RE: General Vikes Talk

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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 10:23:34 AM)
How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 10:38:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:02:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:12:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:16:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:32:09 AM)
Or not everyone believes we are 200 miles away with Cousins like so many here do. And they believe chances of winning with him are better than the crap shoot with the rookie QB. Two sides and it can get ugly debating it, no dobut

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:37:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:44:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:53:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Nice job on that smackdown. Ponder. Then deeper into the well with Daunte. We'll be into Warren Moon territory soon. Why not George Shaw. Kirk 2nd or 3rd best ever, LMAO! Tarkenton, Kramer, Kapp, Culpepper, Brad Johnson... even Favre were way better. Kirk is around Wade Wilson territory, an easily forgotten never-was if it wasn't for the franchise being so stupid with his contracts.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:53:46 AM)
I am fine with Sending Kirk to NYJ and SF; they have Pro Bowlers everywhere and most likely win a super bowl.......anyone saying Kirk is the issue didn't watch SF, KC, Philly, Cincy, or Buffalo play. Teams loaded with Pro Bowl players.....you are tying the problem to Kirk when it is about overall team talent.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:57:36 AM)
So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 11:57:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Nice job on that smackdown. Ponder. Then deeper into the well with Daunte. We'll be into Warren Moon territory soon. Why not George Shaw. Kirk 2nd or 3rd best ever, LMAO! Tarkenton, Kramer, Kapp, Culpepper, Brad Johnson... even Favre were way better. Kirk is around Wade Wilson territory, an easily forgotten never-was if it wasn't for the franchise being so stupid with his contracts. That is totally your jaded opinion. Kirk has passed all of them but Tark and Tommy. Favre was here for 1.5 years. Brad played parts of 3 years before he came back with Chilly. You may want to look at your examples stats.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 12:02:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons. The 2nd best QB arguably in Vikings history. A team currently with 0 championships. You are aiming for a qb to win a championship; but lets gut the team, JJ, Kirk, etc. rebuild it down to the studs for 2-3 years....makes sense. [&:]

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 12:06:49 PM)
200 miles away with Cousins? This is not the 1800s and we don't travel by horse and wagons. In relative terms we are 200,000 miles away. Dude has one playoff victory in 11 seasons but somehow he's going to win three or four in a single season? Is it drugs, cult-worship, or religion? The upside down grins after going 3 and out? [:)] Kirk Not-It Cousins.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 12:10:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them? Here's a link to the 2019 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: There are Vikings on both offense and defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pro_Bowl 2018 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: Vikings all over the place, offense and defense represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Pro_Bowl 2020 Pro Bowl roster. You guessed it - Vikings on O and D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Pro_Bowl 2021 Pro Bowl roster: You got me on this one. Only two Vikings and they are both offense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Pro_Bowl 2022 Pro Bowl roster: 5 Pro Bowlers! Again O and D both represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Pro_Bowl

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 12:13:27 PM)
This user is on your "block" list and the message has been blocked. I love technology.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 12:16:00 PM)
I also see a suggestion that I use % of cap for specifically this year. Just stop. Seriously. Through some dangerous and irresponsible accounting they managed to push $28 million of Kirk's cap figure into next year. That by no means, in any way, shape, or form, does not change the truth that his cost is $48 million for his play in 2023. $48 FREAKING MILLION! I don't really know where we can go from here.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 12:52:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. I also see a suggestion that I use % of cap for specifically this year. Just stop. Seriously. Through some dangerous and irresponsible accounting they managed to push $28 million of Kirk's cap figure into next year. That by no means, in any way, shape, or form, does not change the truth that his cost is $48 million for his play in 2023. $48 FREAKING MILLION! I don't really know where we can go from here. $28.5 million but what's another $500k. The very same people who (erroneously) complain KC never had defensive talent around him don't even bat an eye at the obscene, 100% guaranteed money he hoovers up... money from the exact same source that could be used to acquire additional talent! Anyway, I'm glad the team said go pound sand to his wanting two more years fully guaranteed. Guess he thought he'd continue to call the shots and the team would cave yet again, for whatever dumb reason. Greedy bastard.

Bill Johanesen -> yui890-9+-+* (3/28/2023 12:54:38 PM)
dup

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 1:47:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them? Here's a link to the 2019 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: There are Vikings on both offense and defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pro_Bowl 2018 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: Vikings all over the place, offense and defense represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Pro_Bowl 2020 Pro Bowl roster. You guessed it - Vikings on O and D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Pro_Bowl 2021 Pro Bowl roster: You got me on this one. Only two Vikings and they are both offense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Pro_Bowl 2022 Pro Bowl roster: 5 Pro Bowlers! Again O and D both represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Pro_Bowl How many Pro Bowlers for KC? How many for Buffalo...remember in 98 when we had 9? You think this team is setup to win it all and I have read suggestions about getting rid of 2 of their Pro Bowlers.....Kirk and JJ. Great plans.... About as good of ideas as trading AP and Moss in their prime. Kirk is 9% of 2023 cap. Again you are looking in the wrong place.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 1:49:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them? Here's a link to the 2019 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: There are Vikings on both offense and defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pro_Bowl 2018 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: Vikings all over the place, offense and defense represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Pro_Bowl 2020 Pro Bowl roster. You guessed it - Vikings on O and D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Pro_Bowl 2021 Pro Bowl roster: You got me on this one. Only two Vikings and they are both offense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Pro_Bowl 2022 Pro Bowl roster: 5 Pro Bowlers! Again O and D both represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Pro_Bowl How many Pro Bowlers for KC? How many for Buffalo...remember in 98 when we had 9? You think this team is setup to win it all and I have read suggestions about getting rid of 2 of their Pro Bowlers.....Kirk and JJ. Great plans.... Dude, I don't know. Look that crap up yourself. I've done enough of your homework for one day.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 1:54:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them? Here's a link to the 2019 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: There are Vikings on both offense and defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pro_Bowl 2018 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: Vikings all over the place, offense and defense represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Pro_Bowl 2020 Pro Bowl roster. You guessed it - Vikings on O and D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Pro_Bowl 2021 Pro Bowl roster: You got me on this one. Only two Vikings and they are both offense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Pro_Bowl 2022 Pro Bowl roster: 5 Pro Bowlers! Again O and D both represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Pro_Bowl How many Pro Bowlers for KC? How many for Buffalo...remember in 98 when we had 9? You think this team is setup to win it all and I have read suggestions about getting rid of 2 of their Pro Bowlers.....Kirk and JJ. Great plans.... About as good of ideas as trading AP and Moss in their prime. Kirk is 9% of 2023 cap. Again you are looking in the wrong place. Pro Bowl is a joke. Huntley(Ravens) threw for 2 TDs this year and made it. All Pro teams have the best players chosen. Anyway, let KC play this year, draft a QB this year or trade for Lance. The results we have this year will sort out what we need to do after that.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 1:56:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them? Here's a link to the 2019 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: There are Vikings on both offense and defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pro_Bowl 2018 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: Vikings all over the place, offense and defense represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Pro_Bowl 2020 Pro Bowl roster. You guessed it - Vikings on O and D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Pro_Bowl 2021 Pro Bowl roster: You got me on this one. Only two Vikings and they are both offense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Pro_Bowl 2022 Pro Bowl roster: 5 Pro Bowlers! Again O and D both represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Pro_Bowl How many Pro Bowlers for KC? How many for Buffalo...remember in 98 when we had 9? You think this team is setup to win it all and I have read suggestions about getting rid of 2 of their Pro Bowlers.....Kirk and JJ. Great plans.... Dude, I don't know. Look that crap up yourself. I've done enough of your homework for one day. I already looked it up....they have way more talent on their team....pro bowlers is just one way to look at it. KC and Cincy have/had #3 WR better than on 2nd and a better defense....somehow some ignorant posters don't see how stacked the top 4 of the AFC, Philly, and 49ers were. [&o]

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:01:32 PM)
Talk about a dumbo package....those suggesting Kirk wasn't worth the money spent are lining up in that formation on this thread daily.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:05:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them? Here's a link to the 2019 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: There are Vikings on both offense and defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pro_Bowl 2018 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: Vikings all over the place, offense and defense represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Pro_Bowl 2020 Pro Bowl roster. You guessed it - Vikings on O and D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Pro_Bowl 2021 Pro Bowl roster: You got me on this one. Only two Vikings and they are both offense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Pro_Bowl 2022 Pro Bowl roster: 5 Pro Bowlers! Again O and D both represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Pro_Bowl How many Pro Bowlers for KC? How many for Buffalo...remember in 98 when we had 9? You think this team is setup to win it all and I have read suggestions about getting rid of 2 of their Pro Bowlers.....Kirk and JJ. Great plans.... Dude, I don't know. Look that crap up yourself. I've done enough of your homework for one day. I already looked it up....they have way more talent on their team....pro bowlers is just one way to look at it. KC and Cincy have/had #3 WR better than on 2nd and a better defense....somehow some ignorant posters don't see how stacked the top 4 of the AFC, Philly, and 49ers were. [&o] No shit. Trust me I know all about how championship teams have built their teams. I've posted about KC and Mahomes specifically within the last two weeks. I've laid out my plan in a fair amount of detail. My QB strategy is in my signature. Kirk Cousins is costing $48.5 million dollars for what we get from him in 2023 - we'll just take the cap hit for over half of it next year when he's not even on the roster. I have no plans to trade JJ so stop with that. Stick to what we're actually saying and stop bringing in phantom arguments when your existing one is falling short.

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