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Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:16:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

This will be a big year for our young GM

He came in with a lot of fancy words, and talk of callobaration, etc.

This is a win now business. And if your aren't winning, then you better have clear roadmap the fanbase can see to getting better

Oak just did this with Carr, they realize they have no chance with paying a good, not great QB while trying to have. a complete roster good enough to win.

The Wilfs got their "Division Title" and home play-off game, but reality hit hard and fast, that this team was likely more lucky than good.
A lot of us saw it, and warned the most optimistic fans the NFL experts were not wrong about this team. They don't "hate" the Vikings, they just saw a team with a bad defense who had a lot of breaks at the end of games, and were greatly outplaying their metrics.

Now we've got a soon to be 35 year old QB with 1 playoff win in his career. A roster that will likely lose Smith, Cook, Kendricks, Peterson, Thielen, etc.
No idea why will happen with Hunter. Some claim he's still elite, playing out of postion, but he clearly is not the guy who wen thought 2 major surgeries.
He's likely going to get his last big pay day at his age. Can you do it? Do you franchise him? Sign and trade him?

It's not clear we havre any young players to build a defense around. The 2022 class is.a major incomplete with most of the class injured.
We only have 4 picks this draft.
I believe I read with expected cuts the team will be $30 million under the cut. A decent number, but hardly a windfall to back up the brinks truck.

It's time Kwesit/KOC build their team, the Spielman roster just couldn't get it done. They were close, but just fell short.

I would argue they weren't close at all. I never bought into the idea that this club was going anywhere. They were a few breaks from being 8-9.


Sorry, meant the tenure in general. I think they had a short window when the defense was elite, you had Barr/Kendricks/Smith/Hunter/Rhodes all in their prime
Yes, they 2022 team was living on fumes. The Lions outplayed them 7 of 8 quarter. Someone would have to be blind, not to see that Det has a more talented roster at this point.
They thought they were a QB away. Cousins blew it in his first season. Maybe had a chance after they beat NO but downhill from there really.


Kwesi had 28 million in dead cap this year. New Coach. New Defense. They still went 13-4.

A lot of things went right. They were entertaining and they have building blocks at both OT, TE, #1 WR, #2 WR. Start there.


Kwesi had nothing to do with those building blocks.
His 2022 draft has been a disaster. People can make excuses, but that's just a fact.
He gets credit for Hockenson, so far, looks like a good trade

No objective analyst thought this was a good team. Rex Ryan literally said yesterday, they didn't even belong in the playoffs...My lord. Most recent power rankings had non-playoff teams ranked ahead of them
The Bears gave up, the Packers were dealing with their dysfunction for most of the season and a washed Rodgers, and thankfully it took the Lions half a season to realize they're pretty good.


Where did I say he was? You don't go into total rebuild because of them (those young building blocks) though. That is what I am saying.

Yes the draft is key. I think the LB and Nailor showed something but outside of Ingram we had no starters.




Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:17:06 PM)

Agreed on Kwesi.

Better hope those guys from last year heal up and you pull some rabbits out of hats this year




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:17:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

A big part of the problem with this roster right now, is you had a GM and HC completely disconnected from each other.

They had not plan. Zimmer was upset they signed Cousins, he didn't like him, he lost Spielman. and their was. not coordination road map after. that.

Other. than Jefferson and Darrisaw, the last few drafts between the 2 were pretty bad,
You can't have your GM and HC basically ignoring each other.

So here we were tying to get one more year out of some of these guys. Was destined to fail.


It was worse than one year (a few years ago resigning Harry, Barr, Kendricks, etc. as there were no replacements) as DL posted who is the young stud on defense you build around? Offense has at least Darrisaw, Cleveland, O'Neil, TJ, and JJeff. Most are young.

Defense is maybe Hunter and ZED.


There you go with Cleveland again. Hock is a FA and has to be signed.




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:18:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If this team would have won, they would have gotten beaten by at least 30 this weekend in San Francisco. Those boys ain't messin around out there right now.

San Francisco 48
Vikings 16


McCaffree and Deebo would have FEASTED!!

Can you imagine Kittle in the middle of the field? He may have set some records.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:19:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

A big part of the problem with this roster right now, is you had a GM and HC completely disconnected from each other.

They had not plan. Zimmer was upset they signed Cousins, he didn't like him, he lost Spielman. and their was. not coordination road map after. that.

Other. than Jefferson and Darrisaw, the last few drafts between the 2 were pretty bad,
You can't have your GM and HC basically ignoring each other.

So here we were tying to get one more year out of some of these guys. Was destined to fail.


It was worse than one year (a few years ago resigning Harry, Barr, Kendricks, etc. as there were no replacements) as DL posted who is the young stud on defense you build around? Offense has at least Darrisaw, Cleveland, O'Neil, TJ, and JJeff. Most are young.

Defense is maybe Hunter and ZED.


There you go with Cleveland again. Hock is a FA and has to be signed.


Not next year...we have him for another year.




Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:19:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If this team would have won, they would have gotten beaten by at least 30 this weekend in San Francisco. Those boys ain't messin around out there right now.

San Francisco 48
Vikings 16


McCaffree and Deebo would have FEASTED!!

Can you imagine Kittle in the middle of the field? He may have set some records.


They may have scored than 48 - seriously.

I would have loved a win yesterday, but knew the chance of a bloodbath at Levi the next week was at about 99%.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:20:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If this team would have won, they would have gotten beaten by at least 30 this weekend in San Francisco. Those boys ain't messin around out there right now.

San Francisco 48
Vikings 16


McCaffree and Deebo would have FEASTED!!

Can you imagine Kittle in the middle of the field? He may have set some records.


They may have scored than 48 - seriously.

I would have loved a win yesterday, but knew the chance of a bloodbath at Levi the next week was at about 99%.


NYG should have had 38...Slayton had a TD if he caught that last pass.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:20:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

You all saw the 20-play 11:00+ minute drive we gave up yesterday, right?

I think all of their drives were 75+ yards.

If their WR doesn't flat out drop that last pass, he probably runs to the endzone and we aren't talking about the last Cousins pass.

Cousins wasn't lights out, but the ****ing defense was BRUTAL. Again, Start there.....


Everyone knows the D needs an overhaul, but there shouldn't be a reason not to post about the most important position on the team. Especially after his most recent pass.




bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:20:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

A big part of the problem with this roster right now, is you had a GM and HC completely disconnected from each other.

They had not plan. Zimmer was upset they signed Cousins, he didn't like him, he lost Spielman. and their was. not coordination road map after. that.

Other. than Jefferson and Darrisaw, the last few drafts between the 2 were pretty bad,
You can't have your GM and HC basically ignoring each other.

So here we were tying to get one more year out of some of these guys. Was destined to fail.


It was worse than one year (a few years ago resigning Harry, Barr, Kendricks, etc. as there were no replacements) as DL posted who is the young stud on defense you build around? Offense has at least Darrisaw, Cleveland, O'Neil, TJ, and JJeff. Most are young.

Defense is maybe Hunter and ZED.


There you go with Cleveland again. Hock is a FA and has to be signed.

That is false. Hock has a 9.3 million dollar contract for next season.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/tj-hockenson-29043/




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:21:05 PM)

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:21:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

A big part of the problem with this roster right now, is you had a GM and HC completely disconnected from each other.

They had not plan. Zimmer was upset they signed Cousins, he didn't like him, he lost Spielman. and their was. not coordination road map after. that.

Other. than Jefferson and Darrisaw, the last few drafts between the 2 were pretty bad,
You can't have your GM and HC basically ignoring each other.

So here we were tying to get one more year out of some of these guys. Was destined to fail.


It was worse than one year (a few years ago resigning Harry, Barr, Kendricks, etc. as there were no replacements) as DL posted who is the young stud on defense you build around? Offense has at least Darrisaw, Cleveland, O'Neil, TJ, and JJeff. Most are young.

Defense is maybe Hunter and ZED.


There you go with Cleveland again. Hock is a FA and has to be signed.

That is false. Hock has a 9.3 million dollar contract for next season.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/tj-hockenson-29043/


NFW.

My bad on the falseness. It's the year after.




Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:22:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

You all saw the 20-play 11:00+ minute drive we gave up yesterday, right?

I think all of their drives were 75+ yards.

If their WR doesn't flat out drop that last pass, he probably runs to the endzone and we aren't talking about the last Cousins pass.

Cousins wasn't lights out, but the ****ing defense was BRUTAL. Again, Start there.....


Everyone knows the D needs an overhaul, but there shouldn't be a reason not to post about the most important position on the team. Especially after his most recent pass.


Oh I understand the banging on KFC. He deserves it.

I just think his shortcomings pale compared to, what I consider. the obvious.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:23:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk.


Yeah I simply bypassed that nonsense.

So who IS a good blocker on offense? The Giants seemed to have a team of good blockers. Or more likely our slow D made them look good.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:23:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk.

I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is an exaggeration.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:24:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

You all saw the 20-play 11:00+ minute drive we gave up yesterday, right?

I think all of their drives were 75+ yards.

If their WR doesn't flat out drop that last pass, he probably runs to the endzone and we aren't talking about the last Cousins pass.

Cousins wasn't lights out, but the ****ing defense was BRUTAL. Again, Start there.....


Everyone knows the D needs an overhaul, but there shouldn't be a reason not to post about the most important position on the team. Especially after his most recent pass.


Oh I understand the banging on KFC. He deserves it.

I just think his shortcomings pale compared to, what I consider. the obvious.

Probably because we know that side of the ball will get attention




Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:25:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

This will be a big year for our young GM

He came in with a lot of fancy words, and talk of callobaration, etc.

This is a win now business. And if your aren't winning, then you better have clear roadmap the fanbase can see to getting better

Oak just did this with Carr, they realize they have no chance with paying a good, not great QB while trying to have. a complete roster good enough to win.

The Wilfs got their "Division Title" and home play-off game, but reality hit hard and fast, that this team was likely more lucky than good.
A lot of us saw it, and warned the most optimistic fans the NFL experts were not wrong about this team. They don't "hate" the Vikings, they just saw a team with a bad defense who had a lot of breaks at the end of games, and were greatly outplaying their metrics.

Now we've got a soon to be 35 year old QB with 1 playoff win in his career. A roster that will likely lose Smith, Cook, Kendricks, Peterson, Thielen, etc.
No idea why will happen with Hunter. Some claim he's still elite, playing out of postion, but he clearly is not the guy who wen thought 2 major surgeries.
He's likely going to get his last big pay day at his age. Can you do it? Do you franchise him? Sign and trade him?

It's not clear we havre any young players to build a defense around. The 2022 class is.a major incomplete with most of the class injured.
We only have 4 picks this draft.
I believe I read with expected cuts the team will be $30 million under the cut. A decent number, but hardly a windfall to back up the brinks truck.

It's time Kwesit/KOC build their team, the Spielman roster just couldn't get it done. They were close, but just fell short.

I would argue they weren't close at all. I never bought into the idea that this club was going anywhere. They were a few breaks from being 8-9.


Sorry, meant the tenure in general. I think they had a short window when the defense was elite, you had Barr/Kendricks/Smith/Hunter/Rhodes all in their prime
Yes, they 2022 team was living on fumes. The Lions outplayed them 7 of 8 quarter. Someone would have to be blind, not to see that Det has a more talented roster at this point.
They thought they were a QB away. Cousins blew it in his first season. Maybe had a chance after they beat NO but downhill from there really.


Kwesi had 28 million in dead cap this year. New Coach. New Defense. They still went 13-4.

A lot of things went right. They were entertaining and they have building blocks at both OT, TE, #1 WR, #2 WR. Start there.


Kwesi had nothing to do with those building blocks.
His 2022 draft has been a disaster. People can make excuses, but that's just a fact.
He gets credit for Hockenson, so far, looks like a good trade

No objective analyst thought this was a good team. Rex Ryan literally said yesterday, they didn't even belong in the playoffs...My lord. Most recent power rankings had non-playoff teams ranked ahead of them
The Bears gave up, the Packers were dealing with their dysfunction for most of the season and a washed Rodgers, and thankfully it took the Lions half a season to realize they're pretty good.


Where did I say he was? You don't go into total rebuild because of them (those young building blocks) though. That is what I am saying.

Yes the draft is key. I think the LB and Nailor showed something but outside of Ingram we had no starters.


My bad

I have to guess down deep Kwesi knowing the value of players vs cost is cringing down deep with this roster on where money is being spent

Wouldn't surprise if we see a surprise move or 2 outside of the expected, Smith, Kendricks, Thielen, etc

There are lots of rumors out there on tracking Hunter why he has value, I know we love what he did in prime, but you have to start thinking about how you build a roster for the future than can complete up and down the football field.

Need to keep the Wilfs out of the decision making process.




JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:25:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer



Drafting Kyler Murray may have a lot to do with it...I think he wanted out.

Anyone still on the Tua (3-5 concussions), Kyler (knee), Lamar (knee), Lance (Broken Ankle), etc. train?
That is why I would be out on Fields also...they have to be a passer first, runner second.


Even Hurts is a concern

The mobile QBs need to use the THREAT of running more than they actually run.

No matter how big you are, a QB running constantly gets broken up. Daunte and Cam were huge - both were done early




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:26:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk.

I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is an exaggeration.

I'd take Tyreek Hill seven days a week over Justin Jefferson. Hill is generational. Antonio Brown was generational....until he lost his damned mind.

Jefferson is really good.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:27:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer



Drafting Kyler Murray may have a lot to do with it...I think he wanted out.

Anyone still on the Tua (3-5 concussions), Kyler (knee), Lamar (knee), Lance (Broken Ankle), etc. train?
That is why I would be out on Fields also...they have to be a passer first, runner second.


Even Hurts is a concern

The mobile QBs need to use the THREAT of running more than they actually run.

No matter how big you are, a QB running constantly gets broken up. Daunte and Cam were huge - both were done early

Hurts was actually trying to run over linebackers. He's not going to last doing that. Great point.




Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:27:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer



Drafting Kyler Murray may have a lot to do with it...I think he wanted out.

Anyone still on the Tua (3-5 concussions), Kyler (knee), Lamar (knee), Lance (Broken Ankle), etc. train?
That is why I would be out on Fields also...they have to be a passer first, runner second.


Even Hurts is a concern

The mobile QBs need to use the THREAT of running more than they actually run.

No matter how big you are, a QB running constantly gets broken up. Daunte and Cam were huge - both were done early



Correct.

You need a QB who can make a few plays a game with his feet and the defense has to honor that. Think about Rodgers in his prime




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:28:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk.

I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is am exaggeration.


Generational is Jim Brown. Lawrence Taylor.

Consistently get the best of Jaire Alexander for a start.




Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:29:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk.

I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is an exaggeration.

I'd take Tyreek Hill seven days a week over Justin Jefferson. Hill is generational. Antonio Brown was generational....until he lost his mind.

Jefferson is really good.


I disagree on Hill. Look and KC before and after.

I think JJ is great. Maybe not "generational", but if he was a FA and we snagged him I would be elated!




beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:29:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that.


Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half.

Offenses win these days with the passing game.
We have a stud in JJ.
Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle).

Irv is a disaster.
Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh)
KJ is just a guy.
Nailor might contribute but hard to say.

JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy.




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:30:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk.

I wouldn't say Jefferson is either. He can't seem to find the endzone much. Not a good trait for a generational player. Absolutely a great player and one of the best right now. Generational is an exaggeration.

I'd take Tyreek Hill seven days a week over Justin Jefferson. Hill is generational. Antonio Brown was generational....until he lost his mind.

Jefferson is really good.


I disagree on Hill. Look and KC before and after.

I think JJ is great. Maybe not "generational", but if he was a FA and we snagged him I would be elated!

Hill is a freak. Look at Tua before and after.




JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 12:31:20 PM)

Make a few of those plays early - then THREATEN to do it, get the LBs to run up, and then throw over them

Wilson was good at that early in his career

Mahomes does that a lot

But I don't want my QB running for 80 yards a game unless it is a broken play like Kap against the Packers in the playoffs

Not with hits on the end!




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