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Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/8/2009 4:46:37 PM)

We lost to Tampa. Crap.

Just let them stay in the game for far too long as poor special teams play killed us.

Half way through the season and what do we have?

Offense
A QB who can kill you with a long play and is good on his feet. But he holds onto the ball too long. Add in a very poor pass-blocking OL and the predictable happens. Flashes of greatness followed by bouts of ineptitude. A run game that can be good, but is not relied upon enough to help the OL and their pass blocking deficiencies.

Defense
A unit that is built to stop the run but can't rush the passer at all. If the defense could get some, nay, ANY pressure we would have a much better chance of being 6-2.

Special Teams
Just dreadful. Poor coverage abilites on both punts and kickoffs and poor blocking as well. Nelson was a very good returner, but without him this unit is pedestrian on it's good days.

Misc
Poorly discliplined team that commits too many penalties. I guess a 4-4 record is what this team deserves at this point in the season. It reflects how both good and bad this team is right now.

Will they make the playoffs? At this point doubtful. The team hasn't shown that they are going to improve very much on either side of the ball.



John Childress -> RE: The Packers (11/8/2009 6:47:08 PM)

Craig

You are a great man to come here today.

Do u think Capers was a mistake?  It seems he hasn't made the defense any better, maybe worse.



Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 9:08:53 AM)

Gotta be here for the good and bad games JC.
 
I don't believe Capers was a mistake but they should have made more moves to fill in key roster spots on D. 
 
It's obvious now that Kampman cannot play OLB and he's not going to resign after the season to do so.  He's a FA and the Packers are sure to use the franchise tag on him.  Problem is, you couldn't trade Kampman for an OLB before the season otherwise there would have been a full blown riot among the fans.  Now, the fans would be more understanding.
 
The safety position is poor after the starters and the CBs are bad after the top 3.  There's just not enough depth there.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the following happened after the season:
 
- Kampy is tagged and traded.  Someone will pay the first and third for him to come play DE.
- OL coach Campen is canned
- Special teams coach Slocum is canned
- Trade or high draft pick for a new OLB (similar to Clay Matthews) and a Safety.  If a trade, expect it to be a fairly notable name.
 
The biggest thing this team is lacking on defense is the pass rush.  If we can get some pressure, this defense looks a lot better.  They can stuff the run, but QBs are having all day to throw and it ruins the very good run defense.
 
I would look for TT to either get away from his build through the draft philosophy this offseason by trading picks for established players, or trade up to get a major difference maker on D.
 
I'm talking about the offseason already after 8 games.  Crap. [:@]



John Childress -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 9:36:06 AM)

I don't see teams giving up 2 high picks for Kampman with his big drop off this year.

I just don't understand the wisdom of bringing in a new defense that neutralizes your best player.



Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 10:06:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

I don't see teams giving up 2 high picks for Kampman with his big drop off this year.

I just don't understand the wisdom of bringing in a new defense that neutralizes your best player.

His production is only down due to the position change.  There are undoubtedly some teams that will believe that a move back to DE will get them the Kampman of the last 3 yrs.
 
The thing is, the defensive scheme wasn't working that was there.  So do you keep a defense that nuetralizes your entire team? 
 
I believe you are getting at that they should have brought in a 4-3 guy and I agree with you on that.  I'm not a big fan of the 3-4 overall.  Greg Williams would have been preferrable, IMO.  However Capers is a good DC, his record at that position speaks for itself. 



John Childress -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 10:40:46 AM)

When you already have 4-3 talent it makes a lot more sense to stay with it and concentrate on bringing in better players.

It's the Billies and Joes not the Xs and Os

If Capers was truly a great coach he could build a system around the talent



Trekgeekscott -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 11:11:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

I don't see teams giving up 2 high picks for Kampman with his big drop off this year.

I just don't understand the wisdom of bringing in a new defense that neutralizes your best player.

His production is only down due to the position change.  There are undoubtedly some teams that will believe that a move back to DE will get them the Kampman of the last 3 yrs.
 
The thing is, the defensive scheme wasn't working that was there.  So do you keep a defense that nuetralizes your entire team? 
 
I believe you are getting at that they should have brought in a 4-3 guy and I agree with you on that.  I'm not a big fan of the 3-4 overall.  Greg Williams would have been preferrable, IMO.  However Capers is a good DC, his record at that position speaks for itself. 


Capers isn't the problem.  He's definately a good DC.  but that scheme requires personell that GB didn't yet have...that's why they are stuggling a bit. 

Kampmann will not fetch 2 high picks.  Not if he's tagged and the team receiving him has to pay a top 5 salary for the guy.  He's good, but not Jared Allen. 

Packers biggest problems right now are AR holding the ball too long, trying to do too much on every play.  The OLine's inablity to block at all.  Kampmann playing way out of position.  And the STs look like crap. 



Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 11:28:34 AM)

The hot rumor is that the special teams coach will be fired today.  This should be interesting.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 11:50:35 AM)

Serious question regarding the non-safety yesterday.  I was at a bar supporting a buddies team but was watching the GB game in the background.  I didn't have any sound on that one.  What was the explanation that Rodgers wasn't in the EZ for the safety?  That play looked like a no brainer IMO.  



Lynn G. -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 11:52:57 AM)

The said it had to do with the impetus of the defense and that as long as Rodgers had one foot on the playing field, it didn't matter that the rest of his entire body was in the endzone. Kind of hokey - but I guess that's the rule.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 11:53:42 AM)

Weird. [sm=scratch.gif]



Tim Cady -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 12:11:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

The hot rumor is that the special teams coach will be fired today.  This should be interesting.

I am hearing Ron Wolf and Holmgren are being talked to.[:-]



Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 1:41:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Cady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

The hot rumor is that the special teams coach will be fired today.  This should be interesting.

I am hearing Ron Wolf and Holmgren are being talked to.[:-]

They are being spoken about in regards with the Browns.



Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 1:42:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

The said it had to do with the impetus of the defense and that as long as Rodgers had one foot on the playing field, it didn't matter that the rest of his entire body was in the endzone. Kind of hokey - but I guess that's the rule.

Yeah, that rule seems backwards when the ball crossing the plain is what determines if it's a TD or not and not where the feet are.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 3:00:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

The said it had to do with the impetus of the defense and that as long as Rodgers had one foot on the playing field, it didn't matter that the rest of his entire body was in the endzone. Kind of hokey - but I guess that's the rule.

Yeah, that rule seems backwards when the ball crossing the plain is what determines if it's a TD or not and not where the feet are.


I thought the rule was that the entire ball had to leave the endzone or it was a safety.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 3:13:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

The said it had to do with the impetus of the defense and that as long as Rodgers had one foot on the playing field, it didn't matter that the rest of his entire body was in the endzone. Kind of hokey - but I guess that's the rule.

Yeah, that rule seems backwards when the ball crossing the plain is what determines if it's a TD or not and not where the feet are.





I thought the rule was that the entire ball had to leave the endzone or it was a safety.



That was my take too but obviously wrong after yesterday's ruling.



Lars -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 3:56:47 PM)

Safety

  1. The important factor in a safety is impetus. Two points are scored for the opposing team when the ball is dead on or behind a team’s own goal line if the impetus came from a player on that team.

    Examples of Safety:


    (a) Blocked punt goes out of kicking team’s end zone. Impetus was provided by punting team. The block only changes direction of ball, not impetus.
    (b) Ball carrier retreats from field of play into his own end zone and is downed. Ball carrier provides impetus.
    (c) Offensive team commits a foul and spot of enforcement is behind its own goal line.
    (d) Player on receiving team muffs punt and, trying to get ball, forces or illegally kicks (creating new impetus) it into end zone where it goes out of the end zone or is recovered by a member of the receiving team in the end zone.

    Examples of Non-Safety:


    (a) Player intercepts a pass with both feet inbounds in the field of play and his momentum carries him into his own end zone. Ball is put in play at spot of interception.
    (b) Player intercepts a pass in his own end zone and is downed in the end zone, even after recovering in the end zone. Impetus came from passing team, not from defense. (Touchback)
    (c) Player passes from behind his own goal line. Opponent bats down ball in end zone. (Incomplete pass)



Jeff Jesser -> RE: The Packers (11/9/2009 4:26:51 PM)

So, based off of that, it WAS a safety and the refs botched it.  No other way to say it.  



John Childress -> RE: The Packers (11/10/2009 6:34:13 AM)

It was clear to everyone it was a safety.  He took the ball into the end zone and the ball never got out.


CAPERS

Grossly overrated coach!  First off, to implement a defense that minimizes your best player is stupid.  Second, just what has he ever won?

quote:

After a stint in the USFL, he began his NFL career as an assistant with the New Orleans Saints and was named defensive coordinator of the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1992, including a trip to the AFC Championship game in 1994. He remained with the Steelers until becoming head coach of the expansion Carolina Panthers in 1995. After 1995's 7–9 season, a record breaking mark for an expansion team, the Panthers went to the NFC Championship game in 1996. Continuing to spend against the salary cap, and eventually taking control of personnel matters in 1997, the Panthers went 7–9, followed by a dismal 4–12 season in 1998, at the end of which he was terminated.


After being let go from the Panthers, he served as an assistant with the Jacksonville Jaguars until becoming the head coach of the expansion Houston Texans on January 21, 2001. After starting out 4–12 (2002) and 5–11 (2003) in his first two seasons in Houston, the Texans posted a 7–9 mark in 2004.


Capers was known for his abilities as a defensive coach, and for his conservative play-calling on offense. Several TV announcers were known to predict Texans plays on occasion. He was also famous because he kept a 17 hour per day work schedule and sleeping just five hours per night, often on a couch in his office.


The Texans announced in 2005 following their record of 2-14 (worst in NFL) that Capers would be fired January 2, 2006.


On January 23, 2006, the Miami Dolphins announced the hiring of Dom Capers as the team's defensive coordinator. There, he served as assistant head coach. With an annual salary of $2.6 million, Capers was the highest paid assistant coach in the NFL, alongside Washington Redskins assistant head coach Gregg Williams. On Thursday, January 3, 2008, Dom Capers was fired along with all offensive and defensive coaches. It was said that the new head coach may hire the assistants back.[1]


On January 29, 2008, Capers interviewed with the Dallas Cowboys for the vacant linebackers coach position. It is rumored that he was offered the defensive coordinator or defensive consultant position.[2]


On February 21, 2008, Capers was hired by the Patriots as their secondary coach/special assistant, replacing Joel Collier.
On January 19, 2009, Capers was named the Green Bay Packers defensive coordinator by head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson, where he plans to replace the 4-3 defense Green Bay has used since 1992 with the 3-4 he used in Miami.[3]


I have no fear the Packers defense will ever be great with this guy



Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/10/2009 9:13:31 AM)

Capers has had success where he was the DC:
In three seasons in Pittsburgh, the defense ranked 13th, third and second. In Carolina, they ranked 10th, 15th and 30th. In Jacksonville, they ranked fourth and 12th and in Miami they ranked fourth and 23rd.



Tim Cady -> RE: The Packers (11/10/2009 10:34:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Cady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

The hot rumor is that the special teams coach will be fired today.  This should be interesting.

I am hearing Ron Wolf and Holmgren are being talked to.[:-]

They are being spoken about in regards with the Browns.


KFAN was refering to the Packers. Dave Sinican(sp?)



Tim Cady -> RE: The Packers (11/10/2009 11:03:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

Capers has had success where he was the DC:
In three seasons in Pittsburgh, the defense ranked 13th, third and second. In Carolina, they ranked 10th, 15th and 30th. In Jacksonville, they ranked fourth and 12th and in Miami they ranked fourth and 23rd.



We talked about this last summer that they should get rid of Kampman or not go 3-4. What happened to Justin Harrel, you were giving me positive reports in July?

Now it seems that Kampman is not a good fit ever in 3-4 and Harrel is on milk cartons.

Harsh, I know. AJ Hawk is struggling as well is he not? Ted Thompson, outside of Aaron Rodgers, which was a no brainer talent wise pick in the 20's, although could be argued that the team at the time had bigger priorities than qbof. How many potential SB titles were lost by not going for it when the window was all the way open?Rodgers was good after being project the top pick leading up to the draft, just not what you needed at the time. TT has sucked in the first round. He has been awesome in the 2nd round, I wanted Jennings and thought the Vikings could get him in the 3rd, where he was projected. TT was a genius to take him in the 2nd.

I don't mean to pile on, but I gotta agree with JC that bringing Capers in to nuetralize your best defensive player is a head scratcher.

I like you and feel for you as a Packer fan. As a Viking fan though, I gotta admit that I am enjoying this season. It will all come crashing down if we don't win it all though.

Keep your chin up. Were you around when Al Pann used to post, back on the strib talk 1 10 years ago? He was a cool Packer fan as well.



Lynn G. -> RE: The Packers (11/10/2009 11:22:32 AM)

Al used to be all palsy walsy on the strib board and then go to his Packer board and quote people from here and talk about what a bunch of rubes we are. He was playing us.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: The Packers (11/10/2009 11:43:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead Craig

Capers has had success where he was the DC:
In three seasons in Pittsburgh, the defense ranked 13th, third and second. In Carolina, they ranked 10th, 15th and 30th. In Jacksonville, they ranked fourth and 12th and in Miami they ranked fourth and 23rd.


Sounds to me like he's been all over the place with his defenses.



Cheesehead Craig -> RE: The Packers (11/10/2009 11:57:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim Cady

We talked about this last summer that they should get rid of Kampman or not go 3-4. What happened to Justin Harrel, you were giving me positive reports in July?

Now it seems that Kampman is not a good fit ever in 3-4 and Harrel is on milk cartons.


Harrell was healthy and hopes were high for him back then and he was showing flashes of why he was thought of highly even after he got hurt in college.  Then he friggin' got hurt yet again.  He was clearly a bust pick.  Kampman is a real good player and I thought he had the physical tools to play OLB (as he did in college) but he just didn't take to the position switch too well and frankly, I think he mentally didn't want to do it and therefore hasn't taken to it like he should have.  JMO.

quote:

Harsh, I know. AJ Hawk is struggling as well is he not?

AJ's role is that of block eater so that way Barnett can make plays.  AJ is our best run stuffing LB and isn't asked to be a superstar stat guy, but he's doing his job and then some.  Given where he was picked it's easy to want more out of him.

quote:

Ted Thompson, outside of Aaron Rodgers, which was a no brainer talent wise pick in the 20's, although could be argued that the team at the time had bigger priorities than qbof. How many potential SB titles were lost by not going for it when the window was all the way open?  Rodgers was good after being project the top pick leading up to the draft, just not what you needed at the time. TT has sucked in the first round. He has been awesome in the 2nd round, I wanted Jennings and thought the Vikings could get him in the 3rd, where he was projected. TT was a genius to take him in the 2nd.

When TT took over, the roster had no depth.  None.  We clearly saw that when in TT's first year as GM and the injuries piled up we went 4-12 as there was nothing there to fall back on.  Sherman drafted poorly and gave up some draft picks for FA that didn't pan out.  That was the window for the titles.  TT saw that we couldn't compete right away and had to rebuild the roster.  2007 was a year where everything bounced the right way and we had a chance but couldn't close the deal. 
 
Harrell was a very risky pick, but TT banked on the guy healing and he never has.  Other 1st round picks are Rodgers, Hawk and Matthews that have been very good picks.  Raji is healthy after being hurt in camp and is showing that he will be a very good DT.  I wouldn't say his first round picks have sucked.  Only one has.

quote:

I don't mean to pile on, but I gotta agree with JC that bringing Capers in to nuetralize your best defensive player is a head scratcher.

I wanted Williams and have us keep running the 4-3, but you get who you get.
 
Overall the defense has improved over last season by quite a bit, so I can't argue the overall success.  But to only hire a guy based on what he will do with your best pass rusher is shortsighted.  How did the Randy Ratio hire work out?

quote:

I like you and feel for you as a Packer fan. As a Viking fan though, I gotta admit that I am enjoying this season. It will all come crashing down if we don't win it all though.

Keep your chin up. Were you around when Al Pann used to post, back on the strib talk 1 10 years ago? He was a cool Packer fan as well.

Can't be great every season and it's a frustrating one this year.  But the Pack will get better. 



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