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ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 8:11:28 AM)
. . these are some of the guards presently available, and spotrac's annual salary estimate.... dalton risner…$9.5mm justin pugh…$5.5mm gabe jackson oday aboushi…$2.2mm

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 9:31:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . these are some of the guards presently available, and spotrac's annual salary estimate.... dalton risner…$9.5mm justin pugh…$5.5mm gabe jackson oday aboushi…$2.2mm Don't waste any cap space on Hunt. Give Risner 6-8M. He isn't getting more than that from anyone.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 9:32:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . these are some of the guards presently available, and spotrac's annual salary estimate.... dalton risner…$9.5mm justin pugh…$5.5mm gabe jackson oday aboushi…$2.2mm Not sure why we didn’t sign Risner … since we had him in the building, I will give Kwesi the benefit of the doubt that they at least vetted him and decided for some reason he wasn’t what they were looking for. From the outside it seems like a no brainer. We’ll probably sign a castoff or two OL during cut-downs to audition for backup / PS consideration. Maybe trade a 7th for a soon to be castoff that we overvalue. Its all just bandaids at this point. Should have addressed this in March April.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 10:29:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . these are some of the guards presently available, and spotrac's annual salary estimate.... dalton risner…$9.5mm justin pugh…$5.5mm gabe jackson oday aboushi…$2.2mm Not sure why we didn’t sign Risner … since we had him in the building, I will give Kwesi the benefit of the doubt that they at least vetted him and decided for some reason he wasn’t what they were looking for. From the outside it seems like a no brainer. We’ll probably sign a castoff or two OL during cut-downs to audition for backup / PS consideration. Maybe trade a 7th for a soon to be castoff that we overvalue. Its all just bandaids at this point. Should have addressed this in March April. Guessing Kwesi was bargain bin shopping on Risner whom is more than likely looking for a long term 9-10 avv contract being he just ended his rookie deal. Kwesi has been very scooge like giving out deals this off season.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 10:53:51 AM)
Did a little exorcise in This org's IOL futility dating back 25 years. There have only been 2 worthwhile players in that time period this org drafted. Birk 98, Sully 08. Here is a list of the turds: Malone Ta'amu Johnson DeGeare Fusco Love Baca Bond Yankey Thompson Beavers Isodora Gossett Samia Elflain Bradbury Cleveland Hinton Davis Ingram You have to travel back to 1988 when I believe Denny Green picked (HOF)Randall McDaniel to find even a serviceable player to actually play G. In that span we've had some success picking some T's. But G has been an enigma.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 11:27:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Did a little exorcise in This org's IOL futility dating back 25 years. There have only been 2 worthwhile players in that time period this org drafted. Birk 98, Sully 08. Here is a list of the turds: Malone Ta'amu Johnson DeGeare Fusco Love Baca Bond Yankey Thompson Beavers Isodora Gossett Samia Elflain Bradbury Cleveland Hinton Davis Ingram You have to travel back to 1988 when I believe Denny Green picked (HOF)Randall McDaniel to find even a serviceable player to actually play G. In that span we've had some success picking some T's. But G has been an enigma. Mike Lynn. Burns was the coach. Denny didn't get here until 1992.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 2:36:24 PM)
Ben Goessling @BenGoessling · 54s Source confirms the #Vikings are signing linebacker Tanner Vallejo, most recently of the Cardinals. He played all 17 games last year, starting five. - when I started readingit i was hoping guard

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2023 6:06:14 PM)
For those pining for Trey Lance, he was God awful today against the Raiders.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 8:19:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . these are some of the guards presently available, and spotrac's annual salary estimate.... dalton risner…$9.5mm justin pugh…$5.5mm gabe jackson oday aboushi…$2.2mm Don't waste any cap space on Hunt. Give Risner 6-8M. He isn't getting more than that from anyone. Just bringing in Hunt tells us that the coaching staff isn't enamored with the last 2 guys. We need a David Palmer type option; not sure if that is Kene or not.

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 9:46:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser For those pining for Trey Lance, he was God awful today against the Raiders. Duke Shelley (#23) with the tip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF5-XleNpaI

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 10:15:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . these are some of the guards presently available, and spotrac's annual salary estimate.... dalton risner…$9.5mm justin pugh…$5.5mm gabe jackson oday aboushi…$2.2mm Don't waste any cap space on Hunt. Give Risner 6-8M. He isn't getting more than that from anyone. Just bringing in Hunt tells us that the coaching staff isn't enamored with the last 2 guys. We need a David Palmer type option; not sure if that is Kene or not. It could also mean that someone in the Vikings organization feels it's beneficial to play ball with Hunt's agent so as to keep a good relationship. I could be as simple as that.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 10:26:12 AM)
Risner probably wants a multi-year contract. Nobody has signed him, and there is a decent chance he is on the first step towards journeyman status. Comparing him to our IOL trash makes him look good, but he's still mediocre. It's hope piled on top of hope, but the IOL gets rebuilt. Risner then becomes a too-expensive backup. Kwesi just got around to having enough cap to get out of his mom's basement. Wasting cap on the Risner's of the world sends him right back to it.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 10:32:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser For those pining for Trey Lance, he was God awful today against the Raiders. Duke Shelley (#23) with the tip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF5-XleNpaI Yeap. His one "positive stat" was a terrible throw that was an endzone pick that Shelley gifted to a TD.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 11:03:46 AM)
Shelley to Dwelley, lol. 🤣

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 12:07:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Risner probably wants a multi-year contract. Nobody has signed him, and there is a decent chance he is on the first step towards journeyman status. Comparing him to our IOL trash makes him look good, but he's still mediocre. It's hope piled on top of hope, but the IOL gets rebuilt. Risner then becomes a too-expensive backup. Kwesi just got around to having enough cap to get out of his mom's basement. Wasting cap on the Risner's of the world sends him right back to it. That's a fairly apocalyptic view of signing a serviceable G. I have no idea what the money or terms would be, so its easy for me to wildly inaccurately speculate that signing Risner would NOT seriously impact this year or future year's of cap space and throw us back to the stone age. Or interfere with extending JJ Hock Darrisaw in the next 1-2 years. It may impact spending on an average serviceable defensive starter at this point but I'm not sure that's even on KAM-KOC's radar. Maybe Risner is asking for too much, maybe we decided his pass blocking is fine but his run blocking wasn't rugged enough for our new tip-of-the-TE-spear roundhouse-kick approach to our offense. Who knows. But dollar for dollar (on offense) ... for today/this season, upgrading one of our IOLineman sure beats the hell out of renting a veteran rb or any other offensive position we might be flirting with. It also trumps trading a late rd pick during cutdowns to 'win' a castoff battle with other teams over a much less serviceable player than Risner. You know it's looming.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 1:45:23 PM)
This is the first I heard what was up with TJ H. Is this a big miss for me or were others in the dark as well? Andrew Krammer @Andrew_Krammer · 30s T.J. Hockenson appeared to be a full participant in the Vikings' walkthrough practice today. Ran routes with Josh Oliver and the starting offense. But he's still on the mend. “I’m good. I’m starting to get cleared up. I had an ear infection that was messing with my equilibrium."

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 2:24:37 PM)
There was a lot of speculation that he was sitting out until his deal got done but then he was seen yucking it up on the sidelines with Mark Wilf. Doubt that happens if they are hammering out negotiations or he's unhappy.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 4:07:46 PM)
Can you imagine if we had a bully LG next to Darrisaw and Oliver, We would no longer have to punt after getting stuffed on 3rd and 1.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 4:44:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Risner probably wants a multi-year contract. Nobody has signed him, and there is a decent chance he is on the first step towards journeyman status. Comparing him to our IOL trash makes him look good, but he's still mediocre. It's hope piled on top of hope, but the IOL gets rebuilt. Risner then becomes a too-expensive backup. Kwesi just got around to having enough cap to get out of his mom's basement. Wasting cap on the Risner's of the world sends him right back to it. That's a fairly apocalyptic view of signing a serviceable G. I have no idea what the money or terms would be, so its easy for me to wildly inaccurately speculate that signing Risner would NOT seriously impact this year or future year's of cap space and throw us back to the stone age. Or interfere with extending JJ Hock Darrisaw in the next 1-2 years. It may impact spending on an average serviceable defensive starter at this point but I'm not sure that's even on KAM-KOC's radar. Maybe Risner is asking for too much, maybe we decided his pass blocking is fine but his run blocking wasn't rugged enough for our new tip-of-the-TE-spear roundhouse-kick approach to our offense. Who knows. But dollar for dollar (on offense) ... for today/this season, upgrading one of our IOLineman sure beats the hell out of renting a veteran rb or any other offensive position we might be flirting with. It also trumps trading a late rd pick during cutdowns to 'win' a castoff battle with other teams over a much less serviceable player than Risner. You know it's looming. Yes, we have no idea what the terms would be. The premise of that post is he wants a multi-year contract, say as a minimum 3 years/$24 million with a lot guaranteed. And while such a signing may not "seriously" impact future cap, we have those players you list. And apparently you are figuring we will start a rookie QB vs a proven one acquired via trade or free agency. Otherwise, add in a QB and throw in Cousins $28.5 dead cap, not to mention tens of millions in other dead cap. Guess the positive thing about a no-talent defense is there are no pending big $ contracts or salaries coming due (depending on Harrison Smith). Sure, "for today/this season", go and sign him. But I'm of the belief he doesn't want to sign for just this season. Going into the deep speculation realm, perhaps he and his agent know he is barely above average and these few months are his one chance to cash in big time. And yes, renting him for a year does trump a castoff battle. But unlike you, I don't think a guard acquired via a late draft pick trade threatening Cleveland and Ingram is looming. What we DO know is Denver didn't keep him and nobody else has signed him. And he was part of a shitty Denver offense. I don't recall hearing oh Risner is one of the bright spots.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 4:52:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Risner probably wants a multi-year contract. Nobody has signed him, and there is a decent chance he is on the first step towards journeyman status. Comparing him to our IOL trash makes him look good, but he's still mediocre. It's hope piled on top of hope, but the IOL gets rebuilt. Risner then becomes a too-expensive backup. Kwesi just got around to having enough cap to get out of his mom's basement. Wasting cap on the Risner's of the world sends him right back to it. That's a fairly apocalyptic view of signing a serviceable G. I have no idea what the money or terms would be, so its easy for me to wildly inaccurately speculate that signing Risner would NOT seriously impact this year or future year's of cap space and throw us back to the stone age. Or interfere with extending JJ Hock Darrisaw in the next 1-2 years. It may impact spending on an average serviceable defensive starter at this point but I'm not sure that's even on KAM-KOC's radar. Maybe Risner is asking for too much, maybe we decided his pass blocking is fine but his run blocking wasn't rugged enough for our new tip-of-the-TE-spear roundhouse-kick approach to our offense. Who knows. But dollar for dollar (on offense) ... for today/this season, upgrading one of our IOLineman sure beats the hell out of renting a veteran rb or any other offensive position we might be flirting with. It also trumps trading a late rd pick during cutdowns to 'win' a castoff battle with other teams over a much less serviceable player than Risner. You know it's looming. we need it, and we need it now.... it's hard to believe that we have to beg kwesi to do this - after begging spielman for years.... this is a time where cousins has to assert himself - demand that one of his starting guards be at least average.... kirk!...get your ass up to kwesi's office and tell him he's failing at his job!....

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 5:03:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Can you imagine if we had a bully LG next to Darrisaw and Oliver, We would no longer have to punt after getting stuffed on 3rd and 1. Yes! A difference making bully who of course happens to be a really good pass blocker. They get drafted and if they somehow hit free agency, they are day one signings. Actually they probably come to terms with a team in the legal tampering period. Conversely, there are players who are not that good, overvalue themselves, etc, and find themselves unsigned on, oh, August 14. They are missing camp and any OL cohesion. They are probably either pissed at their agent or huddling about what kind of desperation contract they could take. They have to be thinking, come on, there are 32 GMs... won't one sign me?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 5:13:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Risner probably wants a multi-year contract. Nobody has signed him, and there is a decent chance he is on the first step towards journeyman status. Comparing him to our IOL trash makes him look good, but he's still mediocre. It's hope piled on top of hope, but the IOL gets rebuilt. Risner then becomes a too-expensive backup. Kwesi just got around to having enough cap to get out of his mom's basement. Wasting cap on the Risner's of the world sends him right back to it. That's a fairly apocalyptic view of signing a serviceable G. I have no idea what the money or terms would be, so its easy for me to wildly inaccurately speculate that signing Risner would NOT seriously impact this year or future year's of cap space and throw us back to the stone age. Or interfere with extending JJ Hock Darrisaw in the next 1-2 years. It may impact spending on an average serviceable defensive starter at this point but I'm not sure that's even on KAM-KOC's radar. Maybe Risner is asking for too much, maybe we decided his pass blocking is fine but his run blocking wasn't rugged enough for our new tip-of-the-TE-spear roundhouse-kick approach to our offense. Who knows. But dollar for dollar (on offense) ... for today/this season, upgrading one of our IOLineman sure beats the hell out of renting a veteran rb or any other offensive position we might be flirting with. It also trumps trading a late rd pick during cutdowns to 'win' a castoff battle with other teams over a much less serviceable player than Risner. You know it's looming. we need it, and we need it now.... it's hard to believe that we have to beg kwesi to do this - after begging spielman for years.... this is a time where cousins has to assert himself - demand that one of his starting guards be at least average.... kirk!...get your ass up to kwesi's office and tell him he's failing at his job!.... Every Viking employee has to know the guards suck. Ingram for one was a rookie so we'll see. Perhaps there are stats that show a rookie that bad needs to be replaced with practically anyone, I don't know but do hold out hope for him. Anyway, you are right... an "at least average" guard would be an improvement. But KC won't march up there as that is not his nature and he knows that would destroy the collaborative BS that Kwesi harps on. And even though I've slammed Kwesi, why should he likely commit a fair chunk of cap to some guy nobody else has signed? What would you sign him for?

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 5:16:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen And even though I've slammed Kwesi, why should he likely commit a fair chunk of cap to some guy nobody else has signed? What would you sign him for? Right. With the dearth of decent O-Linement league-wide, if this guy was any kind of "cure-all", why has no other team even brought him in for a visit?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 5:21:44 PM)
And if Cousins stormed into Kwesi's office demanding an "at least average" guard, I hope Kwesi would ask just what in the hell besides brain-wave therapy have you done to increase your mobility. Perhaps it would be like Cousins v Zimmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlsFltOgL-U but Kwesi weathers the storm and comes out moving and sticking in his slick loafers.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2023 5:35:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen And if Cousins stormed into Kwesi's office demanding an "at least average" guard, I hope Kwesi would ask just what in the hell besides brain-wave therapy have you done to increase your mobility. Perhaps it would be like Cousins v Zimmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlsFltOgL-U but Kwesi weathers the storm and comes out moving and sticking in his slick loafers. I understand the mountain of circumstantial evidence to NOT sign Risner. There must be some reason, blemish, personality defect. Maybe he likes panda steaks or fighting hawksbill turtles in the offseason. I just wish I had a clue because the swirling vortex in our OL is all too real.

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