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Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/23/2023 6:01:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Reportedly he signed 1 year, 1.3M. How do you not offer that when you have ONE proven CB on the roster (who is coming off a back injury)? Maybe he didn't meet the Kwesi Kevin standard of unimpeachable character. Or maybe we simply misplaced him while we were bolstering our run game with fat Oliver and Ham contracts ... he is rather small.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/23/2023 6:05:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Shelley to LV Too bad, Flores must not have liked something about this game. I would have signed him for depth for more than what he got. I was thinking 2 for 4 was a decent offer and he went for much less.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/23/2023 6:07:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Reportedly he signed 1 year, 1.3M. How do you not offer that when you have ONE proven CB on the roster (who is coming off a back injury)? ...and he fired dantzler - we lost 3 out of our 4 best cb's, and we could have kept 2 of those 3 for $4.2mm...did flores pay booth a visit, and check him out? the only explanation is, and i don't think it's enough; we're drafting a CB in the 1st round.... i'd sign another CB now - then draft a wr in the 1st, and a cb in the 3rd - then go guard, center/guard.... trade cook, but keep z'smith.... i'm sorry, but jeff doesn't get a new deal until next year....

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/23/2023 6:12:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You trust Flores. 1.3 for 1 year doesn't exactly equal a hot commodity. Now c'mon. The other teams do not suck light inwards with a black hole in their secondary. He played better than anyone else on the back end, cb or safety. Or lb, dt, de come to think of it. Not that he's great ... he's not. May not be permanent starter material. We are funneling bazillions into blocking TEs, FBs, Hicks, Bradburys. We can't swing 1.5 for a presumptive starter on our defense until somebody else takes over?

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/23/2023 6:24:26 PM)
I don't want to overplay it ... there's a lot of offseason to go. Shelley just seemed like a no brainer.

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/23/2023 6:28:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Reportedly he signed 1 year, 1.3M. How do you not offer that when you have ONE proven CB on the roster (who is coming off a back injury)? Seriously??? That is chump change in today’s NFL. It looks like we are planning on tanking for next year. But, we’re re totally stocked on tight ends, so that’s a plus.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/23/2023 8:27:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Reportedly he signed 1 year, 1.3M. How do you not offer that when you have ONE proven CB on the roster (who is coming off a back injury)? ...and he fired dantzler - we lost 3 out of our 4 best cb's, and we could have kept 2 of those 3 for $4.2mm...did flores pay booth a visit, and check him out? the only explanation is, and i don't think it's enough; we're drafting a CB in the 1st round.... i'd sign another CB now - then draft a wr in the 1st, and a cb in the 3rd - then go guard, center/guard.... trade cook, but keep z'smith.... i'm sorry, but jeff doesn't get a new deal until next year.... An upgrade on the DL wouldn't be dumb either, but resources are limited.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 8:26:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year?

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 8:30:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes I don't want to overplay it ... there's a lot of offseason to go. Shelley just seemed like a no brainer. Rock Ya Sin is man corner. Flores likes man corners. Trade Cook for 6th rounder, use cap space for Sin[:'(].

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 9:13:26 AM)
More thoughts about Hooker from a guy who covers the Vikings extensively. Not favorable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkBq7jo2H08 Also negative on Duggan whom some in here are clamoring for.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 9:23:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes I don't want to overplay it ... there's a lot of offseason to go. Shelley just seemed like a no brainer. Maybe Duke didn't have a strong enough injury history for Kwesi's taste.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 10:13:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year? Most tanking is incompetence, not reorganizing to be successful. IMO teams sell off assets to speed up their rebuild … not to subjugate themselves to a period of monastic self-flagellation … hoping their prayers and supplications will be heard during a future draft. Tanking intentionally is nonsense.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 10:32:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year? Most tanking is incompetence, not reorganizing to be successful. IMO teams sell off assets to speed up their rebuild … not to subjugate themselves to a period of monastic self-flagellation … hoping their prayers and supplications will be heard during a future draft. Tanking intentionally is nonsense. Sure. The Colts never sucked for Luck.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 10:59:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year? Most tanking is incompetence, not reorganizing to be successful. IMO teams sell off assets to speed up their rebuild … not to subjugate themselves to a period of monastic self-flagellation … hoping their prayers and supplications will be heard during a future draft. Tanking intentionally is nonsense. Sure. The Colts never sucked for Luck. https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/the_most_significant_worst_to_first_nfl_teams/s1__36303845 25 cases of worst to first. In most cases there was some type of circumstance in the prior year that caused the team to be worse than they should have been like an injury to the starting QB. When it comes to tanking, I too don't look at a miserably run franchise and then ask why they don't miraculously bounce to the top of the league in the next year. But there are those rare chances where you have a partially built championship roster and for some reason you have a terrible year - that's your chance. We had that chance when Teddy got hurt in 2016. We could have tanked that season but instead we trade a #1 for Sam Bradford and end up going 8-8. In the 2017 draft, instead of the VERY REAL possibility of drafting Patrick Mahomes or Desean Watson our first pick is in round 2 and we get Dalvin Cook.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 11:01:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year? Most tanking is incompetence, not reorganizing to be successful. IMO teams sell off assets to speed up their rebuild … not to subjugate themselves to a period of monastic self-flagellation … hoping their prayers and supplications will be heard during a future draft. Tanking intentionally is nonsense. Sure. The Colts never sucked for Luck. Nope. There's a difference between making hard decisions to give yourself a better chance and making extra room for more bad decisions ... EDIT the conversation was about our team building ... not a few games to end a lost season. SECOND EDIT so okay ... yes, I'm wrong to say tanking doesn't exist – draft position is a factor as the season winds down for bad teams. Not sure it goes beyond that.

Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 11:18:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year? Most tanking is incompetence, not reorganizing to be successful. IMO teams sell off assets to speed up their rebuild … not to subjugate themselves to a period of monastic self-flagellation … hoping their prayers and supplications will be heard during a future draft. Tanking intentionally is nonsense. Sure. The Colts never sucked for Luck. Nope. There's a difference between making hard decisions to give yourself a better chance and making extra room for more bad decisions ... IMO, we should have started the rebuild, not tanking, last year but better late than never. No more void years, no more big contracts with guarantied beyond one year if your over 30. Accumulate draft capitol and vigorously search for our next franchise QB. Get younger and faster. Today's NFL is a offensive, passing league. I'd build up the offense first so the new QB is in the best position to succeed and gain confidence. Then build the defense for the Super Bowl run. [:D]

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 11:31:41 AM)
Imagine if we were to free ourselves from all the void years, bloated-contract-vets, garbage and simply start a true rebuild. Now imagine we hit on a good QB in the draft. Allowing one-to-two seasons for the rookie QB to achieve great play, that leaves us with three seasons where we'd have our QB and could have our pick of free agents and could even resign our best existing players into long-term deals. It's as good of a shot at a Super Bowl title as we could ever hope for. Or, I guess we could just keep running it back with Kirk and Co. Heck we might even win another wildcard game.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 11:59:14 AM)
. . Look at it this way everyone; each season we have to pay at least the CBA minimum in salaries, the money that we push into later years goes towards that minimum salary required. If you want to tank, I don’t think there’s much difference paying for the few prior years that we tried to make it happen, or overpaying younger players, just to meet the minimum CBA requirement.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 12:39:20 PM)
. . I thought they were overpaying udoh…. “A four year qualifying contract is a way to reward teams for developing players. It allows them to pay them substantial money with a minimal salary cap hit. That allows the Vikings to pay Udoh a base salary of $2.43 million with it only counting $1.08 million on the salary cap. Add in his signing bonus and Udoh will count only $1,232,500 this season agains the salary cap.“

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 12:46:33 PM)
I was sorry we didn't release Ham. I was surprised we extended him. That was before I realized besides FB and ST Captain, he is also in charge of coin flip upmanship https://twitter.com/adamweber/status/1626025014456713216

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 1:23:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year? Most tanking is incompetence, not reorganizing to be successful. IMO teams sell off assets to speed up their rebuild … not to subjugate themselves to a period of monastic self-flagellation … hoping their prayers and supplications will be heard during a future draft. Tanking intentionally is nonsense. Sure. The Colts never sucked for Luck. And it got the Colts one AFC championship appearance.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 1:49:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . I thought they were overpaying udoh…. “A four year qualifying contract is a way to reward teams for developing players. It allows them to pay them substantial money with a minimal salary cap hit. That allows the Vikings to pay Udoh a base salary of $2.43 million with it only counting $1.08 million on the salary cap. Add in his signing bonus and Udoh will count only $1,232,500 this season agains the salary cap.“ Might apply whenever for players like Dye and Metellus.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 1:53:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Imagine if we were to free ourselves from all the void years, bloated-contract-vets, garbage and simply start a true rebuild. Now imagine we hit on a good QB in the draft. Allowing one-to-two seasons for the rookie QB to achieve great play, that leaves us with three seasons where we'd have our QB and could have our pick of free agents and could even resign our best existing players into long-term deals. It's as good of a shot at a Super Bowl title as we could ever hope for. Or, I guess we could just keep running it back with Kirk and Co. Heck we might even win another wildcard game. Yep, just admit we are doing a proper rebuild instead of an extended stab at mediocrity. We could have jump-started that process last year by tossing the bad contracts.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 2:06:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The approach to lose the next 34 regular season games to try and improve is inconceivable to me. I can't imagine staying fan if that's the strategy We don't really need to completely tank 2 seasons. Just follow the Detroit Lions recipe for success. 2008 NFL Detroit Lions 0 16 2009 NFL Detroit Lions 2 14 2010 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2011 NFL Detroit Lions* 10 6 2012 NFL Detroit Lions 4 12 2013 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2014 NFL Detroit Lions* 11 5 2015 NFL Detroit Lions 7 9 2016 NFL Detroit Lions* 9 7 2017 NFL Detroit Lions 9 7 2018 NFL Detroit Lions 6 10 2019 NFL Detroit Lions 3 12 1 2020 NFL Detroit Lions 5 11 2021 NFL Detroit Lions 3 13 2022 NFL Detroit Lions 9 8 2023 NFL Detroit Lions Superbowl homeboy! Tanking for a couple years seems like an extreme measure. Why not just give up a couple future number 1s, move up and grab Levis or Richardson and get the process started this year? Most tanking is incompetence, not reorganizing to be successful. IMO teams sell off assets to speed up their rebuild … not to subjugate themselves to a period of monastic self-flagellation … hoping their prayers and supplications will be heard during a future draft. Tanking intentionally is nonsense. Sure. The Colts never sucked for Luck. Nope. There's a difference between making hard decisions to give yourself a better chance and making extra room for more bad decisions ... IMO, we should have started the rebuild, not tanking, last year but better late than never. No more void years, no more big contracts with guarantied beyond one year if your over 30. Accumulate draft capitol and vigorously search for our next franchise QB. Get younger and faster. Today's NFL is a offensive, passing league. I'd build up the offense first so the new QB is in the best position to succeed and gain confidence. Then build the defense for the Super Bowl run. [:D] You lay out a good rebuild blueprint but prefaced it with "better late than never", I guess to signify a rebuild has started. IMO it is not, at least in a true sense. On offense, it is mainly - Thielen and + Oliver, although I think Cook is also gone. On defense, - 3 CBs, + Murphy, + one-year flier on Davenport, Tonga for Tomlinson. As for no more void years... quite the opposite. It would be nice to see the beginnings of continuity for the future, but I doubt most of the FAs we signed will be around to see their contracts completed here (not uncommon).

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/24/2023 2:06:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Imagine if we were to free ourselves from all the void years, bloated-contract-vets, garbage and simply start a true rebuild. Now imagine we hit on a good QB in the draft. Allowing one-to-two seasons for the rookie QB to achieve great play, that leaves us with three seasons where we'd have our QB and could have our pick of free agents and could even resign our best existing players into long-term deals. It's as good of a shot at a Super Bowl title as we could ever hope for. Or, I guess we could just keep running it back with Kirk and Co. Heck we might even win another wildcard game. Yep, just admit we are doing a proper rebuild instead of an extended stab at mediocrity. We could have jump-started that process last year by tossing the bad contracts. Not sure if there is a sure fire blue print on how to do it. KC had Alex Smith(Kirk type) from 2013 to 2017 and averaged 11 wins but never made much noise in playoffs. Never really blew it up. Lucked into Mahomes when Bears reached for Trubisky. Could a Levis, Richardson or Hooker be our Mahomes to get us to another level?

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