RE: College Football (Future Vikings!)

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Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 10:54:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Umm, Art, good luck getting the conferences to go to less teams....and less money in their TV contracts. Ain't happening, man. Rankings will always be a part of it. Someday rankings will be removed from the equation. Someday.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 11:06:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: El Duderino quote: ORIGINAL: drviking quote: ORIGINAL: Art Mariota has the ability to become a good NFL QB. TEN will draft him and hope he's their next McNair. It is too much of a QB driven league to not take the chance. BTW, the best team won. #2, #3 etc... irrelevant. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of rankings determining a playoff field and champion. i am not sure how you set the playoff field without rankings. what did you have in mind? 128 team round robin? Conference champs only. Some expected conference realignment. No at large bids. Tidy Bowls can go to 2nd/3rd place finishers. Going to 8 power conferences? Or 4? It won't ever go to 8. If anything, 4 may happen anyway and the NCAA will disappear as players will (finally) get paid. they players already get paid. They get a free education... Apprentices get paid in many fields that are less hazardous than football, where their companies make nowhere near the money the NCAA does. To take it further, start a real minor league for the NFL. Don't make kids have to go to college to get better at sports. Yep. And the actual cost of that "education" to the institutions is very little. The NCAA is making billions off of these guys yet they can't even sell their OWN autograph to someone. That makes very little sense IMO. Some argue that the schools are providing the platform, and yes, that's true, but the elite players do as much for the school's platform as the school does for theirs. How much do you think Johnny Manziel or Tim Tebow did for their respective schools? They brought them tens of millions of dollars. And that figure is probably low. And the other part is; they have no other platform because the NFL is essentially keeping college as a "free" minor league system.

drviking -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 11:42:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: El Duderino quote: ORIGINAL: drviking quote: ORIGINAL: Art Mariota has the ability to become a good NFL QB. TEN will draft him and hope he's their next McNair. It is too much of a QB driven league to not take the chance. BTW, the best team won. #2, #3 etc... irrelevant. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of rankings determining a playoff field and champion. i am not sure how you set the playoff field without rankings. what did you have in mind? 128 team round robin? Conference champs only. Some expected conference realignment. No at large bids. Tidy Bowls can go to 2nd/3rd place finishers. Going to 8 power conferences? Or 4? It won't ever go to 8. If anything, 4 may happen anyway and the NCAA will disappear as players will (finally) get paid. they players already get paid. They get a free education... Apprentices get paid in many fields that are less hazardous than football, where their companies make nowhere near the money the NCAA does. To take it further, start a real minor league for the NFL. Don't make kids have to go to college to get better at sports. now, you're talking. get rid of college sports, that has been my stance for a long time

Trekgeekscott -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 12:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: El Duderino quote: ORIGINAL: drviking quote: ORIGINAL: Art Mariota has the ability to become a good NFL QB. TEN will draft him and hope he's their next McNair. It is too much of a QB driven league to not take the chance. BTW, the best team won. #2, #3 etc... irrelevant. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of rankings determining a playoff field and champion. i am not sure how you set the playoff field without rankings. what did you have in mind? 128 team round robin? Conference champs only. Some expected conference realignment. No at large bids. Tidy Bowls can go to 2nd/3rd place finishers. Going to 8 power conferences? Or 4? It won't ever go to 8. If anything, 4 may happen anyway and the NCAA will disappear as players will (finally) get paid. they players already get paid. They get a free education... Apprentices get paid in many fields that are less hazardous than football, where their companies make nowhere near the money the NCAA does. To take it further, start a real minor league for the NFL. Don't make kids have to go to college to get better at sports. Yep. And the actual cost of that "education" to the institutions is very little. The NCAA is making billions off of these guys yet they can't even sell their OWN autograph to someone. That makes very little sense IMO. Some argue that the schools are providing the platform, and yes, that's true, but the elite players do as much for the school's platform as the school does for theirs. How much do you think Johnny Manziel or Tim Tebow did for their respective schools? They brought them tens of millions of dollars. And that figure is probably low. And the other part is; they have no other platform because the NFL is essentially keeping college as a "free" minor league system. Ah, that's just a lot of bullshit. I don't care how much value they bring the school, they are getting something in return for playing for those schools. You can pay the players when everyone else gets a free education.

drviking -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 12:44:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: El Duderino quote: ORIGINAL: drviking quote: ORIGINAL: Art Mariota has the ability to become a good NFL QB. TEN will draft him and hope he's their next McNair. It is too much of a QB driven league to not take the chance. BTW, the best team won. #2, #3 etc... irrelevant. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of rankings determining a playoff field and champion. i am not sure how you set the playoff field without rankings. what did you have in mind? 128 team round robin? Conference champs only. Some expected conference realignment. No at large bids. Tidy Bowls can go to 2nd/3rd place finishers. Going to 8 power conferences? Or 4? It won't ever go to 8. If anything, 4 may happen anyway and the NCAA will disappear as players will (finally) get paid. they players already get paid. They get a free education... Apprentices get paid in many fields that are less hazardous than football, where their companies make nowhere near the money the NCAA does. To take it further, start a real minor league for the NFL. Don't make kids have to go to college to get better at sports. Yep. And the actual cost of that "education" to the institutions is very little. The NCAA is making billions off of these guys yet they can't even sell their OWN autograph to someone. That makes very little sense IMO. Some argue that the schools are providing the platform, and yes, that's true, but the elite players do as much for the school's platform as the school does for theirs. How much do you think Johnny Manziel or Tim Tebow did for their respective schools? They brought them tens of millions of dollars. And that figure is probably low. And the other part is; they have no other platform because the NFL is essentially keeping college as a "free" minor league system. Ah, that's just a lot of bullshit. I don't care how much value they bring the school, they are getting something in return for playing for those schools. You can pay the players when everyone else gets a free education. i would imagine the 'education' that most of these players get is pretty pathetic. although, i would say that holds true for most of the student population, just magnified for football players

drviking -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 12:47:27 PM)
are you saying that JuCo players should get paid http://www.usnews.com/education/community-colleges/articles/2015/01/16/obamas-free-community-college-plan-what-students-need-to-know

Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 12:47:42 PM)
I wouldn't get rid of college sports. It's a great experience for a lot of kids in different sports. But don't use it as a minor league system for basketball or football. Hockey and baseball have college teams even with Single A thru AAA systems for baseball, and major junior hockey for the NHL. But mostly, just don't make it a requirement to attend college to play competitive football in preparation for the NFL. Not every aspiring athlete likes ... is good at ... or needs to go to college.

Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 12:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott Ah, that's just a lot of bullshit. I don't care how much value they bring the school, they are getting something in return for playing for those schools. You can pay the players when everyone else gets a free education. Give them a real option. Forcing school on them ... and then calling it compensation ... is not the way. You don't have to join the Air Force to learn to be a pilot.

DavidAOlson -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 1:05:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott Ah, that's just a lot of bullshit. I don't care how much value they bring the school, they are getting something in return for playing for those schools. You can pay the players when everyone else gets a free education. Give them a real option. Forcing school on them ... and then calling it compensation ... is not the way. You don't have to join the Air Force to learn to be a pilot. So go ahead: give those aspiring athletes a forum where they can play football and get paid. Start a league! Why don't they go play in the Arena League? There's no reason basketball players have to go to college. They can play professionally in a variety of leagues. Yet most of them, and almost all the top prospects, still choose to play in college. Why? Is the coaching and development that much better? Is there value in playing on a big stage? Is there value in the college experience? College players don't just get an education. They get coaching, facilities, a team, an identity, a history, a tradition, a supportive atmosphere, and a large stage where they can prove their worth. They get a chance to mature physically. A small number of them could play professionally, but it's not always clear which ones will develop into the best prospects, and there likely aren't enough professionally-minded players to make a viable developmental league. And they can't go to the NFL because the league and player's union have agreed to keep them out. That's not the fault of the colleges. Nobody is forced to go to college. That just happens to be the best forum to develop into an NFL prospect. If an alternative is economically viable --- a profitable developmental league which can pay the players --- why doesn't it already exist?

Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 1:19:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson If an alternative is economically viable --- a profitable developmental league which can pay the players --- why doesn't it already exist? I'll throw an idea out there. The NCAA doesn't want to lose a major source of income and will do everything it can to squelch it. And the NFL is more than happy to be a leech.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 1:30:40 PM)
Exactly, Art. DAO, basketball is actually changing that way. I think we're going to see more and more guys do the overseas/professional route unless major changes are made. I still say paying the players directly from the schools is obviously problematic. But: 1) They should still get some cut from licensing/videogames/merchandise/TV, etc. If you have to, put it into a future fund or something that they can withdraw from after graduating. 2) The NCAA should not be able to blatantly use their likeness (jersey number, etc.) and then give them nothing for that, all while hiding behind the "it's the school's jersey, not the players." You don't think a TON of non-A&M/Florida fans bought Manziel/Tebow jerseys? Ultimately I still think the best way is to let players actually profit off of and market themselves. Tebow gets millions in college while the longsnapper doesn't. Guess what? That's fair. That's his market value. That player can sell endorsements and autographs, etc. while still being an "amateur". And ya, you'll have some problems with some big corporate giants being "boosters" for these players in endorsements to entice them to go to their school, but that won't really be any different than it is now. And at least we'll stop punishing 18 and 19 year old kids for earning what is rightfully theirs.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 1:35:26 PM)
And one other thing; the benefit argument of football/basketball players vs. the other athletes is absurd to me. 1) That's what the market bears. Will Smith gets paid more than X independent movie actor. That's who people pay to see. That's life. 2) Those athletes DO get more benefits from other players already. You have schools paying for $5M insurance policies for specific "special" athletes like Gurley, etc. And parents and families get special trips paid for by schools to go to football/basketball championship games vs. other sports. It's not an "equal" world. Ya, the basketball/football players get more because they're paying for the other sports. No different than the NFL's best QB getting paid more than the best lacrosse player in the world.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 1:35:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Exactly, Art. DAO, basketball is actually changing that way. I think we're going to see more and more guys do the overseas/professional route unless major changes are made. I still say paying the players directly from the schools is obviously problematic. But: 1) They should still get some cut from licensing/videogames/merchandise/TV, etc. If you have to, put it into a future fund or something that they can withdraw from after graduating. 2) The NCAA should not be able to blatantly use their likeness (jersey number, etc.) and then give them nothing for that, all while hiding behind the "it's the school's jersey, not the players." You don't think a TON of non-A&M/Florida fans bought Manziel/Tebow jerseys? Ultimately I still think the best way is to let players actually profit off of and market themselves. Tebow gets millions in college while the longsnapper doesn't. Guess what? That's fair. That's his market value. That player can sell endorsements and autographs, etc. while still being an "amateur". And ya, you'll have some problems with some big corporate giants being "boosters" for these players in endorsements to entice them to go to their school, but that won't really be any different than it is now. And at least we'll stop punishing 18 and 19 year old kids for earning what is rightfully theirs. Somebody needs to sue the NCAA for using their image etc without them getting compensation. And if anyone wants to sell their autograph the NCAA can suck it.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 1:38:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Exactly, Art. DAO, basketball is actually changing that way. I think we're going to see more and more guys do the overseas/professional route unless major changes are made. I still say paying the players directly from the schools is obviously problematic. But: 1) They should still get some cut from licensing/videogames/merchandise/TV, etc. If you have to, put it into a future fund or something that they can withdraw from after graduating. 2) The NCAA should not be able to blatantly use their likeness (jersey number, etc.) and then give them nothing for that, all while hiding behind the "it's the school's jersey, not the players." You don't think a TON of non-A&M/Florida fans bought Manziel/Tebow jerseys? Ultimately I still think the best way is to let players actually profit off of and market themselves. Tebow gets millions in college while the longsnapper doesn't. Guess what? That's fair. That's his market value. That player can sell endorsements and autographs, etc. while still being an "amateur". And ya, you'll have some problems with some big corporate giants being "boosters" for these players in endorsements to entice them to go to their school, but that won't really be any different than it is now. And at least we'll stop punishing 18 and 19 year old kids for earning what is rightfully theirs. Somebody needs to sue the NCAA for using their image etc without them getting compensation. And if anyone wants to sell their autograph the NCAA can suck it. So where do you draw the line, Scott? The NCAA is going to advertise the Winstons and Mariotas of the world for big games on TV, and you're going to buy videogames of teams because of the likeness of the players on your favorite team, not the school itself. Your cable TV package charges $10-20 for your sports channels based on what the conferences are getting from those networks, which in turn is a draw based on the players playing. If you go back and play an NCAA basketball "legends" game, you know damn well who the players are for the 1960's UCLA teams, or Magic's Michigan State team, or the early 90's Duke teams. But, as the O'Bannon lawsuit is alleging, they're not getting a cent from that. Do you agree they should get a cut of that revenue as well?

bohumm -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 6:29:01 PM)
Question: Now that the bleating bitches, have reversed the damage to the school and the coach, do you think they are going to find a way to un-buttfukk all those kids the coach looked the other way on so he could keep accumulating all those wins? Or do they really just care more about the fukking football program?

JT2 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/16/2015 11:23:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Art quote: ORIGINAL: El Duderino quote: ORIGINAL: drviking quote: ORIGINAL: Art Mariota has the ability to become a good NFL QB. TEN will draft him and hope he's their next McNair. It is too much of a QB driven league to not take the chance. BTW, the best team won. #2, #3 etc... irrelevant. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of rankings determining a playoff field and champion. i am not sure how you set the playoff field without rankings. what did you have in mind? 128 team round robin? Conference champs only. Some expected conference realignment. No at large bids. Tidy Bowls can go to 2nd/3rd place finishers. Going to 8 power conferences? Or 4? It won't ever go to 8. If anything, 4 may happen anyway and the NCAA will disappear as players will (finally) get paid. they players already get paid. They get a free education... Apprentices get paid in many fields that are less hazardous than football, where their companies make nowhere near the money the NCAA does. To take it further, start a real minor league for the NFL. Don't make kids have to go to college to get better at sports. Yep. And the actual cost of that "education" to the institutions is very little. The NCAA is making billions off of these guys yet they can't even sell their OWN autograph to someone. That makes very little sense IMO. Some argue that the schools are providing the platform, and yes, that's true, but the elite players do as much for the school's platform as the school does for theirs. How much do you think Johnny Manziel or Tim Tebow did for their respective schools? They brought them tens of millions of dollars. And that figure is probably low. And the other part is; they have no other platform because the NFL is essentially keeping college as a "free" minor league system. Ah, that's just a lot of bullshit. I don't care how much value they bring the school, they are getting something in return for playing for those schools. You can pay the players when everyone else gets a free education. Make no mistake, student athletes, especially football players are not getting a "Free" education. They pay for it, literally with blood, sweat and tears. They also risk, every day when they go to work/practice, their future earning potential and livelihood, and sometimes even the ability to carry on a normal life. BTW, these athletic scholarships are not unconditional. Blow out your knee, see if you keep your scholarship.

Dave Odle -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/17/2015 3:56:33 PM)
All very good points, gents. However, I don't follow college football merely for the players. I follow college football in support of my alma mater and school pride. If Jay Ajayi or or Grant Hedrick played for an arena league or NFL Europe, I would have zero interest because of team loyalty. Sure, it is a great farm league for these guys to hone their skills, but I wouldn't have any emotional or vested interest other than scouting potential Vikings. However, after the National Championship game, I immediately checked final top 25 standings to see where Boise State ended the year.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/17/2015 5:20:37 PM)
Great point, Pete. They're risking a whole heck of a lot more than the schools or the coaches by playing. And Dave, do you watch other games other than Boise State? Because if you do, any of them, you're contributing to the money train with TV deals/your cable package, etc.

McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/17/2015 5:45:29 PM)
Skilz, Clearly by attending Pepperdine you have some kind of ax to grind with College Football. It's Ok man, we don't expect you to ever get it. Dave O, I agree with you.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/17/2015 5:58:55 PM)
[&:][&:] Murf. How so? I actually love college football. No ax to grind at all. I just think the players should get paid for what they're doing. I think the same in college basketball as well, and that's my favorite sport along with baseball.

McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/18/2015 12:06:26 PM)
I paid 40,000 for my education, my wife paid 20,000 for hers. So far I have saved 30,000 of the 220,000 it will cost if I pay for my two sons to go to college. Those guys are getting paid. You might actually realize it if you have had already paid 90,000 into it with 190,000 to go like I have.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/18/2015 4:13:38 PM)
Murf, you're barking up the wrong tree talking to me about that. My loans are more than yours (your wife's, yours, sons combined) between law school and college, of course with some academic scholarships helping some. Parents haven't paid a dime. I STILL think the guys should get paid.

SoMnFan -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/18/2015 8:31:04 PM)
So far I have saved 30,000 of the 220,000 it will cost if I pay for my two sons to go to college. I counted on my two boys getting athletic scholarships. Its right there in the "SMF Life Plan", right next to the section on "Relying on the PowerBall to meet your retirement needs". Anyone interested in a copy of "SMF Life Plan", they are still available. PM me your address, along with your payment-type choice. Hard-cover copies sell for $2mil, soft-covered for $1.5mil. Order now. Supplies are limited.

djskillz -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/18/2015 8:35:29 PM)
Is there at least an audio version?

hagar -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/18/2015 8:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoMnFan So far I have saved 30,000 of the 220,000 it will cost if I pay for my two sons to go to college. I counted on my two boys getting athletic scholarships. Its right there in the "SMF Life Plan", right next to the section on "Relying on the PowerBall to meet your retirement needs". Anyone interested in a copy of "SMF Life Plan", they are still available. PM me your address, along with your payment-type choice. Hard-cover copies sell for $2mil, soft-covered for $1.5mil. Order now. Supplies are limited. Is there a Cliff Notes available?

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