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Karl Juhnke -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 3:00:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgdavis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgdavis

From what I've read, this strikes me as the actions of an administration trying to maintain a half-assed appearance of political correctness by throwing several student athletes under the bus. By punishing these players that were determined to be clear of any criminal issues, the U officials are effectively declaring that they think they are above the law. The timing of it is also odd - why not wait until after the bowl game to deal with this? I think the students have a legitimate beef here, and the support from Winfield and other parents will likely embolden their position.

This could end up as a no win situation for either side. If the administration backs down, they look weak and would be seen as knuckling under to student demands, possibly inviting further pressures in the future. If the players back down, they end up looking weak and potentially splintered, possibly leading to further bad blood between players and/or coaches in the future. This is also likely to be a major blackeye for the university with respect to retaining current players and recruiting future players. Would you want to play for a school that pulls this crap?

As for the potential boycott of the bowl, has a team ever done that before? There would likely be huge financial losses for the venue, lost TV coverage, hotels, etc. How would they handle ticket refunds? Hotel refunds? Would the U have to pay a fine?


I agree with much of your post, but don't agree with the bolded part. It's not a matter of being above the law. There's law and then there's university and team policies. If a player goes up to a coach and screams "Screw you, you big jerk. I don't feel like practicing today." He has broken no law. But don't bet on that player playing any time soon. He violated team policy and is being punished for it.

Part of the problem is that U has not been very forthcoming with details that explain why these individuals are being punished. The U has the right to lay down it's own penalties for violations of conduct, etc. But without disclosing how or what happened or which policies were violated, it raises concerns over fairness and consistency in how the rules are being enforced. It also sets a precedent that any students accused of certain types of behaviors will automatically be assumed guilty with little to no recourse and punished as such, even if police investigations find no evidence of wrong-doing.


On that we agree 100%. I've said basically the same thing. The U has completely bungled the handling of this.




TJSweens -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 3:08:58 PM)

Keep in mind that privacy laws prohibit the U from releasing the details of any student's record. That includes why they are suspended or expelled. They would be subject to litigation if they did.




Karl Juhnke -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 4:17:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Keep in mind that privacy laws prohibit the U from releasing the details of any student's record. That includes why they are suspended or expelled. They would be subject to litigation if they did.


But have they even told the players? It seems like they're just making it up as they go along.




Karl Juhnke -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 4:23:24 PM)

Tracy Claeys' tweet has likely sealed that he's coached his last football game at the U.


quote:

Have never been more proud of our kids. I respect their rights & support their effort to make a better world!


Regardless of whether this has been mishandled, Claeys is a person of authority at the University of Minnesota. When he openly defies them and shows support for the dissenters, he kind of forces their hand.

Plus...'to make a better world?' Laying it on a bit thick there coach. Might want to ease up on that talk.




Karl Juhnke -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 4:26:03 PM)

It wouldn't surprise me if the U took the nuclear option. Cancel the bowl game. Fire the coach. Tell players we'll see you at spring practice or else don't let the door hit you on the way out.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 4:45:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Tracy Claeys' tweet has likely sealed that he's coached his last football game at the U.


quote:

Have never been more proud of our kids. I respect their rights & support their effort to make a better world!


Regardless of whether this has been mishandled, Claeys is a person of authority at the University of Minnesota. When he openly defies them and shows support for the dissenters, he kind of forces their hand.

Plus...'to make a better world?' Laying it on a bit thick there coach. Might want to ease up on that talk.



And multiple people rightfully ripped him on Twitter for that statement.

Rein the horn-dogs in coach. Nice going [&o]




Bill Jandro -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 5:54:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

This is a real sticky situation. I believe the university brought this entirely on itself by the bungled handling of this incident. It's exactly what I was talking about earlier about not being forthcoming in properly explaining their actions. The team thought the issue had long been settled. Now this new punishment comes down, without warning or explanation. They stonewall it, show no transparency, just announce a bunch of punishments and say trust us it's justified...just because we say so.

Not that I'm siding with the players walkout either. Now they are trying to do the exact same thing the U did. Take matters into their own hands. Wanting the players re-instated with no explanation or due process.

The U is stuck between a rock and hard place now. Damned if they give in to the players and set a terrible precedent, damned if they don't give in creating the biggest mess is Minnesota athletic history...and that's saying something.


Did expect anything less?

Whomever hires these boneheads that have ran this U the last 40 years should be taken behind the wood shed.




David Levine -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 6:08:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

It wouldn't surprise me if the U took the nuclear option. Cancel the bowl game. Fire the coach. Tell players we'll see you at spring practice or else don't let the door hit you on the way out.


Its really the only option at this point.




David Levine -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 6:10:12 PM)

A lot of really good info in here. And surprisingly a lot of level-headed commenting as well:

http://www.thedailygopher.com/2016/12/16/13981906/minnesota-football-title-ix-investigation-boycott-understanding-the-process




twinsfan -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 6:21:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

A lot of really good info in here. And surprisingly a lot of level-headed commenting as well:

http://www.thedailygopher.com/2016/12/16/13981906/minnesota-football-title-ix-investigation-boycott-understanding-the-process

Kind of a dull read. But informative.




stfrank -> RE: Gopher Football (12/16/2016 7:04:17 PM)

They showed Antoine Winfield Sr. on the news this evening and he sounded pretty pissed that the nobody at the U would talk to him about his son's involvement in this whole mess. He flew up here so he could knock on their doors and get some answers in person and still nobody will talk. A real wonderful group of people running the U these days. Any wonder why these kids behave the way they do with role models like them.......




Bill Jandro -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 8:05:18 AM)

Minnesota unlikely to play in Holiday Bowl amid boycott, prez firm on suspensions

Update: A "late-night summit" between some Minnesota players and school officials did not provide any indication that the players' boycott of football activities would end in time for the Gophers to play in the upcoming Holiday Bowl, according to the Star Tribune. Joe Christensen reports that the school must "decide by noon Saturday" whether it will play in the game or force the bowl to choose a replacement team to face Washington State on Dec. 27 in San Diego.
Minnesota players were joined by school president Eric Kaler (who was not initially invited), athletic director Mark Coyle and other school leaders in a meeting on campus, according to Christensen.




lylej -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 8:57:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

It wouldn't surprise me if the U took the nuclear option. Cancel the bowl game. Fire the coach. Tell players we'll see you at spring practice or else don't let the door hit you on the way out.


Its really the only option at this point.


Absolutely!




Bill Jandro -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 9:05:56 AM)

May as well change the name to Grease Fire U

No athlete worth his salt will want to come here. we will continue to get the troublemakers that no one else wants and the cycle will continue.




lylej -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 9:09:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

May as well change the name to Grease Fire U

No athlete worth his salt will want to come here. we will continue to get the troublemakers that no one else wants and the cycle will continue.


AMEN!




lylej -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 9:21:08 AM)

This Minnesota ordeal has, like, zero chance of ending well at all.
In all of it, though, let’s all please remember that there is a potential sexual assault victim embroiled in all of this.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 10:44:12 AM)

Wolitarsky on ending the boycott


Let me first state so there is no misperception: sexual harassment and
violence against women have no place on this campus, on our team, in our
society, and at no time is it ever condoned. We recognize that there is a
legal threshold and there is a moral threshold and a standard of values set
forth by this university. There is only one acceptable way to treat all women
and all men, and that is with the utmost of respect at all times.
On Tuesday, we along with everyone else, learned of the suspension of 10
of our teammates. Five of them had been previously suspended for an
incident where they were not charged with any crime. We are not here to
judge nor defend their actions – that is for the authorities. We also learned
that five additional teammates were indefinitely suspended. We had
questions, and still do not understand how such severe consequences
could be vetted out without proper due process.
We were disappointed at the lack of communication from the administration
and their unwillingness to share information about their decision, under the
cover of student privacy. We also understand that they have requirements
that they need to follow about sharing information. Yet at the same time, we
observed how our teammates’ names and pictures were shared with the
world, and reputations ruined.
We stated that we were going to boycott all football activities until our 10
teammates had their suspensions lifted. We also had a larger goal and that
was to have an open discussion about the lack of due process that occurs
when an accusation is made against anyone.
After many hours of discussion within our team, and after speaking with
President Kaler, it became clear that our original request of having the 10
suspensions overturned was not going to happen.
Our senior group had a meeting with President Kaler and AD Mark Coyle
last night, Friday the 16th, where they agreed to the following requests:
That all ten of these players have a fair hearing -- which includes a diverse
review panel. Number two, a showing of support for our team and the
character shown by the great majority of our players. Finally, that we as a
team will use our status as public figures to bring more exposure to the
issue of sexual harassment and violence against women. We will have
more details on our plans for that at a later time.
Therefore, we would like to announce that we are ending our boycott and
will immediately begin preparations for playing in the Holiday Bowl. As a
team, we understand that what has occurred these past few days, and
playing football for the University of Minnesota, is larger than just us. So
many before us have given so much to this University and this football
team; so many coaches, staff, administrators, professors, alumni, fans, and
our community have invested heavily in the success of our program. We
will not...and we recognize that we must not, let these people down.
We now ask that you, the members of the media, our fans, and the general
public hold all of us accountable for ensuring that our teammates are
treated fairly, along with any and all victims of sexual assault. We also ask
that the public dialogue related to the apparent lack of due process in a
university system is openly discussed and evaluated.
As football players, we know that we represent this University and this state
and that we are held to a higher standard. We want to express our deepest
gratitude to our coaching staff and so many others for their support during
this difficult time, and we hope that our fans and community understand
why we took the actions that we did.
Our thoughts and prayers are for the well-being of the woman involved in
the original incident, and for our 10 teammates to ensure that they are
treated fairly. We look forward to representing the University of Minnesota
and the state of Minnesota in the Holiday Bowl in a way that makes all of
you proud.




twinsfan -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 3:01:34 PM)

Glad the players came to their senses. Not sure Claeys survives this. But my hunch is he will.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Gopher Football (12/17/2016 9:18:37 PM)

At 1:30 a.m. Saturday, the Gophers were ready to end their boycott of University of Minnesota football. In two hours in the middle of the night, their resolve to remove themselves from the playing field in protest had fallen apart.

A group text went out: “Players-only meeting 6 a.m.” Many of them didn’t sleep.

At 9 a.m., bleary-eyed and exhausted, the Gophers’ senior leaders walked back into a campus building and announced they were lifting the boycott.

“As a team, we understand that what has occurred these past few days, and playing football for the University of Minnesota, is larger than just us,” senior receiver Drew Wolitarsky said, reading from a two-page, typed statement.

As he read those words, the Gophers stopped just hours short from becoming the first college football team to back out of a bowl game in protest. That did not happen, several sources told the Star Tribune on Saturday, because the painful details of an 80-page report from an investigation of an alleged sexual assault — revealed to most players for the first time late Friday — broke the boycott’s resolve.

Saturday morning’s announcement was a dramatic reversal from Friday night. Shortly after 9 p.m., most players exited the football facility along snow-clogged 15th Avenue, defiant and convinced the bowl boycott would stand.

After some productive and volatile meetings with university President Eric Kaler, the Gophers players knew he wouldn’t meet their demand to lift the 10 player suspensions that stemmed from an alleged Sept. 2 sexual assault and investigation. They were staring down a Saturday deadline to follow through on backing out of the Dec. 27 Holiday Bowl in San Diego.

But Wolitarsky, Gaelin Elmore, Mitch Leidner and the rest of the seniors remained cloistered inside, contemplating alternatives, thinking about a “game-changing” 80-page university investigation report on the incident that most of them had just read for the first time.

‘Narrative’ changes

The university’s Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action report came into wide public view Friday afternoon when it was first obtained and published by KSTP-TV. The report described in deep detail how a female student and more than 10 men were involved in an incident in the early morning of Sept. 2, hours after the Gophers’ first game of the season.

The EOAA report, the result of the school’s federally mandated investigation of the alleged sexual assault, was not seen by a vast majority of the players until Friday evening, sources said.

Sources said the release of the report and the players getting a chance to read the results of the investigation were the biggest factors in the decision to end the boycott. “Once they read the report,” one source said, the “narrative” of the boycott changed.

When the players launched their boycott, they signaled their anger at Kaler and athletic director Mark Coyle for not being more forthcoming with the reasons the 10 players had been suspended.

The EOAA recommended expulsion for Ray Buford, Carlton Djam, KiAnte Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson; one-year suspensions from the university for Seth Green, Kobe McCrary, Mark Williams and Antoine Winfield Jr., and probation for Antonio Shenault.

Lee Hutton, the attorney for all 10 players, has already filed their appeals.

According to sources, the seniors tried getting Kaler to lift the penalties for Green, McCrary, Williams, Winfield and Shenault.

Late Friday night, the seniors felt like they were getting close to a compromise on that issue, but it was shot down in a vote before the whole team, sources said.

With the team at an impasse, one of the 10 suspended players spoke up in a meeting. According to one source, the suspended player said, “We appreciate all of you for standing up for us, and we still feel like we’ve been wronged [by the university]. But we don’t want 102 [players] to take the fall for us five.”

The motivation to end the boycott grew. Clarity had come for many in the form of the EOAA report, and player support to end the boycott put in motion a change in plans. Many players stayed up, the dialogue continued and they gathered for a Saturday team meeting before dawn.

A vote occurred, sources told the Star Tribune, leading to Saturday morning’s announcement.

Man in the middle

At the announcement, Wolitarsky again found himself at center stage, as a handful of Gophers representing their teammates faced media members who had scrambled through the Saturday morning snow piles to get to campus.

Before the players launched their boycott, they elected Wolitarsky as their spokesman. Besides being their leading receiver, he’s also wrapping up his English degree.

“You will have to bear with us,” Wolitarsky said Saturday. “We’ve been up for 30-plus hours — lot of caffeine.”

Wolitarsky also had read the team’s original boycott announcement Thursday evening, and he drew much of the national criticism from those who felt the players were condoning sexual violence.

According to people close to the situation, Wolitarsky was shaken by the criticism, stressed and crying at times. He was especially torn after reading the 80-page report.

“I learned a lot from these past couple days,” Wolitarsky said. “There are no right choices. There are no decisions that do not affect somebody else. This process has been extremely difficult, and I’m sure you all know how stressful this has been for everybody involved.”

By Saturday, in words Wolitarsky had used his writing touch to shape, he made clear how the players feel about sexual violence.

“Let me first state so there is no misperception: sexual harassment and violence against women have no place on this campus, on our team, in our society and at no time is it ever condoned,” he said. “There is only one acceptable way to treat all women and all men, and that is with the utmost respect at all times.”

Leadership issue

The players took biggest issue with “due process” and “communication.”

“We’re disappointed at the lack of communication” on the part of school leaders, Wolitarsky said, reading from the players’ statement.

“After many hours of discussion within our team, and after speaking with President Kaler, it became clear that our original request of having the 10 suspensions overturned was not going to happen,” the statement read.

Kaler followed the players’ announcement, saying he was pleased with the players’ decision to drop the boycott, as well as their spoken stance against sexual violence.

“I think the statement by the students today around support for victims of sexual assault is important,” Kaler said. “I will continue to amplify the fact that the football team action was in support of their teammates, it was not in support of sexual violence.”

Coyle added: “This is an educational moment. The great thing about college campuses is you can have different opinions and can express those opinions. But you have to be respectful during that process. This was a learning experience for all of us.”




Brad H -> RE: Gopher Football (12/18/2016 9:06:02 AM)

In about 10 days they will wish they had never decided to play. I see Washington State running up the score on those bums.




stfrank -> RE: Gopher Football (12/18/2016 9:59:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

In about 10 days they will wish they had never decided to play. I see Washington State running up the score on those bums.


Probably, but they have to go since this is most likely the last bowl game for this program in many years......




Brad H -> RE: Gopher Football (12/18/2016 10:48:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

In about 10 days they will wish they had never decided to play. I see Washington State running up the score on those bums.


Probably, but they have to go since this is most likely the last bowl game for this program in many years......

Any program that would willingly choose to start Mitch Liedner at quarterback for 3.5 years should be charged with a lack of institutional control.




Karl Juhnke -> RE: Gopher Football (12/18/2016 4:17:49 PM)

In the end the players realized they were in way over their heads.

After reviewing the whole thing more as it went along, I sided more and more with U administration on this one. They were required to do their own investigation separate from a legal investigation. Otherwise they stand to lose millions of federal dollars. Unlike a criminal investigation where reasonable doubt and innocent until proven guilty are the standards, the university only requires a preponderance of evidence to take action. In other words, was it more likely that an assault occurred or not. If it's just 51% likely, that's enough.

I think the odds that a very intoxicated woman gave consent to a lineup of 10 football players to take turns with her are significantly less than that, to say the least.

I'm guessing that once this was explained to them, and once they actually read the report, and once they realized there was simply no way the university could possibly give in to them, and they heard their girlfriends and half the campus telling them what the hell are you doing standing up for a bunch of rapists, they decided maybe this wasn't a fight they should be fighting.

I will still fault the university on the apparent lack of communication though. The players understandably assumed they had put this behind them, then it felt like they were being punished all over again. The knee jerk reaction was "That's bullshit man, we should totally boycott!".

Then reality set in.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Gopher Football (12/18/2016 4:21:06 PM)

What a rallying cry! Go team [:o]




SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Football (12/18/2016 8:17:53 PM)

Sooooo....... Jerry Kill to be the new OC at Rutgers

We get lied to a lot around here, don't we?




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