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Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 12:09:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

IMHO, it's also a byproduct of having so many new pieces and not playing them a series or 4 in the preseason. You can "plan" all you want and hit in training camp but nothing compares to the real deal. He learned that from the wonder-genius McVay but his teams are pretty 'meh' minus the year they loaded up on seasoned vets.


Then there is reason for some optimism going forward. Our preseason is officially over with.

I think it's overrated "who you learn from." Either you got what it takes or you don't. And even if you do there's going to be a learning curve.

to no one in particular, or maybe to the majority of "Viking fans:" it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, it's possible there is a bright side somewhere up ahead




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 12:30:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

IMHO, it's also a byproduct of having so many new pieces and not playing them a series or 4 in the preseason. You can "plan" all you want and hit in training camp but nothing compares to the real deal. He learned that from the wonder-genius McVay but his teams are pretty 'meh' minus the year they loaded up on seasoned vets.


Then there is reason for some optimism going forward. Our preseason is officially over with.

I think it's overrated "who you learn from." Either you got what it takes or you don't. And even if you do there's going to be a learning curve.

to no one in particular, or maybe to the majority of "Viking fans:" it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, it's possible there is a bright side somewhere up ahead



Agree. My biggest concern is that, once again, we'll be good enough to hang around the playoff line and, if we make them, get 1 and done. In that 20 year cycle we've been in (bar 2 years) we always get a crappy draft pick and this year we HAVE to figure out the QB situation moving forward.

We won't be in the Caleb Williams sweepstakes but I want us to be in the range where we can be in the Penix sweepstakes.




Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 12:38:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

IMHO, it's also a byproduct of having so many new pieces and not playing them a series or 4 in the preseason. You can "plan" all you want and hit in training camp but nothing compares to the real deal. He learned that from the wonder-genius McVay but his teams are pretty 'meh' minus the year they loaded up on seasoned vets.


Then there is reason for some optimism going forward. Our preseason is officially over with.

I think it's overrated "who you learn from." Either you got what it takes or you don't. And even if you do there's going to be a learning curve.

to no one in particular, or maybe to the majority of "Viking fans:" it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, it's possible there is a bright side somewhere up ahead



Agree. My biggest concern is that, once again, we'll be good enough to hang around the playoff line and, if we make them, get 1 and done. In that 20 year cycle we've been in (bar 2 years) we always get a crappy draft pick and this year we HAVE to figure out the QB situation moving forward.

We won't be in the Caleb Williams sweepstakes but I want us to be in the range where we can be in the Penix sweepstakes.


You want the Kwesi dream? An oft injured guy available later bc of said history?




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 12:47:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

IMHO, it's also a byproduct of having so many new pieces and not playing them a series or 4 in the preseason. You can "plan" all you want and hit in training camp but nothing compares to the real deal. He learned that from the wonder-genius McVay but his teams are pretty 'meh' minus the year they loaded up on seasoned vets.


Then there is reason for some optimism going forward. Our preseason is officially over with.

I think it's overrated "who you learn from." Either you got what it takes or you don't. And even if you do there's going to be a learning curve.

to no one in particular, or maybe to the majority of "Viking fans:" it doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, it's possible there is a bright side somewhere up ahead



Agree. My biggest concern is that, once again, we'll be good enough to hang around the playoff line and, if we make them, get 1 and done. In that 20 year cycle we've been in (bar 2 years) we always get a crappy draft pick and this year we HAVE to figure out the QB situation moving forward.

We won't be in the Caleb Williams sweepstakes but I want us to be in the range where we can be in the Penix sweepstakes.


You want the Kwesi dream? An oft injured guy available later bc of said history?



Yeah, maybe a bad example but I think, if that dude can stay healthy he's the 2nd (maybe best) most affective guy in the class. Maybe I should have penned "top QB other than Williams" sweepstakes. I'm not that high on May but I haven't seen that much of him. Against the Gophers he had some good throws but was kinda 'meh'.




marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:07:53 PM)

I am wondering if Fields comes back and has a few good games, can the Vikings trade up to #1 with Chicago?

I am thinking 2 1sts, and then add in Hunter and or O'Neill.




Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:09:08 PM)

Not knowing the college players I don’t mean to disparage a guy you like. I’ve really only looked at Williams and May and Penix bc it stood out to me he’d be a KOM guy.




beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:11:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am wondering if Fields comes back and has a few good games, can the Vikings trade up to #1 with Chicago?

I am thinking 2 1sts, and then add in Hunter and or O'Neill.


It's not happening... give it up.
There are other guys in the draft.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:24:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am wondering if Fields comes back and has a few good games, can the Vikings trade up to #1 with Chicago?

I am thinking 2 1sts, and then add in Hunter and or O'Neill.


No.

They are not trading a potential franchise QB. And if for some stupid reason they do, it won't be in the division.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:25:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Not knowing the college players I don’t mean to disparage a guy you like. I’ve really only looked at Williams and May and Penix bc it stood out to me he’d be a KOM guy.



nah man. all good, didn't take it negatively. It was a great point. Dude has blown out 2 ACL's but he's looked incredible this year. May win the Heisman. Mobility, rocket arm ect.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:27:21 PM)

Guys, so far:


Love - Williams, Penix

Like - May, Ewers, Sanders

Nope - Travis, Nix, McCarthy




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:28:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am wondering if Fields comes back and has a few good games, can the Vikings trade up to #1 with Chicago?

I am thinking 2 1sts, and then add in Hunter and or O'Neill.


No.

They are not trading a potential franchise QB. And if for some stupid reason they do, it won't be in the division.



Exactly, The Bears have been a dumpster fire but they're not "lets hand a division rivalry a generational talent QB" stupid.




fmaltes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:31:40 PM)

Ok, Here is my nightmare draft scenario. We end up being like 12-14 in draft order. There are lets say six" tier-one" quarterbacks in the draft and they are all drafted ahead of us--this is very likely with so many teams needing QBs and about six outstanding college QBs available. Then, the Vikings pull a Christian Ponder and draft a "second-tier" QB in the first round because they need a QB instead of a stud at another position.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:32:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

KOC should turn play calling over to somebody, he can still stress the things he wants and override plays (I assume some coaches do that at times).

Not sure it really matters at this point.

Vikings won't make playoffs and new young QB will be taking over next year.

Kwesi really needs to hit on the draft. I know Kirk takes a lot of cap but it sure doesn't feel like the Vikings had to let a lot of quality talent leave the building because of Kirk's salary.

You cannot build a defense or an OL on Free Agency market, just doesn't work.


"You cannot build a defense or an OL on Free Agency market, just doesn't work."
I have to disagree with that.
KC got killed in the superbowl with terrible line (Mike Remmers anyone).
Went out and fixed it in the offseason.

Add a decent to stud CB or DE to your defense... it can drastically improve things.


They also drafted Creed Humphrey and he was in the mix for Offensive Rookie of the Year. But they definitely went with a wholesale change using FAs.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:38:53 PM)

Also, keep in mind. There is a very real situation where Williams doesn't declare this year. He's making a killing in NIL and could easily snub a bad franchise.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:40:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am wondering if Fields comes back and has a few good games, can the Vikings trade up to #1 with Chicago?

I am thinking 2 1sts, and then add in Hunter and or O'Neill.


They'll evaluate Fields for the entire season and, if needed, take bids up through the night of the draft. By then Hunter will likely be long gone. Two 1st rounders is nothing and Chi should put a premium on any offer within the division. More than likely they will take Williams. So at least six reasons suggest that isn't happening.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:47:44 PM)

This guy is kicking it but he's not progged to go high. Don't know anything about him.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4426348/jayden-daniels




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:49:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

Ok, Here is my nightmare draft scenario. We end up being like 12-14 in draft order. There are lets say six" tier-one" quarterbacks in the draft and they are all drafted ahead of us--this is very likely with so many teams needing QBs and about six outstanding college QBs available. Then, the Vikings pull a Christian Ponder and draft a "second-tier" QB in the first round because they need a QB instead of a stud at another position.



Absolutely. But while that's happening just harken back fondly to when we beat the Panthers and Bears.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:53:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Not knowing the college players I don’t mean to disparage a guy you like. I’ve really only looked at Williams and May and Penix bc it stood out to me he’d be a KOM guy.



nah man. all good, didn't take it negatively. It was a great point. Dude has blown out 2 ACL's but he's looked incredible this year. May win the Heisman. Mobility, rocket arm ect.


I didn't know about the 2 blown ACLs; maybe a candidate to drop out of the first due to injury history?




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 1:58:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
Guys, so far:
Love - Williams, Penix
Like - May, Ewers, Sanders
Nope - Travis, Nix, McCarthy


There are a few others that are starting to move up.
I guess ESPN has a QBR tool for 2024 Draft candidates; I really like the LSU QB:
Michael Penix Jr., Washington (QBR: 93.7)
Tyler Van Dyke, Miami (FL) (QBR: 91.5)
J.J. McCarthy, Michigan (QBR: 91.0)
Kyle McCord, Ohio State (QBR: 87.7)
Drake Maye, North Carolina (QBR: 87.3)
Sam Hartman, Notre Dame (QBR: 86.8)
Jordan Travis, Florida State (QBR: 86.5)
Cameron Ward, Washington State (QBR: 86.4)
Caleb Williams, USC (QBR: 85.5)
Spencer Rattler, South Carolina (QBR: 83.0)
Jayden Daniels, LSU (QBR: 82.8)
Jaxson Dart, Ole Miss (QBR: 82.4)
Quinn Ewers, Texas (QBR: 82.2)
Bo Nix, Oregon (QBR: 80.6)
Shedeur Sanders, Colorado (QBR: 75.1)




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 2:11:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
Guys, so far:
Love - Williams, Penix
Like - May, Ewers, Sanders
Nope - Travis, Nix, McCarthy


There are a few others that are starting to move up.
I guess ESPN has a QBR tool for 2024 Draft candidates; I really like the LSU QB:
Michael Penix Jr., Washington (QBR: 93.7)
Tyler Van Dyke, Miami (FL) (QBR: 91.5)
J.J. McCarthy, Michigan (QBR: 91.0)
Kyle McCord, Ohio State (QBR: 87.7)
Drake Maye, North Carolina (QBR: 87.3)
Sam Hartman, Notre Dame (QBR: 86.8)
Jordan Travis, Florida State (QBR: 86.5)
Cameron Ward, Washington State (QBR: 86.4)
Caleb Williams, USC (QBR: 85.5)
Spencer Rattler, South Carolina (QBR: 83.0)
Jayden Daniels, LSU (QBR: 82.8)
Jaxson Dart, Ole Miss (QBR: 82.4)
Quinn Ewers, Texas (QBR: 82.2)
Bo Nix, Oregon (QBR: 80.6)
Shedeur Sanders, Colorado (QBR: 75.1)



Thanks, good list!

I only mentioned the guys that i've really watched so far this year. I've had a bunch of games on in the background but those guys are ones that I really paid attention to. But, by no means, do I know what I'm talking about.

I wouldn't touch an Ohio State guy. I know Stroud has done really well in Houston but they are generally throwing to 5 star, NFL ready, WR's. Plus, as someone mentioned earlier. They look like lizards [&:]




Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 2:14:04 PM)

I've been thinking about that. If the team somehow ends up picking in the top 5, then no question you keep Jefferson to pair with a young QB. If they're picking in the middle of the first round, then do you pay big dollars to Jefferson without really having a QB to pair with him? I think the answer will come clear at the end of the year. I'd hate to trade Jefferson. He's a difference maker and there are not a lot of those in the NFL. But, if you don't have the QB does it matter if you have a top tier receiver? Hopefully, they'll end up with both!




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 2:18:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am wondering if Fields comes back and has a few good games, can the Vikings trade up to #1 with Chicago?

I am thinking 2 1sts, and then add in Hunter and or O'Neill.


No.

They are not trading a potential franchise QB. And if for some stupid reason they do, it won't be in the division.



Exactly, The Bears have been a dumpster fire but they're not "lets hand a division rivalry a generational talent QB" stupid.


They're still dealing with drafting Trubinski over Mahomes.

Imagine the exponentially magnified backlash if they had traded Their pick to us and we had drafted Mahomes?

It would have to be a Hershel Walker+ deal for them to even consider it.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 2:22:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Also, keep in mind. There is a very real situation where Williams doesn't declare this year. He's making a killing in NIL and could easily snub a bad franchise.


Unless Williams falls on his face, I don't see it as being that real of a situation.

As much as he makes in college, its still a fraction of #1 overall money. Not to mention the NFL contract will be fully (or nearly fully) guaranteed, while he'd be one major injury away from losing so much in the short and long term staying in school.

Plus its pretty rare that a "not bad franchise" has the #1 overall pick, so he'd likely just be delaying the inevitable 1 more year.

That's a massive gamble that a better situation will be there next year.




Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 2:22:37 PM)

This isn't a playoff caliber team. Not sure we have much any other team would trade for outside of Hunter or Jefferson. They will not trade Jefferson during the season and most likely not after it. I don't think any other team wants Cousins. I think he'd really struggle if he had to go to a new situation mid-season...he seems like a guy who likes to stay in his daily routine...not a guy that can handle sudden change.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/17/2023 2:22:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Also, keep in mind. There is a very real situation where Williams doesn't declare this year. He's making a killing in NIL and could easily snub a bad franchise.


Unless Williams falls on his face, I don't see it as being that real of a situation.

As much as he makes in college, its still a fraction of #1 overall money. Not to mention the NFL contract will be fully (or nearly fully) guaranteed, while he'd be one major injury away from losing so much in the short and long term staying in school.

Plus its pretty rare that a "not bad franchise" has the #1 overall pick, so he'd likely just be delaying the inevitable 1 more year.

That's a massive gamble that a better situation will be there next year.




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