RE: General Vikes Talk

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David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:06:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Talk about a dumbo package....those suggesting Kirk wasn't worth the money spent are lining up in that formation on this thread daily. What return have we got on our investment in him? About the same return we could have gotten from nearly any random QB in the league. One playoff win is such a low bar.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:07:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen How did Ponder even enter the equation? Oh wait, I see how. Another case of 'ButWhatAbout'. If you don't keep Kirk Cousins you automatically get Christian Ponder. Try to keep up. Oh yeah Championship QBs Ponder, Teddy, Sam, then Case....if you really want to keep up. Ponder was the start (forcing a QB decision). Then another force to Teddy. I would love to see Hooker in the 2nd or the Purdue QB O'Connell in the mid rounds...natural passers that can move that don't seem forced. You can just as well lump Kirk in with the others in my opinion Only we didn't hand out fully guaranteed god-tier contracts to the others. How many games has he missed? Also look at Dante's career record in comparasion. Kirk isn't the greatest QB ever but it wasn't a bad signing when you take into account the QB injuries we had.... Kirk is our 2nd or 3rd best qb in history...him and Tommy. You can keep saying QB contracts but that is what the market is and was. Jets offered him more than we did and Denver a little less. My expectations for success go up as the contract goes up. I don't define success as durability, decent stats, or even comeback wins even though all those things can contribute to success. I define success as what we do in the playoffs. In a one-off scenario I'll listen to arguments about having a bad defense, a bad O-line, a bad call by a ref, etc... But over course of five seasons all those excuses become less relevant. Kirk won one playoff game and then shit his pants in the game that followed. All the other QBs you've mentioned so far (Case, Ponder, Teddy, Daunte, and Sam Bradford) have a combined playoff record of 3-4. Kirk is 1-3. You mocked these other QBs calling them "Championship QBs" and yet they've collectively been better in the playoffs than Kirk. Collectively better Defenses and Offense talent around them. $$$ goes up every year. Maybe you may want to look at something else....% of cap this year is where you may want to look. The Vikings have had Pro Bowl talent surronding those QBs on defense and offense. Cutting and trading Kirk is going to fix that also? The main reason given is winning a championship isn't it? Did those QBs win it after or before we acquired them? Here's a link to the 2019 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: There are Vikings on both offense and defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pro_Bowl 2018 Pro Bowl roster. Spoiler alert: Vikings all over the place, offense and defense represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Pro_Bowl 2020 Pro Bowl roster. You guessed it - Vikings on O and D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Pro_Bowl 2021 Pro Bowl roster: You got me on this one. Only two Vikings and they are both offense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Pro_Bowl 2022 Pro Bowl roster: 5 Pro Bowlers! Again O and D both represented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Pro_Bowl How many Pro Bowlers for KC? How many for Buffalo...remember in 98 when we had 9? You think this team is setup to win it all and I have read suggestions about getting rid of 2 of their Pro Bowlers.....Kirk and JJ. Great plans.... Dude, I don't know. Look that crap up yourself. I've done enough of your homework for one day. I already looked it up....they have way more talent on their team....pro bowlers is just one way to look at it. KC and Cincy have/had #3 WR better than on 2nd and a better defense....somehow some ignorant posters don't see how stacked the top 4 of the AFC, Philly, and 49ers were. [&o] No shit. Trust me I know all about how championship teams have built their teams. I've posted about KC and Mahomes specifically within the last two weeks. I've laid out my plan in a fair amount of detail. My QB strategy is in my signature. Kirk Cousins is costing $48.5 million dollars for what we get from him in 2023 - we'll just take the cap hit for over half of it next year when he's not even on the roster. I have no plans to trade JJ so stop with that. Stick to what we're actually saying and stop bringing in phantom arguments when your existing one is falling short. Phantom arguments? They didn't have the talent not matter what Kirk is paid....he is 10% of the cap this year. 15% last year. Bad return on the whole salary cap...last I checked he wasn't the 30th ranked qb....(like the defense).

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:09:18 PM)
And just to take the KC and Mahomes thing a touch further - you understand that to get to where they are today THEY PARTED WAYS WITH THEIR KIRK COUSINS AFTER 2017 RIGHT? You should know that because I put up a detailed post full of Alex Smith stats and KC win/loss records and playoff success during and after Alex Smith.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:14:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. And just to take the KC and Mahomes thing a touch further - you understand that to get to where they are today THEY PARTED WAYS WITH THEIR KIRK COUSINS AFTER 2017 RIGHT? You should know that because I put up a detailed post full of Alex Smith stats and KC win/loss records and playoff success during and after Alex Smith. This looks like our plan. Draft a guy this year and let him learn behind KC. We probably would have done it last year but Pickett was a huge gamble and the rest sucked.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:14:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. And just to take the KC and Mahomes thing a touch further - you understand that to get to where they are today THEY PARTED WAYS WITH THEIR KIRK COUSINS AFTER 2017 RIGHT? You should know that because I put up a detailed post full of Alex Smith stats and KC win/loss records and playoff success during and after Alex Smith. Again we had Shelley as our best CB at 5'8". Kendricks our best lb that couldn't keep up with RB or TE. Hockenson was a better 2nd WR than our 2nd WR. Our best RB had a bad shoulder all year. Like I said review the whole team not the QB.....Kirk wasn't the issue. Pulling in Mahomes, Burrow, Allen is great but it took Andy Reid a few years, Zach Taylor a few years, and the Buffalo coach a few years.....I think we have a coach and GM who can get it done......quit the KirkSchitzPalooza. Give them another year.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:19:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. And just to take the KC and Mahomes thing a touch further - you understand that to get to where they are today THEY PARTED WAYS WITH THEIR KIRK COUSINS AFTER 2017 RIGHT? You should know that because I put up a detailed post full of Alex Smith stats and KC win/loss records and playoff success during and after Alex Smith. Again we had Shelley as our best CB at 5'8". Kendricks our best lb that couldn't keep up with RB or TE.....Hockenson was a better 2nd WR than our 2nd WR. Like I said review the whole team not the QB.....Kirk wasn't the issue. Pulling in Mahomes is great but it took Andy Reid a few years, Zach Taylor a few years, and the Buffalo coach a few years.....I think we have a coach and GM who can get it done......quit the KirkSchitzPalooza. Give them another year. Kirk wasn't the issue last year. The defense was a joke. But, he needs to get us to the NFCCG or SB before I even think about franchising him for another year.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:22:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. And just to take the KC and Mahomes thing a touch further - you understand that to get to where they are today THEY PARTED WAYS WITH THEIR KIRK COUSINS AFTER 2017 RIGHT? You should know that because I put up a detailed post full of Alex Smith stats and KC win/loss records and playoff success during and after Alex Smith. Again we had Shelley as our best CB at 5'8". Kendricks our best lb that couldn't keep up with RB or TE.....Hockenson was a better 2nd WR than our 2nd WR. Like I said review the whole team not the QB.....Kirk wasn't the issue. Pulling in Mahomes is great but it took Andy Reid a few years, Zach Taylor a few years, and the Buffalo coach a few years.....I think we have a coach and GM who can get it done......quit the KirkSchitzPalooza. Give them another year. Kirk wasn't the issue last year. The defense was a joke. But, he needs to get us to the NFCCG or SB before I even think about franchising him for another year. +1 Plus Kirk will be 35.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 2:53:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. And just to take the KC and Mahomes thing a touch further - you understand that to get to where they are today THEY PARTED WAYS WITH THEIR KIRK COUSINS AFTER 2017 RIGHT? You should know that because I put up a detailed post full of Alex Smith stats and KC win/loss records and playoff success during and after Alex Smith. Again we had Shelley as our best CB at 5'8". Kendricks our best lb that couldn't keep up with RB or TE.....Hockenson was a better 2nd WR than our 2nd WR. Like I said review the whole team not the QB.....Kirk wasn't the issue. Pulling in Mahomes is great but it took Andy Reid a few years, Zach Taylor a few years, and the Buffalo coach a few years.....I think we have a coach and GM who can get it done......quit the KirkSchitzPalooza. Give them another year. Kirk wasn't the issue last year. The defense was a joke. But, he needs to get us to the NFCCG or SB before I even think about franchising him for another year. He's not going to get us anywhere near those and will be gone after the season. But once he leaves there are 28,500,000 reasons why his stench will linger.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 3:54:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. And just to take the KC and Mahomes thing a touch further - you understand that to get to where they are today THEY PARTED WAYS WITH THEIR KIRK COUSINS AFTER 2017 RIGHT? You should know that because I put up a detailed post full of Alex Smith stats and KC win/loss records and playoff success during and after Alex Smith. Again we had Shelley as our best CB at 5'8". Kendricks our best lb that couldn't keep up with RB or TE.....Hockenson was a better 2nd WR than our 2nd WR. Like I said review the whole team not the QB.....Kirk wasn't the issue. Pulling in Mahomes is great but it took Andy Reid a few years, Zach Taylor a few years, and the Buffalo coach a few years.....I think we have a coach and GM who can get it done......quit the KirkSchitzPalooza. Give them another year. Kirk wasn't the issue last year. The defense was a joke. But, he needs to get us to the NFCCG or SB before I even think about franchising him for another year. He's not going to get us anywhere near those and will be gone after the season. But once he leaves there are 28,500,000 reasons why his stench will linger. The void year bonanza we did can redeem itself. If Davenport and Murphy become above average to All Pro type players for multiple years.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 6:17:02 PM)
I see Kirk Cousins as the Vikings Steve Deberg (Montana), Drew Bledsoe (Brady), or Alex Smith (Mahomes), the one preceding greatness. Smith is probably the best comparison as he's the most recent predecessor to greatness. I hope the Vikings take a flyer on a non-1st round QB this year, I just don't hold out a lot of hope for the ones I know about, based on name. I have a feeling O'Connell will be about as good of an NFL QB as KOC. I have trouble with Hooker being anything but a cheap thrill.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/28/2023 6:52:19 PM)
I really don’t give a flying ** what happens anymore, till the “Mr guaranteed money is my lord and savior “ is out the **ing door.. Even after he is gone the stink of his 28.5 million kick the Kirk cap down the road is going to hamstring us in FA, for 2024. Never since Favrey, have I despised a current Viking QB, with such disgust. And his fanboys lap up the “if only”, and “butwhatabouts”, and blame Anything and anyone to keep Sucks Cousins on his pedestal of mediocrity.. [sm=vomit.gif]

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 12:57:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons. The 2nd best QB arguably in Vikings history. A team currently with 0 championships. You are aiming for a qb to win a championship; but lets gut the team, JJ, Kirk, etc. rebuild it down to the studs for 2-3 years....makes sense. [&:] 2nd best? That’s ridiculous even for you. Second best player in team history for the lowest return on the hugest investment. Herschell Walker being #1. If KC doesnt win another playoff game for us, he’ll easily make our Mt Rushmore of infamy, alongside Walker and Steckel … trying to think of who would be the fourth(?).

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 2:45:57 AM)
I want a QB that would have lost sleep over the playoff exit we experienced. All I picture Cousins doing is shrugging and thinking about church stuff. I don't hate him but he's a wanker not a winner.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 5:59:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons. The 2nd best QB arguably in Vikings history. A team currently with 0 championships. You are aiming for a qb to win a championship; but lets gut the team, JJ, Kirk, etc. rebuild it down to the studs for 2-3 years....makes sense. [&:] 2nd best? That’s ridiculous even for you. Second best player in team history for the lowest return on the hugest investment. Herschell Walker being #1. If KC doesnt win another playoff game for us, he’ll easily make our Mt Rushmore of infamy, alongside Walker and Steckel … trying to think of who would be the fourth(?). Look at our history just in the last 10 years. We haven’t been a QB franchise. Dante was probably number two. GB has two HOF the last 30. We have-- star WR, RBs, Olineman, and Dlineman in the span. We haven’t had a franchise QB since Dante and that was short lived. Before that maybe Tommy and Fran......

Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 7:43:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons. The 2nd best QB arguably in Vikings history. A team currently with 0 championships. You are aiming for a qb to win a championship; but lets gut the team, JJ, Kirk, etc. rebuild it down to the studs for 2-3 years....makes sense. [&:] 2nd best? That’s ridiculous even for you. Second best player in team history for the lowest return on the hugest investment. Herschell Walker being #1. If KC doesnt win another playoff game for us, he’ll easily make our Mt Rushmore of infamy, alongside Walker and Steckel … trying to think of who would be the fourth(?). Red McCombs gets my vote

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 7:48:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M I want a QB that would have lost sleep over the playoff exit we experienced. All I picture Cousins doing is shrugging and thinking about church stuff. I don't hate him but he's a wanker not a winner. f princeton@LocktoMinny · Aaron Rodgers leave Green Bay with a 4-5-1 record vs Kirk Cousins -wait a minute has he officially left yet?

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 7:56:35 AM)
Maybe it'll be ok if he plays one more, or two, years here in MN. Dan come down from the ledge ... Get Up @GetUpESPN @RGIII 's top five NFC QBs if Rodgers plays for the Jets: 1. Jalen Hurts 2. Kirk Cousins 3. Dak Prescott 4. Kyler Murray 5. Geno Smith * Kirk was trending on Twitter so I went and snag a couple tweets. I left the one's with scripture there so as not to offend or disturb anyone.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 8:09:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M I want a QB that would have lost sleep over the playoff exit we experienced. All I picture Cousins doing is shrugging and thinking about church stuff. I don't hate him but he's a wanker not a winner. Would you like him better if he called out interior Olinemen for numerous whiffs? I would. Go Brady on them.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 8:23:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons. The 2nd best QB arguably in Vikings history. A team currently with 0 championships. You are aiming for a qb to win a championship; but lets gut the team, JJ, Kirk, etc. rebuild it down to the studs for 2-3 years....makes sense. [&:] 2nd best? That’s ridiculous even for you. Second best player in team history for the lowest return on the hugest investment. Herschell Walker being #1. If KC doesnt win another playoff game for us, he’ll easily make our Mt Rushmore of infamy, alongside Walker and Steckel … trying to think of who would be the fourth(?). I don't think Cousins makes Top 10 Mt. Rushmore Walker Steckel Ponder Underwood Honorable Mention Frazier(HC) DJ Dozier(why we made Herschel trade) Troy Williamson(Moss trade) Kalil Darrin Nelson(not a bad player but could have had HOF Marcus Allen) Blair Walsh(best team since 2009 and he shanked it away)

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 9:14:13 AM)
Kyler Murry IMO is closer to team cancer than being a "top QB". I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 9:16:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M I want a QB that would have lost sleep over the playoff exit we experienced. All I picture Cousins doing is shrugging and thinking about church stuff. I don't hate him but he's a wanker not a winner. Would you like him better if he called out interior Olinemen for numerous whiffs? I would. Go Brady on them. Absolutely.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 9:45:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Maybe it'll be ok if he plays one more, or two, years here in MN. Dan come down from the ledge ... Get Up @GetUpESPN @RGIII 's top five NFC QBs if Rodgers plays for the Jets: 1. Jalen Hurts 2. Kirk Cousins 3. Dak Prescott 4. Kyler Murray 5. Geno Smith * Kirk was trending on Twitter so I went and snag a couple tweets. I left the one's with scripture there so as not to offend or disturb anyone. The scripture quotes would have been 100 times better than the bolded.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 10:17:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons. The 2nd best QB arguably in Vikings history. A team currently with 0 championships. You are aiming for a qb to win a championship; but lets gut the team, JJ, Kirk, etc. rebuild it down to the studs for 2-3 years....makes sense. [&:] 2nd best? That’s ridiculous even for you. Second best player in team history for the lowest return on the hugest investment. Herschell Walker being #1. If KC doesnt win another playoff game for us, he’ll easily make our Mt Rushmore of infamy, alongside Walker and Steckel … trying to think of who would be the fourth(?). Troy Williamson? Granted, he had the shadow of Moss. But #7 pick overall catching the ball with his face mask? Underwood?

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 10:26:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen So forget the others. This is about KIRK COUSINS. One playoff win in 11 seasons. The 2nd best QB arguably in Vikings history. A team currently with 0 championships. You are aiming for a qb to win a championship; but lets gut the team, JJ, Kirk, etc. rebuild it down to the studs for 2-3 years....makes sense. [&:] 2nd best? That’s ridiculous even for you. Second best player in team history for the lowest return on the hugest investment. Herschell Walker being #1. If KC doesnt win another playoff game for us, he’ll easily make our Mt Rushmore of infamy, alongside Walker and Steckel … trying to think of who would be the fourth(?). Troy Williamson? Granted, he had the shadow of Moss. But #7 pick overall catching the ball with his face mask? Underwood? I would rate Underwood lower on the list because even though it was a wasted first rounder he is redeemed (not sure if that's the right word) somewhat in that we didn't have to suffer a season or three of crappy play. Does that make sense? When I compare Underwood to Christian Ponder I see Ponder as 10x worse because our QB situation was messed up for multiple seasons because of the pick.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/29/2023 10:32:06 AM)
Mt. Rushmore of Infamy Walker Cousins Steckel McCombs/Underwood/Williamson/Spielman? Blair Walsh(best team since 2009 and he shanked it away). In that case Gary Anderson gets the nod over Walsh Ponder: 38 TD, 36 Int; not infamy worthy.

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