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paulgly -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 12:18:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lars My $0.02: Turnovers are killing this team - especially when and where they are occurring. I think they would be 2-0 otherwise. The run game by PHI last night was a good counter to the defense I think they designed to run: not gonna get beat over the top and we will contain Hurts. Did pretty well with that. If the front 7 played a bit better..... Cousins played very well. The IOL is weak. However, I expected much worse when starters started dropping like flies. Harry is toast. Hicks played a good game, as did Hunter. Mattison is fine. He's not the problem, it's the OL getting pushed around. Meh...going in I expected to lose by 10+. The fact that is was only 6 with all of the self-inflicted wounds is noteworthy. SKOL Agree with almost all except the Mattison is fine part. 1 fumble, 2nd taken away by a penalty. Lowest PFF score of anyone on offense. And I know it's PFF but honestly that matches the eye test. Any RB on the waiver wire + Chandler would be the same IMO

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 12:31:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paulgly quote: ORIGINAL: Lars My $0.02: Turnovers are killing this team - especially when and where they are occurring. I think they would be 2-0 otherwise. The run game by PHI last night was a good counter to the defense I think they designed to run: not gonna get beat over the top and we will contain Hurts. Did pretty well with that. If the front 7 played a bit better..... Cousins played very well. The IOL is weak. However, I expected much worse when starters started dropping like flies. Harry is toast. Hicks played a good game, as did Hunter. Mattison is fine. He's not the problem, it's the OL getting pushed around. Meh...going in I expected to lose by 10+. The fact that is was only 6 with all of the self-inflicted wounds is noteworthy. SKOL Agree with almost all except the Mattison is fine part. 1 fumble, 2nd taken away by a penalty. Lowest PFF score of anyone on offense. And I know it's PFF but honestly that matches the eye test. Any RB on the waiver wire + Chandler would be the same IMO I agree with Lars on Mattison. There are absolutely no running lanes. Mattison is pretty much on his own getting through the line. The fumbles aren't characteristic of his career.

paulgly -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 12:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: paulgly quote: ORIGINAL: Lars My $0.02: Turnovers are killing this team - especially when and where they are occurring. I think they would be 2-0 otherwise. The run game by PHI last night was a good counter to the defense I think they designed to run: not gonna get beat over the top and we will contain Hurts. Did pretty well with that. If the front 7 played a bit better..... Cousins played very well. The IOL is weak. However, I expected much worse when starters started dropping like flies. Harry is toast. Hicks played a good game, as did Hunter. Mattison is fine. He's not the problem, it's the OL getting pushed around. Meh...going in I expected to lose by 10+. The fact that is was only 6 with all of the self-inflicted wounds is noteworthy. SKOL Agree with almost all except the Mattison is fine part. 1 fumble, 2nd taken away by a penalty. Lowest PFF score of anyone on offense. And I know it's PFF but honestly that matches the eye test. Any RB on the waiver wire + Chandler would be the same IMO I agree with Lars on Mattison. There are absolutely no running lanes. Mattison is pretty much on his own getting through the line. The fumbles aren't characteristic of his career. Fumbles are what they are however IMO he's a replacement level type RB and the epitome of a guy you don't re-sign. Not fast or even quick, might break a tackle here or there. O-line is bad and I'm not saying Dalvin would do any better (he wouldn't) but Mattison has never been all that impressive in previous years. Regardless we can probably all agree that the running game as it exists is pretty unacceptable

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 12:51:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen The Eagles are a great barometer to determine how good or bad a teams OL and DL are. That game should not have created any revelations, especially about the DL. The 16 play drive with 13 rushes I think set some obscure record(s). And the runs up the gut later were also embarrassing. A massacre. It was a given the IOL would suck. And Mattison had nowhere to run. Cousins played a heck of a game. Yup, I thought he was more aggressive than usual throwing into tight windows. Threw a few balls that JJ had to pluck away from Slay. A shame Osborn couldn't do the same on the INT. That's KJ's biggest problem. He's terrible at contested balls, and not great when he has to adjust to a throw to make a catch. He's a #3 WR that will make some plays, but he's not really much more trustworthy than Reagor was. Addison clearly has #2 ability, I hope his body holds up.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 12:52:55 PM)
If Mattison had even a portion of the wide-open running lanes that Swift had, he wouldn't be a topic today unless he was being praised.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 12:59:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen The Eagles are a great barometer to determine how good or bad a teams OL and DL are. That game should not have created any revelations, especially about the DL. The 16 play drive with 13 rushes I think set some obscure record(s). And the runs up the gut later were also embarrassing. A massacre. It was a given the IOL would suck. And Mattison had nowhere to run. Cousins played a heck of a game. Yup, I thought he was more aggressive than usual throwing into tight windows. Threw a few balls that JJ had to pluck away from Slay. A shame Osborn couldn't do the same on the INT. That's KJ's biggest problem. He's terrible at contested balls, and not great when he has to adjust to a throw to make a catch. He's a #3 WR that will make some plays, but he's not really much more trustworthy than Reagor was. Addison clearly has #2 ability, I hope his body holds up. 30% of his catches are basically untouched TDs, so that has to help!

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 1:04:31 PM)
Osborn looks like he has a lower center of gravity and runs like he is stomping the turf. Maybe sort of musclebound? Good observation on his not being adept to adjusting to the ball.

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 1:28:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I don't think any running back can have success behind a worthless OLine, so still see no need to spend money on the position. Cousins is about the last thing wrong with the team. I wonder if Hunter has decent trade value at the deadline if the season is toast. Never ever pay a RB, LB, or Safety big money. If they are that good...trade them and invest in OL DL and DB. C and RG are a problem. Granted you are not going to have stud everywhere, and you need a really good O line with an immobile QB I still don't know how you look at defensive line of Bullard/Tonga, Phillips and Lowry, and think that is a legitimate defensive line I mean it's laughably bad. Phillips is a rotational guy at best, those other 3.........couldn't even make Philly's roster. My hope is down deep Kwesi damn new this team does not have the resources to complete with the elite teams in this league, and this year is all about providing fans some fun with the shiny offense, meanwhile setting up this team for 2024/2205 with cap space. Got a lot of work to do though on the lines of this team, and Cousins likely will not be back. 6 years, 1 playoff win, you just gotta move on. Don't get fooled by the "close" games. The league is set up for parity. There's really only about 6 to 7 teams that truly have a change to win this thing. The Vikings are in that massive group of mediorce teams They were there last year, they just had a lot of breaks go their way. Well said. All Phillips seems to do is slow dance with the offensive lineman and then dive toward the running back whose already 5 yards past him. He's a backup. This is perhaps the worst defensive line in the history of the franchise.

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 1:32:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do. All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline. The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F. Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards. 48 rushing attempts. I wonder how many other teams will come close to that number this season? It's an indictment of Kwesi. I can't blame Flores or O'Connell for assembling such an awful defensive line. The one drive where the Eagles ran the ball every play and scored...I don't remember seeing anything like that outside of high school football game. Flores had no answer to it and how could he since his linemen where being bullied 5 yards downfield on every play...he had no one he could put in to stop it. Embarrassing.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 1:54:30 PM)
If Vikes lose to Chargers and go 0-3, it's time to bail. Trade Cousins to the Jets for a pick(s) and promising player on IOL or DL. Trade Hunter too. We might even get some cap off the books to roll into next year.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 1:58:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen If Vikes lose to Chargers and go 0-3, it's time to bail. Trade Cousins to the Jets for a pick(s) and promising player on IOL or DL. Trade Hunter too. We might even get some cap off the books to roll into next year. Watch us trade him for Rodgers...

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 1:59:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen If Mattison had even a portion of the wide-open running lanes that Swift had, he wouldn't be a topic today unless he was being praised. There’s a place for a big bruiser rb (thats not that big) but not as the focus of your rush ‘attack’. Yes he didn’t have Swift’s gaping holes … he won’t this year. He doesn’t have Swift’s squatty movement skills and vision either when the holes weren’t there. Mattison is better than he looked last night but he’s more of a complementary player IMO.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 2:00:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Osborn looks like he has a lower center of gravity and runs like he is stomping the turf. Maybe sort of musclebound? Good observation on his not being adept to adjusting to the ball. Its something I've noticed in the past as well, and possibly a reason Kirk has mostly ignored him if not wide-open. I think most #2 WRs score a TD on that ball last week that he coughed up.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 2:12:10 PM)
Defensive starters on 12/01/2021: Wonnum Watts Tomlinson Yarborough Barr Hendricks Vigil Peterson Breeland Smith Woods The offense is remarkably similar to last night, but with Udoh at RG, Theilen, Cook, and all different TEs. Kwesi had to revamp the entire defense. A big problem is all but striking out on Cine and Booth. And with cap hell, there weren't many FA options besides filler. He delayed cutting the deadwood. So here we are with a D that, as stated before, resembles one you'd see on an expansion team. It's an evaluation season, and it would be incredible to have seven defensive players step up as solid, entrenched starters. That would 'only' leave four spots to address. As it stands, we might be extremely lucky to have 3-5 step up.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 2:15:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do. All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline. The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F. Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards. The Vikings defied the odds in a big way by winning 13 games while getting their asses kicked at the line of scrimmage game after game. They did nothing to improve the oline and made the dline even worse. I have a feeling the law of average is going to swing hard in the other direction. Like already being 0-2 in one score games? It wouldn't surprise me if we 0-11 in one score games this year. Odin has come to collect.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 2:22:14 PM)
I usually love the offseason, but with a lot of draft resources going for IMO a QB and about $40 million in unavailable cap I don't see how we even begin to address IOL, DL, and LB. Almost every position on those three units require a talent upgrade. And that's hoping the secondary pans out. It will be year three of a five year rebuild.... if Kwesi hits on the acquisitions.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 2:30:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen The Eagles are a great barometer to determine how good or bad a teams OL and DL are. That game should not have created any revelations, especially about the DL. The 16 play drive with 13 rushes I think set some obscure record(s). And the runs up the gut later were also embarrassing. A massacre. It was a given the IOL would suck. And Mattison had nowhere to run. Cousins played a heck of a game. Yup, I thought he was more aggressive than usual throwing into tight windows. Threw a few balls that JJ had to pluck away from Slay. A shame Osborn couldn't do the same on the INT. That's KJ's biggest problem. He's terrible at contested balls, and not great when he has to adjust to a throw to make a catch. He's a #3 WR that will make some plays, but he's not really much more trustworthy than Reagor was. Addison clearly has #2 ability, I hope his body holds up. While I agree Addison should be wr #2 Osborn is much better than Reagor. He can run routes correctly and is where he's suppose to be. He does have some flaws that he clearly needs to work on but i don't think it's fair to lump him in with Reagor.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 2:42:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I usually love the offseason, but with a lot of draft resources going for IMO a QB and about $40 million in unavailable cap I don't see how we even begin to address IOL, DL, and LB. Almost every position on those three units require a talent upgrade. And that's hoping the secondary pans out. It will be year three of a five year rebuild.... if Kwesi hits on the acquisitions. At this pace the Vikings won't need to trade up to get the QB they want. [:D]

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 3:11:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen The Eagles are a great barometer to determine how good or bad a teams OL and DL are. That game should not have created any revelations, especially about the DL. The 16 play drive with 13 rushes I think set some obscure record(s). And the runs up the gut later were also embarrassing. A massacre. It was a given the IOL would suck. And Mattison had nowhere to run. Cousins played a heck of a game. Yup, I thought he was more aggressive than usual throwing into tight windows. Threw a few balls that JJ had to pluck away from Slay. A shame Osborn couldn't do the same on the INT. That's KJ's biggest problem. He's terrible at contested balls, and not great when he has to adjust to a throw to make a catch. He's a #3 WR that will make some plays, but he's not really much more trustworthy than Reagor was. Addison clearly has #2 ability, I hope his body holds up. While I agree Addison should be wr #2 Osborn is much better than Reagor. He can run routes correctly and is where he's suppose to be. He does have some flaws that he clearly needs to work on but i don't think it's fair to lump him in with Reagor. My point is that if you're relying on either in a key situation, there is a better than average chance of something bad happening.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 3:30:40 PM)
Go all in on week 3. If you lose its time to start trading.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 3:58:07 PM)
Sounds like next week is our first playoff game

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 4:29:57 PM)
That onside kick still has me laughing. I can barely throw a bowling ball that flat.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 4:54:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser That onside kick still has me laughing. I can barely throw a bowling ball that flat. I'm not sure I've ever seen one roll like that without bouncing. I was fired up for something big to happen to us for once

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 4:56:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser That onside kick still has me laughing. I can barely throw a bowling ball that flat. I'm not sure I've ever seen one roll like that without bouncing. I was fired up for something big to happen to us for once Had we got it I was thinking they'll just run the clock out on themselves. Sometimes it seems like I like the most goofy franchise in sports.

kevinemmer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/15/2023 5:27:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser That onside kick still has me laughing. I can barely throw a bowling ball that flat. I'm not sure I've ever seen one roll like that without bouncing. I was fired up for something big to happen to us for once Ive never seen one laid on the turf like that, wtf? [:-] If you're going to try something new, how about a very high and short kick that causes all kinds of mayhem under it, seems like you'd have a 50/50 chance to recover with all the jostling under it...[:'(]

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