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TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 7:14:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen should have moved Cleveland to swing tackle and blocking tight end - not signed oliver or udoh.... With Oliver blocking for Mattison we might not get the long gainers, but should be able to convert 3rd and short situations at a higher rate. I don't have the stats to back it up (talking out of my ass) but it seems to me that a consistent ability to gain 3-5 yards is way more important than hitting a long TD run every two-to-three games. It was so painful to watch Cook make "business decisions" in the backfield so often when all we really needed was a rookie to hit the hole at full speed and take the damn four yards. 2nd-and-8 through 2nd-and-13 felt like a death sentence last year. Valid point. I just read that Cook was held to a yard or less on 32% of his rushes. my point was that Cleveland would be blocking in the tight end position, and also used as needed at tackle.... What makes you think Cleveland can play TE? Moving Cleveland around is not going to be some magic elixir for this line. Cook has to take part of the blame. He plays the waiting game far too often looking for the big play. Sometimes you need to hit the small seam that's there instead of always waiting for a bigger one. I have faith that Cleveland could line up as a tight end and block as well, or better, than oliver - we're guaranteeing oliver and udoh over $13mm in 2023 to do something that Cleveland can do - and we'd improve our interior ol by adding a real guard to the line.... oliver caught 14 passes last year, and only 26 over his three-year pro career - he's a surprise pass target every couple of games - any NFL player could do that.... this is my position on the matter.... Cleveland moves well for a 315 ib man, but I don't know that he has the mobility to deliver the blocks this offense requires of a TE. One example is Vikings at times will lineup the TE outside the RT, have him run along the line and deliver a block at the spot where the LG lined up. I just don't know that Cleveland has the speed to do it. Most TE are in the 250-260 range and faster than most 315 linemen. I'm not saying he couldn't do it. On the other hand I wouldn't assume that he could either.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 7:56:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen should have moved Cleveland to swing tackle and blocking tight end - not signed oliver or udoh.... With Oliver blocking for Mattison we might not get the long gainers, but should be able to convert 3rd and short situations at a higher rate. I don't have the stats to back it up (talking out of my ass) but it seems to me that a consistent ability to gain 3-5 yards is way more important than hitting a long TD run every two-to-three games. It was so painful to watch Cook make "business decisions" in the backfield so often when all we really needed was a rookie to hit the hole at full speed and take the damn four yards. 2nd-and-8 through 2nd-and-13 felt like a death sentence last year. I think Kam/Koc have done the math on this and agree. It's extremely important to stay ahead of the sticks so the whole playbook can be used. This should also help TOP and keep a suspect defense off the field. Hopefully the offense can be more consistent vs going to sleep with multiple 3 and outs for 2 qtrs of the game.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 8:00:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen should have moved Cleveland to swing tackle and blocking tight end - not signed oliver or udoh.... With Oliver blocking for Mattison we might not get the long gainers, but should be able to convert 3rd and short situations at a higher rate. I don't have the stats to back it up (talking out of my ass) but it seems to me that a consistent ability to gain 3-5 yards is way more important than hitting a long TD run every two-to-three games. It was so painful to watch Cook make "business decisions" in the backfield so often when all we really needed was a rookie to hit the hole at full speed and take the damn four yards. 2nd-and-8 through 2nd-and-13 felt like a death sentence last year. Valid point. I just read that Cook was held to a yard or less on 32% of his rushes. my point was that Cleveland would be blocking in the tight end position, and also used as needed at tackle.... What makes you think Cleveland can play TE? Moving Cleveland around is not going to be some magic elixir for this line. Cook has to take part of the blame. He plays the waiting game far too often looking for the big play. Sometimes you need to hit the small seam that's there instead of always waiting for a bigger one. I have faith that Cleveland could line up as a tight end and block as well, or better, than oliver - we're guaranteeing oliver and udoh over $13mm in 2023 to do something that Cleveland can do - and we'd improve our interior ol by adding a real guard to the line.... oliver caught 14 passes last year, and only 26 over his three-year pro career - he's a surprise pass target every couple of games - any NFL player could do that.... this is my position on the matter.... Cleveland moves well for a 315 ib man, but I don't know that he has the mobility to deliver the blocks this offense requires of a TE. One example is Vikings at times will lineup the TE outside the RT, have him run along the line and deliver a block at the spot where the LG lined up. I just don't know that Cleveland has the speed to do it. Most TE are in the 250-260 range and faster than most 315 linemen. I'm not saying he couldn't do it. On the other hand I wouldn't assume that he could either. I believe Cleveland began his college career at a TE and was converted to T. He could easily drop some weight and be quicker. I had thoughts of having Bradbury be an H Back being he obviously can't play C.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 8:14:24 AM)
First, Oliver and Udoh are NOWHERE near $13 million in 2023. Where did you pull that number? https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings Then, in a simple comparo we have: - One of the best pass blocking TEs in the league + proven backup T + meh (Cleveland) G - Clev pass blocking TE + Clev backup T + ? G I'll take the former, easily. And down on the list of reasons why... what happens if Clev has to play RT (a position he has never played) and the team needs him to block at TE?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 8:29:16 AM)
After years of Udoh filling in at G and wherever, it's nice to see he's playing T. Decent, still improving, cheap, 26 years old. While blocking TE was overshadowed by other needs, it was still a need to help the running game go. Oliver is one of the best. Those are two unsung/overlooked positions where we are finally looking good. Two positions to definitely NOT mess with, especially for a single player who is unproven at BOTH positions. Dual-hatted Cleveland.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 1:27:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen After years of Udoh filling in at G and wherever, it's nice to see he's playing T. Decent, still improving, cheap, 26 years old. While blocking TE was overshadowed by other needs, it was still a need to help the running game go. Oliver is one of the best. Those are two unsung/overlooked positions where we are finally looking good. Two positions to definitely NOT mess with, especially for a single player who is unproven at BOTH positions. Dual-hatted Cleveland. Udoh was projected as a RT when drafted. Seems ever since Spielman has been GM he forced Zimmer to play Olineman out of position.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 2:44:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen First, Oliver and Udoh are NOWHERE near $13 million in 2023. Where did you pull that number? https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings Then, in a simple comparo we have: - One of the best pass blocking TEs in the league + proven backup T + meh (Cleveland) G - Clev pass blocking TE + Clev backup T + ? G I'll take the former, easily. And down on the list of reasons why... what happens if Clev has to play RT (a position he has never played) and the team needs him to block at TE? I wasn't implying our 2023 cap hit - I included oliver's guaranteed money/signing bonus if we only kept him one season...it doesn't necessarily have to be accounted for this season, but it does factor in.... i'm looking at creative, out-of-the-box ways to construct the best and most efficient vikings' team....

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 2:47:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen After years of Udoh filling in at G and wherever, it's nice to see he's playing T. Decent, still improving, cheap, 26 years old. While blocking TE was overshadowed by other needs, it was still a need to help the running game go. Oliver is one of the best. Those are two unsung/overlooked positions where we are finally looking good. Two positions to definitely NOT mess with, especially for a single player who is unproven at BOTH positions. Dual-hatted Cleveland. Udoh was projected as a RT when drafted. Seems ever since Spielman has been GM he forced Zimmer to play Olineman out of position. just like we're still doing with ingram on the right side, and Cleveland at guard.... ingram steps on cousins' right foot, and lead the league in pressures allowed...cleveland is a good run blocker, but fails at pass blocking....

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 6:16:37 PM)
It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 7:19:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott Ian Rapoport Retweeted Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero · 19m Now official: With no last-minute trade materializing, the #Vikings are releasing four-time Pro Bowl RB Dalvin Cook, who will be free to sign with any team later today. Rich Eisen@richeisen I honestly can’t believe the running back position has reached the point where a 1k rusher 4 straight years with 52 touchdowns gets released at age 27. You ball out in your next spot, @dalvincook [sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 7:45:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side. I'm sure he is as adept at stepping on Cousins left foot as he is at stepping on Cousins right foot.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/11/2023 11:19:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side. I'm sure he is as adept at stepping on Cousins left foot as he is at stepping on Cousins right foot. Cousins left foot is more likely to get stepped on than his right foot

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 7:53:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott Ian Rapoport Retweeted Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero · 19m Now official: With no last-minute trade materializing, the #Vikings are releasing four-time Pro Bowl RB Dalvin Cook, who will be free to sign with any team later today. Rich Eisen@richeisen I honestly can’t believe the running back position has reached the point where a 1k rusher 4 straight years with 52 touchdowns gets released at age 27. You ball out in your next spot, @dalvincook [sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif] Not entirely true....overpaid and wouldn't restructure. Look at Mattison's production when Cook was injured and we gave him a 2/7 million contract....tells you how much Cook is overpaid; by about double.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 8:07:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side. I'm sure he is as adept at stepping on Cousins left foot as he is at stepping on Cousins right foot. Cousins left foot is more likely to get stepped on than his right foot Depending on which side Ingram is playing.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 8:40:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side. I'm sure he is as adept at stepping on Cousins left foot as he is at stepping on Cousins right foot. Cousins left foot is more likely to get stepped on than his right foot Depending on which side Ingram is playing. It is weird how posters want to move Ingram to the other guard.....isn't Oline stability a key to getting better? The Oline is relatively young.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 8:45:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side. I'm sure he is as adept at stepping on Cousins left foot as he is at stepping on Cousins right foot. Cousins left foot is more likely to get stepped on than his right foot Depending on which side Ingram is playing. Possibly. Approximately 3/4 of a right handed QBs dropbacks start with the right foot.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 8:57:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott Ian Rapoport Retweeted Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero · 19m Now official: With no last-minute trade materializing, the #Vikings are releasing four-time Pro Bowl RB Dalvin Cook, who will be free to sign with any team later today. Rich Eisen@richeisen I honestly can’t believe the running back position has reached the point where a 1k rusher 4 straight years with 52 touchdowns gets released at age 27. You ball out in your next spot, @dalvincook [sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif] A 1,000 yard rusher = 58.83 yards a game. Maybe Rich can share with everybody the last time a highly paid running back carried a team to anything. In the last decade I wonder what the highest paid running back has been on a Super Bowl winning team.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 9:40:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side. I'm sure he is as adept at stepping on Cousins left foot as he is at stepping on Cousins right foot. Cousins left foot is more likely to get stepped on than his right foot Depending on which side Ingram is playing. Possibly. Approximately 3/4 of a right handed QBs dropbacks start with the right foot. Yet Ingram stepped on Cousins right foot multiple times, while Cleveland never stepped on his left foot once. If you are correct then I imagine Ingram would step on his left foot even more if they flip to the left side.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 10:01:13 AM)
If when pass blocking Ingram's first quick step backwards is his left foot, then it's possible he wouldn't step on Kirk's foot at all from LG, while he may have stepped on Kirk's foot several times from the right side.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 10:09:55 AM)
It is weird how posters want to move Ingram to the other guard.....isn't Oline stability a key to getting better? The Oline is relatively young. I would agree if the OL was great, I wouldn't change a thing if it were the Dallas OL of '94. The pass blocking is poor with both guard spots. Moving Ingram to LG where he played in college would probably make him better, maybe significantly better. Cleveland played LT in college. Moving him to RG, he would probably be the same as has been at LG, but he might be a little better, and maybe significantly better. IF Cleveland had a good LG to his right in college, moving to RG, it might feel more similar to his college days, having O'Neil to his right, instead of having Bradbury to his right. And moving to RG and having Bradbury to his left, it may also feel more like his college days, where he had essentially nothing to his left at LT 😉.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 11:02:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is weird how posters want to move Ingram to the other guard.....isn't Oline stability a key to getting better? The Oline is relatively young. I would agree if the OL was great, I wouldn't change a thing if it were the Dallas OL of '94. The pass blocking is poor with both guard spots. Moving Ingram to LG where he played in college would probably make him better, maybe significantly better. Cleveland played LT in college. Moving him to RG, he would probably be the same as has been at LG, but he might be a little better, and maybe significantly better. IF Cleveland had a good LG to his right in college, moving to RG, it might feel more similar to his college days, having O'Neil to his right, instead of having Bradbury to his right. And moving to RG and having Bradbury to his left, it may also feel more like his college days, where he had essentially nothing to his left at LT 😉. The oline was improved last year and Ingram was a rookie.....resigning Bradbury points to the Coaches thinking the same (about continuity) and improving.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 11:36:29 AM)
. Ingram played left guard for 4 years at LSU….

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 11:55:26 AM)
In his 4 years of playing LG at LSU, did Ed Ingram ever step on his QB's foot ?

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 11:55:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: marty It is Ingram's subconscious mind trying to show the coaches he is on the wrong side. I'm sure he is as adept at stepping on Cousins left foot as he is at stepping on Cousins right foot. Cousins left foot is more likely to get stepped on than his right foot Depending on which side Ingram is playing. Possibly. Approximately 3/4 of a right handed QBs dropbacks start with the right foot. Yet Ingram stepped on Cousins right foot multiple times, while Cleveland never stepped on his left foot once. If you are correct then I imagine Ingram would step on his left foot even more if they flip to the left side. The problem is, Ingram pulls to his left faster than Cousins can step back. Its not being on the left or right side because the LG has to pull right as well. The issue is Cousins being a three-toed sloth. Frankly, there's only one solution to helping Cousins to drop back faster: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1083352715735487

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/12/2023 12:10:47 PM)
Has any previous guard stepped on Kirk's toes ?

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