot of records, help the team win a lot of games and be in HOF if he stays healthy and the Vikings surround him with good talent. He doesn't have game breaking speed, so will always limit his upside somewhat on long throws. That's fair. But he'll have to do it for quite a few more years to get to Keenan Allen.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:49:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Deion Sanders, generational. I would argue Randy Moss was generational. The 1999 Packers draft suggests they thought so: Round Sel# Player Pos. College 1 25 Antuan Edwards FS Clemson 2 47 Fred Vinson CB Vanderbilt 3 87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis Exactly. When the 32 GMs would probably currently pick 4 different wideiuts when given the choice there's probably not any generational talent at the position.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. And a new RB, one more effective in the pass game than Dalvin.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:53:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. And a new RB, one more effective in the pass game than Dalvin. You guys all thought Dalvin Cook was an elite back two years ago. I kept telling you, running backs not named Derrick Henry are a dime-a-dozen.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:54:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him. He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that. Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half. Offenses win these days with the passing game. We have a stud in JJ. Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle). Irv is a disaster. Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh) KJ is just a guy. Nailor might contribute but hard to say. JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy. And a new RB, one more effective in the pass game than Dalvin. You guys all thought Dalvin Cook was an elite back two years ago. I kept telling you, running backs not named Derrick Henry are a dime-a-dozen. I've been firmly in the never pay a back huge money camp for a long time. Probably since after Emmitt and Faulk.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:57:03 PM)
I was not on board with signing him to big money. He was talented, but hurt too much. Now he's overpaid and old, for a RB.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 1:01:12 PM)
I know I've asked this question before, but it's been a few years. Can anyone tell me the last time the guy that led the NFL in rushing won a Super Bowl?

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 1:03:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H I know I've asked this question before, but it's been a few years. Can anyone tell me the last time the guy that led the NFL in rushing won a Super Bowl? Terrell Davis on 98?

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 1:04:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H I know I've asked this question before, but it's been a few years. Can anyone tell me the last time the guy that led the NFL in rushing won a Super Bowl? Terrell Davis on 98? Exactly. Running backs are a dime-a-dozen. High-profile backs eat up valuable resources. Most people couldn't tell me who the top back was for the Patriots on any given year. But most of them have multiple rings.

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