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David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:13:54 PM)
Even though GB doesn't get the JETS 1st round pick next year, they can essentially "hold it hostage" through the trade deadline: Aaron Rodgers had to play at least 65% of the offensive snaps for the New York Jets this season for the Green Bay Packers to get a 2024 first-round pick for him. With Rodgers' season ending after four plays due to a torn Achilles, that condition will not be met, and the Packers will ultimately get a 2024 second-round pick to conclude the trade for the four-time NFL MVP. But that wasn't the only condition in the language of the trade paperwork between the Jets and Packers, according to multiple sources who spoke to CBS Sports this week. Even though the Jets are guaranteed to send their second-round pick to the Packers, the Jets still do not have full control of their 2024 first-round pick because, technically, all of the conditions of the trade have not yet been met. The NFL does not allow teams to deal picks not under their full control, so the Jets' first- and second-round picks will essentially be held in escrow for the entirety of the 2023 season. At the end of the year, Green Bay will get the Jets' second-rounder and Gang Green will officially own its first. If the Jets wish to trade for a player who would require first-round compensation before the Oct. 31 deadline, they'll have to create terms that add a condition on top of a condition in order to satisfy the league. According to a source, the Packers included particular language in the trade to protect themselves in case of any surprises. The language related to any potential transaction the Jets could do to circumvent Rodgers' salary or a Rodgers trade for any reason. The language would protect the Packers and their trade compensation if the Jets tried to release and later sign Rodgers or if Rodgers forced a trade this year. And because either of those things could theoretically happen — even though there's virtually no chance of it taking place in reality — the trade conditions have not yet been completed and thus both picks are still in escrow. ----------- But the Jets can still use the pick with some help. A team can agree to the aforementioned trade condition — holding a future first or some combination of picks until the 2024 first becomes free — or the Jets can go back to Green Bay and rework the language in the deal. Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst and the rest of the organization could agree to relieve the Jets of any conditional obligations now that Rodgers is done for the season and any unlikely transaction that could impact the Packers wouldn't take place. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/aaron-rodgers-fallout-jets-dont-control-2024-first-round-pick-thanks-in-part-to-brett-favre/

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:15:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: marty As much as Kirk put up some nice stats in the last game, after the poor first half, I thought the first drive of the 3rd quarter was REALLY important. On the play where Kirk had the ball knocked loose from him, had he had some mobility and just ran for a few yards on that play, it could have been the difference in the game. Kirk reminds of Romo a bit, where in many cases he does the team in, then comes back and puts up nice stats in the last half, which makes him look good. But the opposing team gets a little lax on defense, but tightens up when the Vikings get too close On the play you were referring to, he was blindsided by the Edge rusher after Oli Udoh turnstyled his protection. Cousins didn't know what hit him. Kirk had a full three seconds + on that play - enough time to bring the ball back down.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:25:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Even though GB doesn't get the JETS 1st round pick next year, they can essentially "hold it hostage" through the trade deadline: Aaron Rodgers had to play at least 65% of the offensive snaps for the New York Jets this season for the Green Bay Packers to get a 2024 first-round pick for him. With Rodgers' season ending after four plays due to a torn Achilles, that condition will not be met, and the Packers will ultimately get a 2024 second-round pick to conclude the trade for the four-time NFL MVP. But that wasn't the only condition in the language of the trade paperwork between the Jets and Packers, according to multiple sources who spoke to CBS Sports this week. Even though the Jets are guaranteed to send their second-round pick to the Packers, the Jets still do not have full control of their 2024 first-round pick because, technically, all of the conditions of the trade have not yet been met. The NFL does not allow teams to deal picks not under their full control, so the Jets' first- and second-round picks will essentially be held in escrow for the entirety of the 2023 season. At the end of the year, Green Bay will get the Jets' second-rounder and Gang Green will officially own its first. If the Jets wish to trade for a player who would require first-round compensation before the Oct. 31 deadline, they'll have to create terms that add a condition on top of a condition in order to satisfy the league. According to a source, the Packers included particular language in the trade to protect themselves in case of any surprises. The language related to any potential transaction the Jets could do to circumvent Rodgers' salary or a Rodgers trade for any reason. The language would protect the Packers and their trade compensation if the Jets tried to release and later sign Rodgers or if Rodgers forced a trade this year. And because either of those things could theoretically happen — even though there's virtually no chance of it taking place in reality — the trade conditions have not yet been completed and thus both picks are still in escrow. ----------- But the Jets can still use the pick with some help. A team can agree to the aforementioned trade condition — holding a future first or some combination of picks until the 2024 first becomes free — or the Jets can go back to Green Bay and rework the language in the deal. Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst and the rest of the organization could agree to relieve the Jets of any conditional obligations now that Rodgers is done for the season and any unlikely transaction that could impact the Packers wouldn't take place. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/aaron-rodgers-fallout-jets-dont-control-2024-first-round-pick-thanks-in-part-to-brett-favre/ Read that the other day. I don't think anyone coughs up a first rounder for Cousins so figure it isn't applicable. The Jets owe GB their second round pick and that was a hopeful pick. So there is their third, but I would hope it's a third plus more.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:28:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: marty As much as Kirk put up some nice stats in the last game, after the poor first half, I thought the first drive of the 3rd quarter was REALLY important. On the play where Kirk had the ball knocked loose from him, had he had some mobility and just ran for a few yards on that play, it could have been the difference in the game. Kirk reminds of Romo a bit, where in many cases he does the team in, then comes back and puts up nice stats in the last half, which makes him look good. But the opposing team gets a little lax on defense, but tightens up when the Vikings get too close On the play you were referring to, he was blindsided by the Edge rusher after Oli Udoh turnstyled his protection. Cousins didn't know what hit him. Kirk had a full three seconds + on that play - enough time to bring the ball back down. Three whole seconds. That is nothing in the pocket. and it doesn't matter because he didn't see the hit coming. Let's blame this on Kirk. It's all Kirk's Fault. Not the pathetic attempt at blocking made by Oli Udoh. He barely put a hand on the guy. a QB should expect a second or two more than he got. He got NO protection on that play from Udoh

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:29:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall former Viking Kyle Rudolph was on Fox Sports Radio saying Vikings should consider trading Cousins to Jets. He said you can't afford to pay Jefferson over $30 million dollars a year and also have a top paid QB (If Vikings extended Cousins again). He mentioned KC trading away Hill when they had Mahomes. Perhaps the ball is in Cousin's court after the season, take a discount (NFL players seem to have too much pride for that, if they take a big pay cut they go somewhere else to do it). The Vikings front office is on the clock now, I think the honeymoon is over. I've mentioned trading him to the Jets as well. Seems now there's some rooting interest in it happening. Like Greenie. I'm not opposed to trading Cousins to the Jets, however, we've only played two games and are currently one game out of first place. IF the Jets call the Vikings about Cousins this week, how do you respond? Do you want the season to play out a few more games to see where you're at standings wise or do you pull the trigger to trade him and give up on the season hoping for a high draft pick? If you wait, does that mean the Jets will look elsewhere? Of course, the biggest unknown is whether the Jets have any interest in Cousins. and just what would they be willing to give up, to get him. would it be worth it for us? They did just trade a bunch of picks for another QB after all. Not that much. Basically two second rounders. The Packers agreed Monday to deal quarterback Aaron Rodgers and their 2023 first-round pick (No. 15) and a 2023 fifth-round pick (No. 170) to the Jets for New York's 2023 first-round pick (No. 13), a 2023 second-round pick (No. 42), a 2023 sixth-round pick (No. 207) and a conditional 2024 second-round pick that becomes a first if Rodgers plays 65% of the plays this season, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter on Monday.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:33:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall former Viking Kyle Rudolph was on Fox Sports Radio saying Vikings should consider trading Cousins to Jets. He said you can't afford to pay Jefferson over $30 million dollars a year and also have a top paid QB (If Vikings extended Cousins again). He mentioned KC trading away Hill when they had Mahomes. Perhaps the ball is in Cousin's court after the season, take a discount (NFL players seem to have too much pride for that, if they take a big pay cut they go somewhere else to do it). The Vikings front office is on the clock now, I think the honeymoon is over. I've mentioned trading him to the Jets as well. Seems now there's some rooting interest in it happening. Like Greenie. I'm not opposed to trading Cousins to the Jets, however, we've only played two games and are currently one game out of first place. IF the Jets call the Vikings about Cousins this week, how do you respond? Do you want the season to play out a few more games to see where you're at standings wise or do you pull the trigger to trade him and give up on the season hoping for a high draft pick? If you wait, does that mean the Jets will look elsewhere? Of course, the biggest unknown is whether the Jets have any interest in Cousins. and just what would they be willing to give up, to get him. would it be worth it for us? They did just trade a bunch of picks for another QB after all. Not that much. Basically two second rounders. The Packers agreed Monday to deal quarterback Aaron Rodgers and their 2023 first-round pick (No. 15) and a 2023 fifth-round pick (No. 170) to the Jets for New York's 2023 first-round pick (No. 13), a 2023 second-round pick (No. 42), a 2023 sixth-round pick (No. 207) and a conditional 2024 second-round pick that becomes a first if Rodgers plays 65% of the plays this season, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter on Monday. My point is they just gave up picks, they don't want to have to give up more and leave themselves without a draft next year. They built the defense on draft picks mostly. That team wont want to give up what we would want in pick compensation. And if they didn't give up much as you are insinuating for Rodgers, they woudl give up far less for Cousins. I don't think it would be worth it to trade him to the Jets. JMO

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:40:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: marty As much as Kirk put up some nice stats in the last game, after the poor first half, I thought the first drive of the 3rd quarter was REALLY important. On the play where Kirk had the ball knocked loose from him, had he had some mobility and just ran for a few yards on that play, it could have been the difference in the game. Kirk reminds of Romo a bit, where in many cases he does the team in, then comes back and puts up nice stats in the last half, which makes him look good. But the opposing team gets a little lax on defense, but tightens up when the Vikings get too close On the play you were referring to, he was blindsided by the Edge rusher after Oli Udoh turnstyled his protection. Cousins didn't know what hit him. Kirk had a full three seconds + on that play - enough time to bring the ball back down. Three whole seconds. That is nothing in the pocket. and it doesn't matter because he didn't see the hit coming. Let's blame this on Kirk. It's all Kirk's Fault. Not the pathetic attempt at blocking made by Oli Udoh. He barely put a hand on the guy. a QB should expect a second or two more than he got. He got NO protection on that play from Udoh I didn't blame anyone or anything. It's not even a terrible fumble. I'd like to know why he didn't pull the trigger on his first read. Three seconds is an eternity. To expect four or five seconds without moving in the pocket is not realistic. Our C and RG are poor but the protection hasn't been nearly as bad as the perception.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:48:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: marty As much as Kirk put up some nice stats in the last game, after the poor first half, I thought the first drive of the 3rd quarter was REALLY important. On the play where Kirk had the ball knocked loose from him, had he had some mobility and just ran for a few yards on that play, it could have been the difference in the game. Kirk reminds of Romo a bit, where in many cases he does the team in, then comes back and puts up nice stats in the last half, which makes him look good. But the opposing team gets a little lax on defense, but tightens up when the Vikings get too close On the play you were referring to, he was blindsided by the Edge rusher after Oli Udoh turnstyled his protection. Cousins didn't know what hit him. Kirk had a full three seconds + on that play - enough time to bring the ball back down. Three whole seconds. That is nothing in the pocket. and it doesn't matter because he didn't see the hit coming. Let's blame this on Kirk. It's all Kirk's Fault. Not the pathetic attempt at blocking made by Oli Udoh. He barely put a hand on the guy. a QB should expect a second or two more than he got. He got NO protection on that play from Udoh He said three seconds +. No, a QB should not expect a second or two more. 4-5 seconds of time would be an incredible record. And it's no surprise Cousins was "blindsided". He doesn't have good pocket presence, even knowing he had a substitute tackle out there against a top DL.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 12:57:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall former Viking Kyle Rudolph was on Fox Sports Radio saying Vikings should consider trading Cousins to Jets. He said you can't afford to pay Jefferson over $30 million dollars a year and also have a top paid QB (If Vikings extended Cousins again). He mentioned KC trading away Hill when they had Mahomes. Perhaps the ball is in Cousin's court after the season, take a discount (NFL players seem to have too much pride for that, if they take a big pay cut they go somewhere else to do it). The Vikings front office is on the clock now, I think the honeymoon is over. I've mentioned trading him to the Jets as well. Seems now there's some rooting interest in it happening. Like Greenie. I'm not opposed to trading Cousins to the Jets, however, we've only played two games and are currently one game out of first place. IF the Jets call the Vikings about Cousins this week, how do you respond? Do you want the season to play out a few more games to see where you're at standings wise or do you pull the trigger to trade him and give up on the season hoping for a high draft pick? If you wait, does that mean the Jets will look elsewhere? Of course, the biggest unknown is whether the Jets have any interest in Cousins. and just what would they be willing to give up, to get him. would it be worth it for us? They did just trade a bunch of picks for another QB after all. Not that much. Basically two second rounders. The Packers agreed Monday to deal quarterback Aaron Rodgers and their 2023 first-round pick (No. 15) and a 2023 fifth-round pick (No. 170) to the Jets for New York's 2023 first-round pick (No. 13), a 2023 second-round pick (No. 42), a 2023 sixth-round pick (No. 207) and a conditional 2024 second-round pick that becomes a first if Rodgers plays 65% of the plays this season, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter on Monday. My point is they just gave up picks, they don't want to have to give up more and leave themselves without a draft next year. They built the defense on draft picks mostly. That team wont want to give up what we would want in pick compensation. And if they didn't give up much as you are insinuating for Rodgers, they woudl give up far less for Cousins. I don't think it would be worth it to trade him to the Jets. JMO I'm "insinuating" your insinuation that "They did just trade a bunch of picks" does not categorically prevent them from pulling the trigger on a trade. So what if they built their D on mostly draft picks. That didn't stop them from trading for Rodgers, because they really need a QB. With Rodgers injury the pick value changed so sure it NOW looks like they didn't give up much for Rodgers. Sure we'd get less. They won't offer much for a 80% of a season rental. I'd take a third but hopefully also a 2025 4th or better yet a promising player (not necessarily a starter).

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 1:03:16 PM)
Kirk Cousins trade to Jets would be bad news for Packers https://lombardiave.com/posts/packers-kirk-cousins-trade-jets-disaster-01hagfcm16x2 There are two major reasons why this trade would hurt the Packers. One is the 2024 draft pick they will receive from the Jets. Green Bay has already lost out on a first-round selection following Aaron Rodgers' season-ending injury. They will now receive New York's second-rounder. The more games the Jets lose, the better for the Packers. Cousins would give the Jets a significant upgrade on Zach Wilson. Despite the Vikings' record, Cousins has made a fast start to the season, throwing for 708 yards, six touchdowns, and one interception. With Cousins, the Jets would win a lot of games. Even more concerning is the potential long-term impact on the Vikings. While trading Cousins effectively waves the white flag for the current season, it could pay off huge for Minnesota in the years to come. Without Cousins, the Vikings become a realistic contender for a top-five draft pick. And, who knows, maybe they even end up with the No. 1 overall selection. Quarterback Caleb Williams is the top prospect in next year's draft. He has superstar potential in the NFL. In his past 17 games at USC, Williams has thrown for 5,415 yards, 54 touchdowns, and only five interceptions. The thought of Williams throwing to Justin Jefferson is scary. In an ideal world, the Vikings keep Cousins and win enough games to miss out on a top draft pick but not enough to make the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Jets struggle without Rodgers, landing the Packers a top-10 pick in the second round of the draft.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 1:11:19 PM)
A review of the sack/fumble play from the Tampa game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogIm4kvOX-o

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 2:15:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens I have serious doubts about Ingram's upside. If anything he has regressed in year two. Risner is also a better pass blocker than Cleveland. I don't where the Vikings are going to pick up a stud center at this point, but Risner would be a significant upgrade over Ingram. if i'm o'connell i'm not caring about run blocking...go with 3 wr's and one te and one running back, or 4 wr's and no running back...throw the ball 80% of the time...the holes/space for the rb will be there with the field spread out.... get the best pass-blocking interior linemen you can find.... here's what's available: DT michael brockers akiem hicks Chris warmley ndamukong suh Linval joseph GUARD Justin Pugh Gabe Jackson Rodger scaffold A.J. cann Dalton riser CENTER Chase roller Rodney Hudson Ben jones Justin britt The weird thing in the NFL is how fast players decline......I almost would rather grab a young UDFA because a lot of them on the list are just band aids for a year or two if they have anything left.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 2:20:42 PM)
They had a list of players that left after this year (replying to those posters that say a full rebuild is in order): Peterson Kendricks Thielen Zed Cook Tomlinson 6 Starters let go or not resigned. Next year: Cousins? Smith? Hunter? 3 more starters let go or not resigned.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 2:26:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: marty As much as Kirk put up some nice stats in the last game, after the poor first half, I thought the first drive of the 3rd quarter was REALLY important. On the play where Kirk had the ball knocked loose from him, had he had some mobility and just ran for a few yards on that play, it could have been the difference in the game. Kirk reminds of Romo a bit, where in many cases he does the team in, then comes back and puts up nice stats in the last half, which makes him look good. But the opposing team gets a little lax on defense, but tightens up when the Vikings get too close On the play you were referring to, he was blindsided by the Edge rusher after Oli Udoh turnstyled his protection. Cousins didn't know what hit him. Kirk had a full three seconds + on that play - enough time to bring the ball back down. Three whole seconds. That is nothing in the pocket. and it doesn't matter because he didn't see the hit coming. Let's blame this on Kirk. It's all Kirk's Fault. Not the pathetic attempt at blocking made by Oli Udoh. He barely put a hand on the guy. a QB should expect a second or two more than he got. He got NO protection on that play from Udoh He said three seconds +. No, a QB should not expect a second or two more. 4-5 seconds of time would be an incredible record. And it's no surprise Cousins was "blindsided". He doesn't have good pocket presence, even knowing he had a substitute tackle out there against a top DL. every time I see cousins get rid of the ball, i.e., throw it away, i'm shocked - the man has no feel for the pocket, or time.... for kirko, 3+ seconds is way too long to be still holding that ball out for someone to slap away....

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 2:34:04 PM)
I guess another reason for KFC not moving would be his ability to stat build here in preparation for hitting free agency in six months.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 2:57:51 PM)
Stat building sounds like something a dishonest person would do to try to gain more money or be in it only for personal gain and not necessarily care about winning.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 3:12:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Stat building sounds like something a dishonest person would do to try to gain more money or be in it only for personal gain and not necessarily care about winning. Stat building allows backers of said stat builder to proclaim how wonderful the player is while having just one playoff victory in eleven seasons, and said stats certainly factor into contract negotiations.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 3:56:30 PM)
Ian Rappaport is reporting that the Vikes are signing Dalton Risner.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 4:05:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Ian Rappaport is reporting that the Vikes are signing Dalton Risner. Finally, someone to replace Cleveland! [:D]

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 4:17:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Ian Rappaport is reporting that the Vikes are signing Dalton Risner. 1-year/$4M deal with $2.5M guaranteed, per source.

kevinemmer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 4:28:59 PM)
Yay! About damn time. Now get Hicks.

The Happy Norseman -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 4:34:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Ian Rappaport is reporting that the Vikes are signing Dalton Risner. 1-year/$4M deal with $2.5M guaranteed, per source. I'm guessing Risner plays LG and Cleveland gets kicked over to RG. Ingram (thankfully) to the bench. 2022 is going down as one of the worst drafts in Vikings history. A 1st and 2 second round picks that can't get on the field. The rest of the draft class who are still on the team are question marks.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 4:43:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Ian Rappaport is reporting that the Vikes are signing Dalton Risner. Finally, someone to replace Cleveland! [:D] Honestly, that's a distinct possibility. If Darrisow isn't ready to go, they probably kick Ezra out to LT and Risner and Ingram are our Guards.

kevinemmer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 4:53:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Ian Rappaport is reporting that the Vikes are signing Dalton Risner. Finally, someone to replace Cleveland! [:D] Honestly, that's a distinct possibility. If Darrisow isn't ready to go, they probably kick Ezra out to LT and Risner and Ingram are our Guards. Oooph, I hope not. Rather see Quizz at RT/ moving O'Neill to LT Risner replacing Ingram, but Ezra at RG/ Risner at LG

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/18/2023 4:55:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kevinemmer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Ian Rappaport is reporting that the Vikes are signing Dalton Risner. Finally, someone to replace Cleveland! [:D] Honestly, that's a distinct possibility. If Darrisow isn't ready to go, they probably kick Ezra out to LT and Risner and Ingram are our Guards. Oooph, I hope not. Rather see Quizz at RT/ moving O'Neill to LT Risner replacing Ingram, but Ezra at RG/ Risner at LG So four OL moves? As long as Schlottmann is snapping to Hall.

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