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John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/29/2009 8:51:56 PM)

Eagles' Jim Johnson fighting cancer

A great coach and a great man faces a hell of a battle

Bob Ford: Take it from someone who has listened carefully to Jim Johnson, who has enjoyed a few hallway laughs with him and who has admired his steadfast belief in how the game should be played. He's going to fight this battle aggressively, which is the only way he knows.

SHAME!



Tim Cady -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/29/2009 9:16:04 PM)

[:@]

Hate to hear stuff like this.



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/29/2009 9:32:19 PM)

He is a good man also.

Much was made in Philly about him sitting in the press box during the playoffs and now we know why.  Too bad they couldn't get that last drive done for him.  Apparently his is very dangerous.

It makes me sad



marty -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/29/2009 9:38:09 PM)

I'm not sure Dungy would EVER have won a SB in TB.  Gruden energized that team, worked tirelessly to get it over the hump.

I think Dungy is a nice guy, but is over-rated.  I don't think he's competitive enough to win multiple SBs, and I also think that is why his teams' choked off so many playoff games.  The only year he DID win a SB the refs cheated NE or Dungy probably NEVER would have won a SB. 

Dungy is a nice, classy guy, not the type that usually wins SBs.  The ones that usually win are competitive jerks that are sometimes arrogant.  Maybe you have to think you're better than other people, and then have to set out to PROVE that it's true ?   



Easy E -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 9:33:25 AM)

How many titles did the ultra aggressive jerk Chuckie win with his own team? None.

Dungy has just as many rings, he doesn't have to be an asshole and tear a team apart to win just as much as the jerks.



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 10:30:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

How many titles did the ultra aggressive jerk Chuckie win with his own team? None.

Dungy has just as many rings, he doesn't have to be an asshole and tear a team apart to win just as much as the jerks.


BINGO

I would also add that Gruden's style left his team in worse shape right now than the Colts are in.

Gruden is so overrated in my book - part of that is because he was a terrible OC in Philly.



So.Mn.Fan -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 10:47:58 AM)

And I'll still take him in a heartbeat over what we have.



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 11:19:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: So.Mn.Fan

And I'll still take him in a heartbeat over what we have.


I will take a TV dinner over dog poo also



Jeff Jesser -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 11:29:36 AM)

Dungy and Co in Tampa could have won one before Gruden took over if the refs didn't hose them on that non-catch in the NFCCG.  I forget the specifics.



Tim Cady -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 2:03:31 PM)

I remember that at the end of the Rams game. Either the tampa guy caught it and the said he didn't or the Rams guy didn't and they said he did.

I guess I don't remember the specifics either. [;)]

Outside of the Rams were the NFL's darling with the refs that year. We led at halftime, then the Rams returned the kickoff to tie the game with not less than 2 illegal blocks. Next drive, we have a 3rd down play, imperative that we get the first down to sustain momentum and the refs call Cris Carter incompletion for Juggling ball, before he went out of bounds. Later in the game Randy altered his relationship with the refs and the league forever, by giving the ref, unsolited water. Randy thought he was thirsty, but I thought he was already all wet if you know what I mean.[;)]



Easy E -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 2:12:13 PM)

That Bucs team didn't have the greatest talent, but they had consistency, loyalty, and chemistry. They played hard for Dungy, worked their asses off, and pulled together as a team. They were by far, far and away, the most inept sports organization in the history or the world, and Dungy turned that on it's head from just about the moment he took over.

It took Gruden one year to shred that completely. He did get a ring out of it, but I saw nothing that year he did differently than Dungy, and the mess of that team since is his legacy.

Don't get me wrong, he's a better than average coach, he's just not better than Tony Dungy, IMO.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 2:59:10 PM)

It was Shaun King that threw it so it was a Buc who caught but they said he didn't.  That's all I remember.  



Trekgeekscott -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 3:10:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Dungy and Co in Tampa could have won one before Gruden took over if the refs didn't hose them on that non-catch in the NFCCG.  I forget the specifics.



they changed the rules because of that play. 

They said it was incomplete despite him clearly having control of the ball, but IIRC the ball touched the ground....by rule at the time, that was considered incomplete.  It was controversial and unfortunate...but it was within the rules...



Todd M -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 3:16:42 PM)

The Bert Emanuel rule...



Guest -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 11:04:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Don't get me wrong, he's a better than average coach, he's just not better than Tony Dungy, IMO.

**********************************
You really think so?  Based on what? 

I guess we need to define average first, but I'm not certain I would call him above average.

How often do you hear that many players come out and speak poorly of their coach? 



Guest -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/30/2009 11:05:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd Mallett

The Bert Emanuel rule...

****************************
Yes! Good memory.



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/31/2009 7:13:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Don't get me wrong, he's a better than average coach, he's just not better than Tony Dungy, IMO.

**********************************
You really think so?  Based on what? 

I guess we need to define average first, but I'm not certain I would call him above average.

How often do you hear that many players come out and speak poorly of their coach? 


Certain guys become media favorites and their rep gets bigger than their production.

That goes for Bill Cowher also.  He coached for a decade and a half and won just one Super Bowl.  On top of that, he did that with two of the finest coordinators in the business. 

I like Cowher, but he is not on the level of Walsh, Parcels (the younger one), etc.  Before Big Ben he mismanaged the QB position for years.



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/31/2009 12:09:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Certain guys become media favorites and their rep gets bigger than their production.

That goes for Bill Cowher also.  He coached for a decade and a half and won just one Super Bowl.  On top of that, he did that with two of the finest coordinators in the business. 

I like Cowher, but he is not on the level of Walsh, Parcels (the younger one), etc.  Before Big Ben he mismanaged the QB position for years.


I'm glad you wrote that because I thought it was just me. There is SO much hype about Cowher and talk as if he'd be some kind of savior, but I've thought exactly what you wrote above. On top of that, Big Ben kind of let it slip in an interview that Cowher was the type that would just scream at his players. He and Gruden seem to have that in common.



So.Mn.Fan -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/31/2009 5:12:46 PM)

That, and rings.  [;)]




Lynn G. -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/31/2009 5:33:57 PM)

But as John pointed out, Cowher coached for a decade and a half before earning one - so it's not like he had some kind of magic touch. We've already talked about how much Gruden brought to Dungy's team when they won that ring.



Don T in CO -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/31/2009 7:23:45 PM)

After going 0-fer-48 (since '61), 1 for 15 sounds really darn good to me right now.



Tim Cady -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/31/2009 9:28:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Certain guys become media favorites and their rep gets bigger than their production.

That goes for Bill Cowher also.  He coached for a decade and a half and won just one Super Bowl.  On top of that, he did that with two of the finest coordinators in the business. 

I like Cowher, but he is not on the level of Walsh, Parcels (the younger one), etc.  Before Big Ben he mismanaged the QB position for years.


I'm glad you wrote that because I thought it was just me. There is SO much hype about Cowher and talk as if he'd be some kind of savior, but I've thought exactly what you wrote above. On top of that, Big Ben kind of let it slip in an interview that Cowher was the type that would just scream at his players. He and Gruden seem to have that in common.


I have been saying this all along about Cowher. I think he is closer to Denny than great. I would rather have Denny, Shottenheimer or Shannahan.



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:NFL News (1/31/2009 9:33:03 PM)

Yeah - but who reads your posts Tim?



{ducking and running} [:D]



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (2/1/2009 8:17:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Cady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Certain guys become media favorites and their rep gets bigger than their production.

That goes for Bill Cowher also.  He coached for a decade and a half and won just one Super Bowl.  On top of that, he did that with two of the finest coordinators in the business. 

I like Cowher, but he is not on the level of Walsh, Parcels (the younger one), etc.  Before Big Ben he mismanaged the QB position for years.


I'm glad you wrote that because I thought it was just me. There is SO much hype about Cowher and talk as if he'd be some kind of savior, but I've thought exactly what you wrote above. On top of that, Big Ben kind of let it slip in an interview that Cowher was the type that would just scream at his players. He and Gruden seem to have that in common.


I have been saying this all along about Cowher. I think he is closer to Denny than great. I would rather have Denny, Shottenheimer or Shannahan.


You are right.

He is a big improvement over what we have and I would take him in a heartbeat.  But people's memory does get clouded by the one ring.  Cowher for years made many mind-boggling decisions that may have cost his team additional titles.

I think the players like playing for Tomlin much better and I think, and I am only guessing, that when Tomlin retires he will have more rings than Cowher and will eventually be thought of as a better coach.  I am afraid that we really missed the boat on him.

I also agree that I would take Dungy over Cowher.



So.Mn.Fan -> RE: RE:NFL News (2/1/2009 12:05:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don T in CO

After going 0-fer-48 (since '61), 1 for 15 sounds really darn good to me right now.


Exactly what I was gettin at.
I don;t care squat about how/when/why "our guy" gets us a ring, just so he gets us one.
Rip Gruden if he DIDN'T win a title with that (handed over) team, not that he DID.



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