RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (Full Version)

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djskillz -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 2:28:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Duane Sampson

Specter Wants Walsh Letters Released
Sun Mar 9, 2008

ESPN reports Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter isn't buying what Roger Goodell is selling when it comes to how the NFL commissioner is handling the SpyGate controversy. The Republican Senator, according to a published report, doesn't think the NFL really wants to speak to former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh. To prove the NFL is being genuine, Specter wants Goodell to release letters exchanged between the league and Walsh's attorneys, The New York Times reported. "I'd like to issue a challenge to the commissioner to make public the extensive exchange of correspondence between the league's lawyers and Walsh's lawyers," Specter told the newspaper. Specter took issue with how any potential new evidence would be handled in the case. "Any objective or accurate reading of the correspondence would show the NFL is trying to discourage Walsh from coming forward," Specter said. "Especially the requirement in the letter, where the NFL calls for the destruction of whatever Walsh turns over without any provision for me or anyone else to see it."


I say again; doesn't our congress have more pressing issues right now?

We're in the middle of a war, our deficit is still high, our education system is failing, and social security is going broke, and they're discussing "cheating" in football?

Seriously?



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 2:47:43 PM)

Well, the Wisconsin general assembly recently took some time to vote on which tartan pattern is going to be the Official Wisconsin Tartan.

Seems ridiculous.



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 6:46:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JamieH

As soon as this story came out I said that the Patriots should lose draft picks and Bellicheck should get suspended and the Patriots should lose draft picks. It has to be big, cause this is bad. I say Bellicheck suspended 8 games and they lose a 1st and a 2nd. That will send a message. Plus, they have no access to any video for 8 games other than standard TV video.


Then they better do it to each and every team in the league.  Jimmy Johnson has all ready come out publicly and said he used to do it with the Cowboys.....

Anyone who thinks that this was only the Pats is crazy!  Every team in the NFL looks for an advantage.  Im willing to bet BB was doing this under the Tuna in NY.  BB won't out the Tuna though unlike Mangitis with the Jets!

Its a league wide problem......Not a Patriots only problem!



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 7:43:58 PM)

Ed,

I think the key is that the Patriots continued to do it this past season, even after a very specific warning was issued by the commissioner at the start of the season.  If 32 teams were doing it in the past but they all stopped when the word came out, and only the Patriots were idiots enough to continue the practice - - - then I think they deserve every single bit of punishment that the league can hand out.



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 7:45:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

Ed,

I think the key is that the Patriots continued to do it this past season, even after a very specific warning was issued by the commissioner at the start of the season.  If 32 teams were doing it in the past but they all stopped when the word came out, and only the Patriots were idiots enough to continue the practice - - - then I think they deserve every single bit of punishment that the league can hand out.


You have concrete proof they were the only ones doing it then?  Well if thats the case, I stand corrected...Disband the franchise! 

Oops, maybe Im a Patriots apologist!



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 7:48:20 PM)

They were the only ones caught, and considering that there was a very specific directive handed down from Goodell at the beginning of the season, I'm betting that 31 other teams all had the good sense to at least hold off for a while.  Maybe they thought they'd start up again quietly somewhere down the line, but Belichik has an ego the size of Manhattan and figured he was above the rules.  That's when people usually get caught.

And once he was caught, it was a pretty solid warning against anyone else starting up again.



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 7:53:40 PM)

But, the fact remains that many people have come out and said that this was a practice that has been going on for years in the NFL.  the Pats got caught and they were punished for being caught.  now people are chomping at the bit to take away everything from them....Stats, Super Bowls etc...My point is....There were a lot more teams doing it prior to this year.  If this was the "warning" year and the Pats were caught and punished...the rest of it is inconsequential in my mind.  If they are going to go back any further then they better bring every stinkin team into it as well.  And those people saying they were also doing it ala Jimmy Johnson need to be held accountable too.  Lets not hang this on one team and one team only.  thats all I am saying!  make EVERYONE accountable! Don't scapegoat one team if everyone was doing it.



Todd M -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 7:58:52 PM)

I'm thinking 25% did it - maybe.

It's too much to say they were all doing it.




Lynn G. -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:01:38 PM)

Well Ed - the league seemed satisfied to use Mike Tice as the scapegoat for Superbowl tickets even though many out there claimed that every team did it.  I never saw this much plea from anyone here to indict someone on every other team.  Tice took the scapegoat punishment and that pretty much ended it.

Belichik doesn't deserve any special treatment.  You're caught, you pay a price.



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:03:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd Mallett

I'm thinking 25% did it - maybe.

It's too much to say they were all doing it.




I agree - no way were they ALL doing it.  We may never know the correct numbers.



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:04:58 PM)

Im just going off what Jimmy Johnson was saying.....Ive read others talking about how it was a common practice as well but their names illude me at the moment.

Even if it was 25% then lets get those 25% and hold them just as accountable!  Thats all I am saying.  I do not condone it and don't want it in any sport.  But if we are going to make one team pay....make them ALL pay!  Thats all Im saying!




Easy E -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:06:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Marotske

But, the fact remains that many people have come out and said that this was a practice that has been going on for years in the NFL.  the Pats got caught and they were punished for being caught.  now people are chomping at the bit to take away everything from them....Stats, Super Bowls etc...My point is....There were a lot more teams doing it prior to this year.  If this was the "warning" year and the Pats were caught and punished...the rest of it is inconsequential in my mind.  If they are going to go back any further then they better bring every stinkin team into it as well.  And those people saying they were also doing it ala Jimmy Johnson need to be held accountable too.  Lets not hang this on one team and one team only.  thats all I am saying!  make EVERYONE accountable! Don't scapegoat one team if everyone was doing it.



Only hold the loser cheats that did it, that either have proof, like the lame patriots, or the ones who admit it, like Jimmy Johnson. I am not suprised that the Cowboys would be involved in cheating, not at all.

This isn't about people trying to get signals, that's just what the pathetic patriots would like it to be about. This is about defying the league, and keeping up doing something that was explicityly forbidden. Arrogant jerk teams like the Cowpukes and Patsies think they're better than the rest of the league, and i'm amazed at all their apologists. You'd think we'd want a level playing field, instead of making excuses for cheaters.



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:08:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Marotske

But, the fact remains that many people have come out and said that this was a practice that has been going on for years in the NFL.  the Pats got caught and they were punished for being caught.  now people are chomping at the bit to take away everything from them....Stats, Super Bowls etc...My point is....There were a lot more teams doing it prior to this year.  If this was the "warning" year and the Pats were caught and punished...the rest of it is inconsequential in my mind.  If they are going to go back any further then they better bring every stinkin team into it as well.  And those people saying they were also doing it ala Jimmy Johnson need to be held accountable too.  Lets not hang this on one team and one team only.  thats all I am saying!  make EVERYONE accountable! Don't scapegoat one team if everyone was doing it.



Only hold the loser cheats that did it, that either have proof, like the lame patriots, or the ones who admit it, like Jimmy Johnson. I am not suprised that the Cowboys would be involved in cheating, not at all.

This isn't about people trying to get signals, that's just what the pathetic patriots would like it to be about. This is about defying the league, and keeping up doing something that was explicityly forbidden. Arrogant jerk teams like the Cowpukes and Patsies think they're better than the rest of the league, and i'm amazed at all their apologists. You'd think we'd want a level playing field, instead of making excuses for cheaters.


So if they dig deeper....they find out all teams involved and our beloved Vikings are found out...then what?



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:09:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

Well Ed - the league seemed satisfied to use Mike Tice as the scapegoat for Superbowl tickets even though many out there claimed that every team did it.  I never saw this much plea from anyone here to indict someone on every other team.  Tice took the scapegoat punishment and that pretty much ended it.

Belichik doesn't deserve any special treatment.  You're caught, you pay a price.


I said as much about Tice.  I didn't think he should have been the scapegoat for the league either and its unfortunate!  But I think their is a fundamental difference between scalping some Super Bowl tickets and what we are discussing here.



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:11:22 PM)

Only hold the loser cheats that did it, that either have proof, like the lame patriots, or the ones who admit it, like Jimmy Johnson. I am not suprised that the Cowboys would be involved in cheating, not at all.


And there you have it......Loser Cheats that did it.....So when a credible former NFL coach comes out and says it was a common practice in the NFL.....why wouldn't we think its more than just 25%?



Easy E -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:12:25 PM)

Same thing as baseball.

This is why they say one bad apple spoils the bunch. What we know is that the league determined there might be a cheating problem going on. They then told teams they would really crack down on it... and Bill B is such an arrogant jerk that he ignored it an did it anyway. He needs to be severly punished. Period. No excuses, no trying to throw the rest of the league under the bus.

This is no different than Roger Clemens.

If they can find other teams that are as eggregious as Bill and the cheating pats, punish them harshly too. But stop using it as a diversion from Bill B.



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:13:55 PM)

I was under the impression that Bill B and the Pats were punished....quite handily as I recall.



Easy E -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:15:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Marotske

Only hold the loser cheats that did it, that either have proof, like the lame patriots, or the ones who admit it, like Jimmy Johnson. I am not suprised that the Cowboys would be involved in cheating, not at all.


And there you have it......Loser Cheats that did it.....So when a credible former NFL coach comes out and says it was a common practice in the NFL.....why wouldn't we think its more than just 25%?


And what's your solution? Because you seem to be saying look the other way.

Do you think anything at all should happen? Letting someone off because you think others might have done the same thing is a horrid message. If they find others doing the same thing, punish them too.

Of just chalk it all up to the NFL being a joke, I suppose. 100% of them are not worth watching?



Easy E -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:17:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Marotske

I was under the impression that Bill B and the Pats were punished....quite handily as I recall.


For one infraction... and they were told that if they held back anything, one single piece of info, they would be hammered even harder. Right? Do you think if they did, they should be punished more?



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:19:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Same thing as baseball.

This is why they say one bad apple spoils the bunch. What we know is that the league determined there might be a cheating problem going on. They then told teams they would really crack down on it... and Bill B is such an arrogant jerk that he ignored it an did it anyway. He needs to be severly punished. Period. No excuses, no trying to throw the rest of the league under the bus.

This is no different than Roger Clemens.

If they can find other teams that are as eggregious as Bill and the cheating pats, punish them harshly too. But stop using it as a diversion from Bill B.



See easy, I can't agree because I don't think you can NOT throw the league under the bus if its happening league wide.  If the Giants used a system like that to beat the Vikes 41-0 shouldn't they be punished?  Should the falcons not be punished because if they used it...they never were really any good anyway?  Thats a double standard in my book.

In baseball, if you cheated you should be dealt with...so deal with it.  Unfortunately Im thinking that major League baseball knew these players currently being outted were doing what they are doing....Baseball and steriods is a completely diffrerent animal to spy gate.  And for the record...bobby Thompson knew what pitch was coming when he hit the short heard around the world....it was signaled to him....Stop the presses, replay the game...the Giants cheated to win the pennent!



Easy E -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:19:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Marotske

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Marotske

But, the fact remains that many people have come out and said that this was a practice that has been going on for years in the NFL.  the Pats got caught and they were punished for being caught.  now people are chomping at the bit to take away everything from them....Stats, Super Bowls etc...My point is....There were a lot more teams doing it prior to this year.  If this was the "warning" year and the Pats were caught and punished...the rest of it is inconsequential in my mind.  If they are going to go back any further then they better bring every stinkin team into it as well.  And those people saying they were also doing it ala Jimmy Johnson need to be held accountable too.  Lets not hang this on one team and one team only.  thats all I am saying!  make EVERYONE accountable! Don't scapegoat one team if everyone was doing it.



Only hold the loser cheats that did it, that either have proof, like the lame patriots, or the ones who admit it, like Jimmy Johnson. I am not suprised that the Cowboys would be involved in cheating, not at all.

This isn't about people trying to get signals, that's just what the pathetic patriots would like it to be about. This is about defying the league, and keeping up doing something that was explicityly forbidden. Arrogant jerk teams like the Cowpukes and Patsies think they're better than the rest of the league, and i'm amazed at all their apologists. You'd think we'd want a level playing field, instead of making excuses for cheaters.


So if they dig deeper....they find out all teams involved and our beloved Vikings are found out...then what?


Any team that cheated in the way Bill did, after teams were told of the new severity and the league's crackdown on it, should have a 1st round pick and a big fine. Just like the patriots.

Any coach that is given a one time chance to come clean, and still lies about it, should be banned for one year, minimum.

Childress included.



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:19:46 PM)

As Eric said, Bill B. and the Patriots WERE punished for the "crime" they were caught doing.

Now more information has come out about an additional "crime" so a new investigation might result in further punishment. 



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:21:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed_Marotske

I was under the impression that Bill B and the Pats were punished....quite handily as I recall.


For one infraction... and they were told that if they held back anything, one single piece of info, they would be hammered even harder. Right? Do you think if they did, they should be punished more?


I think everything should be brought to the table....Every team needs to be scrutinized, not just one.  Its obvious "cheating" has been going on for a long time in the NFL.  Blanket the league as a whole...not just one organization!

If there are people who no longer are in the league saying it was going on when they were...that has to be investigated.  its bigger than the Patriots so deal with it on a bigger scale!  Thats all Im saying!



Guest -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:24:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

As Eric said, Bill B. and the Patriots WERE punished for the "crime" they were caught doing.

Now more information has come out about an additional "crime" so a new investigation might result in further punishment. 


So they are going to investigate all 32 teams????



Easy E -> RE: RE:Those Lying Cheating Pats (3/9/2008 8:25:05 PM)

Going back in time, you can't tie up everything.

What you can do, is stick to the deals you make, and the deal was, from about a year and a half ago, teams were put on notice to knock the cheating off, because it was damaging the integrity of the game.

Any team that chose to ignore that, and continue to do it, must be dealt with harshly.

"Let the cheaters cheat" is not a message I can get behind. Making the issue so big that you can't do anything about it is just a cop out. Can the NFL go back in time and fix every instance? No.

Can they stick to their word now? They can and they should.

And the idea that NFL games are decided not by the play on the field, but by how good a spy system Bill B, or whoever is next, can come up with, is a big deal.



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