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Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 8:30:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I saw 3 different sources reporting on the Vikings possibly being one of the teams interested in LJ, so I think there is something to it.

The pricetag is probably too high, but at least your not trading JJ to get a top draft pick QB.

Chatter on the internet is not reporting.

The only options at QB this offseason seem to be:

Most likely – Cousins & Mullens, and maybe a late rd QB vs. an UDFA (i.e. status doing nothing quo).

Somewhat likely – Moving up into the 15-20 of the first or early third for an unexpected dropper

Unlikely – Going all in with Cousins on a multi-year extension.

Not likely at all – Lamar Jackson or any other Vet QB not named Cousins.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 8:44:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Thoughts on Hardman? Vikes have talked a little with him.

I like the speed he brings but another player that struggles to stay on the field. May have to go games and performance incentives.

He'd certainly be a huge upgrade from Reagor.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 9:06:59 AM)

When 3 different writers write articles about it, it's reporting, not internet chatter.

But if Tom calls reporting chatter, than it's chatter.

I think LJ would do well paired with KOC, but we're probably stuck with Kirk, at least for one more season.



beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 9:13:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

When 3 different writers write articles about it, it's reporting, not internet chatter.

But if Tom calls reporting chatter, than it's chatter.

I think LJ would do well paired with KOC, but we're probably stuck with Kirk, at least for one more season.


The logistics would just be difficult to say the least.

1) You have to trade Kirk somewhere.
2) You have to eat Kirk's dead money this year, next year (year after?)
3) You have to make an offer that the Raven's decide to NOT to match... i.e. it's going to have to be a blockbuster deal
4) Jackson's deal is going to have to be next to zero cap hit this year to accommodate Kirks money
5) You have to give up 2 1st round picks
6) You have to handcuff yourself with huge QB money allocation as you have been the last 5 years

Doesn't seem plausible.

Jackson has a pretty amazing win/loss record... but once he gets in the playoffs and teams make him throw the ball... it's Kirk territory for big game wins.

Year / Passing Yards / Passing TDs / Rushing TDs
2019 / 3127 / 36 / 7
2020 / 2757 / 26 / 7
2021 / 2882 / 16 / 2
2022 / 2242 / 17 / 3

He has regressed each year the last 4 years.
He has been injured.
He has had a lot of rushing yards but only 5 combined rushing TDs in the last 2 years.
You would really have to believe you could get 2019 Jackson back.

Pass



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 9:18:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

When 3 different writers write articles about it, it's reporting, not internet chatter.

But if Tom calls reporting chatter, than it's chatter.

I think LJ would do well paired with KOC, but we're probably stuck with Kirk, at least for one more season.

Tom doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Ever.

But if you are referencing a legitimate source, link it. ‘I read a tweet or comment or rumor etc’ is often vastly different than ‘multiple sources reporting …’

I assume we’d all like to know.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 9:40:18 AM)

Cam, not wanting to be done says, “Ain’t 32 motherf**kers better than me”

- only thing ive seen on Twitter regarding LJ to the Vikes from media personal has been something synonymous with "outside chance." I believe one used the phrase "dark horse"



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 9:43:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

When 3 different writers write articles about it, it's reporting, not internet chatter.

But if Tom calls reporting chatter, than it's chatter.

I think LJ would do well paired with KOC, but we're probably stuck with Kirk, at least for one more season.


The logistics would just be difficult to say the least.

1) You have to trade Kirk somewhere.
2) You have to eat Kirk's dead money this year, next year (year after?)
3) You have to make an offer that the Raven's decide to NOT to match... i.e. it's going to have to be a blockbuster deal
4) Jackson's deal is going to have to be next to zero cap hit this year to accommodate Kirks money
5) You have to give up 2 1st round picks
6) You have to handcuff yourself with huge QB money allocation as you have been the last 5 years

Doesn't seem plausible.

Jackson has a pretty amazing win/loss record... but once he gets in the playoffs and teams make him throw the ball... it's Kirk territory for big game wins.

Year / Passing Yards / Passing TDs / Rushing TDs
2019 / 3127 / 36 / 7
2020 / 2757 / 26 / 7
2021 / 2882 / 16 / 2
2022 / 2242 / 17 / 3

He has regressed each year the last 4 years.
He has been injured.
He has had a lot of rushing yards but only 5 combined rushing TDs in the last 2 years.
You would really have to believe you could get 2019 Jackson back.

Pass



Do you think you convinced him?



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 9:43:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I saw 3 different sources reporting on the Vikings possibly being one of the teams interested in LJ, so I think there is something to it.

The pricetag is probably too high, but at least your not trading JJ to get a top draft pick QB.

Chatter on the internet is not reporting.

The only options at QB this offseason seem to be:

Most likely – Cousins & Mullens, and maybe a late rd QB vs. an UDFA (i.e. status doing nothing quo).

Somewhat likely – Moving up into the 15-20 of the first or early third for an unexpected dropper

Unlikely – Going all in with Cousins on a multi-year extension.

Not likely at all – Lamar Jackson or any other Vet QB not named Cousins.



Do you think you convinced him?



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 9:46:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Vikings are rumored to possibly be a landing spot for Lamar Jackson:

https://share.newsbreak.com/3d1nyl5d

Any thoughts on Jackson ?

I haven't seen him play much, but would be more excited than with what Kirk brings. What I don't like with Jackson is the huge contract and what it may take in draft capital.


Mark this post... 3/20/2023. We are on day two of your Jackson binge.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:04:01 AM)

Looks like the initial FA wave is over. Now the salary demands drop as the older FAs and their agents see at least 150 collegiate players will soon be on rosters.



ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:19:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I realize the Vikings have a tough schedule, but I think they'll have a tough time getting to a top 10 pick in the 2024 draft.

The problem with getting that is Kirk is pretty good in the regular season, you have JJ, KOC is a good HC, Flores will likely improve the defense, and the special teams were good last year.


schedule a lot tougher and lucking running out on the one score games is why I think 7-8 wins might be it.

The one positive thing would be if Flores is indeed a magic working on defense. I tend to think defense is more about talent/speed.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:23:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I realize the Vikings have a tough schedule, but I think they'll have a tough time getting to a top 10 pick in the 2024 draft.

The problem with getting that is Kirk is pretty good in the regular season, you have JJ, KOC is a good HC, Flores will likely improve the defense, and the special teams were good last year.


schedule a lot tougher and lucking running out on the one score games is why I think 7-8 wins might be it.

The one positive thing would be if Flores is indeed a magic working on defense. I tend to think defense is more about talent/speed.

Schedule is tougher based on last years record, of course - but sure it looked a little scary to me as well when I first looked



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:31:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I realize the Vikings have a tough schedule, but I think they'll have a tough time getting to a top 10 pick in the 2024 draft.

The problem with getting that is Kirk is pretty good in the regular season, you have JJ, KOC is a good HC, Flores will likely improve the defense, and the special teams were good last year.


schedule a lot tougher and lucking running out on the one score games is why I think 7-8 wins might be it.

The one positive thing would be if Flores is indeed a magic working on defense. I tend to think defense is more about talent/speed.

Maybe KOC in his second season head coach will be able to step up his game to minimize the mid game offensive lulls



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:43:51 AM)

Ron

I am not sure the Vikings success was entirely luck, some of it was good preparation by KOC.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:46:10 AM)

Beo

I think LJ would play better in the playoffs if he were in KOC's system, and he passed a lot in the regular season, making him a better passer for the playoffs.

So in your response to your "pass", I say "pass more".



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:48:45 AM)

Replacing Reagor with Hardman would be a nice addition by subtraction.

Reagor and Irv Smith Jr. gave me the feeling they would fumble, or something bad might happen every time they had the ball.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:58:33 AM)

Tom, I already linked a legitimate source with LJ possibly to Minnesota, here it is again:

https://share.newsbreak.com/3d1nyl5d

Here is Jeremy Fowler of Sports Illustrated on it:

https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/vikings/a-path-to-the-vikings-trading-for-lamar-jackson-exists

And there is this one: https://sports.yahoo.com/vikings-emerge-darkhorse-candidates-sign-011852026.html

And I will try to find the link to the story I read a little over a week ago on it.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 10:59:55 AM)

Does Hardman have any PR exp?

Reagor scared the hell out me every time he fielded a punt.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 11:16:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Tom, I already linked a legitimate source with LJ possibly to Minnesota, here it is again:

https://share.newsbreak.com/3d1nyl5d

Here is Jeremy Fowler of Sports Illustrated on it:

https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/vikings/a-path-to-the-vikings-trading-for-lamar-jackson-exists

And there is this one: https://sports.yahoo.com/vikings-emerge-darkhorse-candidates-sign-011852026.html

And I will try to find the link to the story I read a little over a week ago on it.

I appreciate the links.

Please note that the original source that spawned the multiple sources was espn Fowler … who merely pointed out possible ‘fits’ around the league … nobody is hearing whispering pigeon-messaging or getting an inkling of any interest by the team.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 11:42:14 AM)

I know what you're thinking Marty ... 'That ungrateful bastard!'

The truth is, the team would be negligent if they didn't have internal conversations about all available draft and trade options, including Jackson.

That has nothing to do with your 'sources'.

Jackson hasn't even been that good for the last two seasons ... no where near as solid as Cousins ... same playoff records ...

Why would we sell all our future assets to change from from one merry-go-round horse to another?

It makes no sense. At all.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 11:51:29 AM)

I feel like the Vikings would have a chance with LJ because he is quicker, and has mobility. Get into the playoffs and anything can happen.

I feel like Kirk see things too slowly, so the odds of a playoff run with him are very low.

Besides the previous 3 and out in the 4th quarter against the Giants, Kirk's 3rd down pass to KJ was late, and he didn't see things quickly enough on 4th down to make a better choice of leading Osborn with a pass, or a prayer to JJ.

Kirk showed some flashes in the regular season, but it didn't carry over to the playoffs. He has probably hit his zenith in KOC's system. Whereas, LJ in KOC's system, would probably be in the best system he has been in, so there is a higher ceiling there.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 12:02:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Does Hardman have any PR exp?

Reagor scared the hell out me every time he fielded a punt.

From looking at his stats / draft information ...

Small dude / ran a 4.33 at the combine

He came into the league as a PR / KR specialist who was raw as a WR, has done both for KC.

Last year was a down year / had injuries (8 Gs 25 RECs 1 KR 6 PRs)

2021 was solid as a back-up (17G 59 RECs 2 RETs 13 PRs)

Easily better than Reagor. Won't be competing for #2 though ... just a speedster / ST player.

Since we invested in and made a public proclamation about going heavy on our 2 TE sets ... he's probably about as good as we'll do for a back-up WR (outside of the draft).



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 12:29:53 PM)

I don't think there is any question Jackson is a far better qb than Cousins. His ability to escape the pocket and gash the defense running wise can bring a good defense to it's knees.

But this subject of us acquiring him is ludicrous.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 12:32:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Does Hardman have any PR exp?

Reagor scared the hell out me every time he fielded a punt.

From looking at his stats / draft information ...

Small dude / ran a 4.33 at the combine

He came into the league as a PR / KR specialist who was raw as a WR, has done both for KC.

Last year was a down year / had injuries (8 Gs 25 RECs 1 KR 6 PRs)

2021 was solid as a back-up (17G 59 RECs 2 RETs 13 PRs)

Easily better than Reagor. Won't be competing for #2 though ... just a speedster / ST player.

Since we invested in and made a public proclamation about going heavy on our 2 TE sets ... he's probably about as good as we'll do for a back-up WR (outside of the draft).

Thanks Tom.

Sportrac has Hardman valued at 10.3ml per year. Probably way too rich for us.



Pauldiercks1 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/21/2023 3:23:29 PM)

Best case is we dump what we can and Cousins gets hurt week one. We win 3 games in the next two years and will be far ahead of where we are right now.

Despite the record we were not a realistic playoff team. We got handed a big L from a weak playoff team. I am so tired of having a QB that is decent to pretty good but not really all that good.
You win with a top 4 QB. Thats 95% of the winning formula. The good quality players wanting to win will seek you out if you have that.

I'm 53 and have seen this run back for almost 53 years. If you aint got that QB just fricken lose your games. Wayyy to much value in losing to finish a few games over 500 not a serious contender. I no longer care about winning a few games. Seriously attempt to be a SB team If we needed to trade Jefferson to get the QB we needed that's a minimal sacrifice of almost nothing. All other players can be bought. A great QB you must go get.



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