RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (Full Version)

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twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 8:17:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

This MLB offseason has been notable for its inaction in free agency, with many star players still unsigned just weeks before pitchers and catchers are set to report.

Many of those players are represented by Scott Boras, who, in a telephone interview with The Athletic, criticized franchises for skimping on payrolls despite healthy revenues and losing to get better draft picks and higher monetary allotments to sign those players.

"I do my job. I care for my clients. I am spending every waking hour trying to bring attention to owners so they act with integrity," Boras told The Athletic. "Certainly I want them to sign my clients. But I'm trying to get them to act with integrity. Winning is the cement of baseball integrity."

"We kicked people out of the game when they tried to not win," Boras continued, referring to the Black Sox scandal, in which baseball banned eight members of the 1919 Chicago White Sox after they were accused of intentionally losing the World Series. "We have to get rid of the noncompetitive cancer. We can't go to our fan bases and sell the promise of losing to win later. That is destructive to our sport because it has removed one-third of the competition."



Yeah right Scott....trying to get franchises to pay players max money many years after best years is what the problem is. They aren't going to do it any more.

AROD
Pujols
Ellsbury
Etc.



BINGO!!!!

Analytics have taken over all front offices and none are going to give LONG YEARS and BIG MONEY to guys on the back half of their career. Just not going to happen anymore. they want appropriate value and they are wanting shorter terms so they aren't locked in for the better part of a decade into an aging player outside of the steroid era.


What I want to know is why did it take them so long to figure this out when I/we have been commenting on it for over a decade?

Because the old-time baseball execs were mostly morons. The young guys are figuring it out.




TJSweens -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 8:26:12 AM)

In the old days the owners were found guilty of collusion when they started holding the line after the commissioner issued guidelines for limiting position player contracts to 3 years and pitcher contracts to 2 years. It cost MLB a lot of money to lose that suit and left them gun shy for a long time.

Now front offices have a battery of analytics showing what players are typically worth at various stages of their careers. It's been an evolution as year by year more FO's become analytics driven. If the players try a collusion suit now, the owners will have a ton of statistical evidence to support their spending decisions.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 8:27:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

In the old days the owners were found guilty of collusion when they started holding the line after the commissioner issued guidelines for limiting position player contracts to 3 years and pitcher contracts to 2 years. It cost MLB a lot of money to lose that suit and left them gun shy for a long time.

Now front offices have a battery of analytics showing what players are typically worth at various stages of their careers. It's been an evolution as year by year more FO's become analytics driven. If the players try a collusion suit now, the owners will have a ton of statistical evidence to support their spending decisions.


Based on your comments elsewhere the Brewers didn't use analytics to sign Cain [:D]




TJSweens -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 8:35:15 AM)

I would say no they didn't.




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 8:59:25 AM)

This headline shocks me in 2 ways:

Vlad's Hall plaque will be first with Angels cap

https://www.mlb.com/news/vladimir-guerrero-will-enter-hall-as-an-angel/c-265323122

One, I guess it's pretty amazing that no HOF players wear an Angels cap. Wouldn't have guessed that to be the case, but I guess their best players had big careers elsewhere....Carew, Reggie, Bert, Ryan.

Two, Vlad is gonna wear an Angels cap on his plaque? Totally seems like an Expo to me. Did not see that coming. Players aren't supposed to have a choice anymore. Are they doing him a marketing favor? Seems like it.




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 9:00:58 AM)

Just reading the article now. Makes it seem like Vlad made the decision? I thought the HOF put an end to that nonsense after the Wade Boggs debacle?




TJSweens -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 9:44:53 AM)

Vlad had a great run with the Angels too. He won the MVP in 2004. He came in 3rd in 2005 & 2007, 9th in 2006 and 14th in 2008. I still think he should have gone in as an Expo, but it isn't like Carew going to the Angels after he already won his 7 batting titles.




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 10:03:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

How much are the Brewers paying Lorenzo Cain?

They also traded 4 prospects for Yelich. What a day for them!

Kerry, are you pretty excited about these moves for the Brewers?

I'd maybe be a Brewers fan if I lived halfway between the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. They want to compete!


How can any player be worth four players? This sounds like a Herschel Walker trade.




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 10:09:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

This MLB offseason has been notable for its inaction in free agency, with many star players still unsigned just weeks before pitchers and catchers are set to report.

Many of those players are represented by Scott Boras, who, in a telephone interview with The Athletic, criticized franchises for skimping on payrolls despite healthy revenues and losing to get better draft picks and higher monetary allotments to sign those players.

"I do my job. I care for my clients. I am spending every waking hour trying to bring attention to owners so they act with integrity," Boras told The Athletic. "Certainly I want them to sign my clients. But I'm trying to get them to act with integrity. Winning is the cement of baseball integrity."

"We kicked people out of the game when they tried to not win," Boras continued, referring to the Black Sox scandal, in which baseball banned eight members of the 1919 Chicago White Sox after they were accused of intentionally losing the World Series. "We have to get rid of the noncompetitive cancer. We can't go to our fan bases and sell the promise of losing to win later. That is destructive to our sport because it has removed one-third of the competition."



Yeah right Scott....trying to get franchises to pay players max money many years after best years is what the problem is. They aren't going to do it any more.

AROD
Pujols
Ellsbury
Etc.



BINGO!!!!

Analytics have taken over all front offices and none are going to give LONG YEARS and BIG MONEY to guys on the back half of their career. Just not going to happen anymore. they want appropriate value and they are wanting shorter terms so they aren't locked in for the better part of a decade into an aging player outside of the steroid era.


What I want to know is why did it take them so long to figure this out when I/we have been commenting on it for over a decade?

Because the old-time baseball execs were mostly morons. The young guys are figuring it out.


Thanks for calling me a genius Matt. Nice to be acknowledged. [8|]




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 10:12:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

In the old days the owners were found guilty of collusion when they started holding the line after the commissioner issued guidelines for limiting position player contracts to 3 years and pitcher contracts to 2 years. It cost MLB a lot of money to lose that suit and left them gun shy for a long time.

Now front offices have a battery of analytics showing what players are typically worth at various stages of their careers. It's been an evolution as year by year more FO's become analytics driven. If the players try a collusion suit now, the owners will have a ton of statistical evidence to support their spending decisions.


Based on your comments elsewhere the Brewers didn't use analytics to sign Cain [:D]


Somebody may get fired over that hire. That was the pure definition of stupid.




Phil Riewer -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 10:28:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

In the old days the owners were found guilty of collusion when they started holding the line after the commissioner issued guidelines for limiting position player contracts to 3 years and pitcher contracts to 2 years. It cost MLB a lot of money to lose that suit and left them gun shy for a long time.

Now front offices have a battery of analytics showing what players are typically worth at various stages of their careers. It's been an evolution as year by year more FO's become analytics driven. If the players try a collusion suit now, the owners will have a ton of statistical evidence to support their spending decisions.


Based on your comments elsewhere the Brewers didn't use analytics to sign Cain [:D]


Somebody may get fired over that hire. That was the pure definition of stupid.


They signed Cain after they traded four...they have the money to spend plus Braun contract is getting close to over.

It isn't always the 4 players for 1....it was also that Cain was out there and Yelich is on a reasonable contract.




sixthwi -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 11:34:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

How much are the Brewers paying Lorenzo Cain?

They also traded 4 prospects for Yelich. What a day for them!

Kerry, are you pretty excited about these moves for the Brewers?

I'd maybe be a Brewers fan if I lived halfway between the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. They want to compete!


How can any player be worth four players? This sounds like a Herschel Walker trade.


Only one of those guys is close to being major league ready. Two of them are in A ball. Not at all like the Herschel Walker trade.




Phil Riewer -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/26/2018 1:57:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sixthwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

How much are the Brewers paying Lorenzo Cain?

They also traded 4 prospects for Yelich. What a day for them!

Kerry, are you pretty excited about these moves for the Brewers?

I'd maybe be a Brewers fan if I lived halfway between the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. They want to compete!


How can any player be worth four players? This sounds like a Herschel Walker trade.


Only one of those guys is close to being major league ready. Two of them are in A ball. Not at all like the Herschel Walker trade.


There was over 6 draft picks too for Hershel.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/27/2018 12:04:10 PM)

Apparently Cleveland was after Cain on a 3 year deal before the Brewers swept in.

Division Champs trying to improve. Man, the Twins are obviously so much smarter than these clowns.

And Manny at SS. Isn't he too big/lumbering?

After weeks of speculation, Orioles manager Buck Showalter confirmed today to fans and reporters (including MASNsports.com’s Roch Kubatko) that Manny Machado would be moving from third base to shortstop, with Tim Beckham shifting over to the hot corner. This will at least be the club’s setup going into Spring Training, Showalter specified, though plans could still change down the road.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/27/2018 12:50:04 PM)

That'll be fun to watch
I love it when guys like Buck make "experts" squirm.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 12:17:19 PM)

This is why the Pohlads don't go balls-out.
They support each other including fire sales of teams.

MLB has no concerns about Marlins and Pirates cutting payroll

The Miami Marlins and Pittsburgh Pirates have come under fire recently after electing to sell off many of their core players in trades, rather than spend money to keep themselves competitive.
Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan reported this week that the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA) is even currently weighing the option of filing grievances against those two clubs, with the charge being they’ve ignored rules in the collective bargain agreement that require them to put money received in revenue sharing back into the team.

Major League Baseball, on the other hand, has no such concerns.
In a statement released Friday night, the league absolved both teams from any wrongdoing, stating that they’ve instead complied with every measure of the current CBA.
Here’s the full statement, courtesy of MLB.com’s Adam Berry.

We do not have concerns about the Pirates’ and Marlins’ compliance with the basic agreement provisions regarding the use of revenue sharing proceeds. The Pirates have steadily increased their payroll over the years while at the same time decreasing their revenue sharing. The Marlins’ ownership purchased a team that incurred substantial financial losses the prior two seasons, and even with revenue sharing and significant expense reduction, the team is projected to lose money in 2018. The union has not informed us that it intends to file a grievance against either team.”

The league’s statement came shortly after Pirates president Frank Coonnelly made it clear that his team was not under investigation by the league.

“The Pirates are not being investigated by MLB and the Commissioner has no concerns whatsoever with the manner in which the Pirates are investing its revenue sharing receipts into building a winner. The Pirates have and will continue to invest its revenue sharing receipts in an effort to put a winning team on the field. As required by the Basic Agreement, we share with MLB and the Union each year the detail as to how our revenue sharing receipts are used to put a winning team on the field. What the detail shows is that while our revenue sharing receipts have decreased for seven consecutive seasons, our Major league payroll has more than doubled over that same period. Indeed, our revenue sharing receipts are now just a fraction of what we spend on Major League payroll, let alone all of the other dollars that we spend on scouting, player development and other baseball investments, several areas in which we are among the League leaders in spending. Thus, the Commissioner is well-equipped to address whatever ’concerns’ the Union now has over the Pirates’ effort to win.”

Both statements are pretty clear attempts to squash the issue before the MLBPA comes to a decision. Whether the MLBPA lets it go so easily is another story. Given the frustration surrounding this winter’s slow market, it seems likely they’ll want more answers before entirely moving on.

The fanbases for both teams have echoed the union’s concerns. There are even petitions out there aimed at pushing Derek Jeter and the ownership groups in both Miami and Pittsburgh out. So far this winter, the Marlins have traded their entire outfield of Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna and Christian Yelich, not to mention second baseman Dee Gordon. The Pirates have traded former MVP Andrew McCutchen and ace Gerrit Cole.
At the very least, it’s a very bad look for both teams to so forcefully bail on fringe contending teams. But the reality is surviving isn’t easy for smaller market teams. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made, and despite these tough decisions all coming so close together, they clearly have the league’s support.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 12:28:38 PM)

They're actually making me see some things Bore-Ass's way.
I see he turned out some media ripping the way the league allows teams to be non-competitive, and I'm starting to agree.
Like I say daily ... get the hell in or get the hell out.
If you're some trillionaire who wants the prestige of owning the local team, then spend the damn money to make your team competitive. Or get the hell out.




ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 12:36:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

How much are the Brewers paying Lorenzo Cain?

They also traded 4 prospects for Yelich. What a day for them!

Kerry, are you pretty excited about these moves for the Brewers?

I'd maybe be a Brewers fan if I lived halfway between the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. They want to compete!


How can any player be worth four players? This sounds like a Herschel Walker trade.


This Cain signing will be like ALex Gordon 2.0[:'(]




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 12:37:53 PM)

Some of these owners should just fess up they're in it to make money.
Pirates depleted their system going for it. But never went far enough, so they now tear it down.
Really disappointed in Jeter run Marlins. Those fans get run through this develop/dump situation far too much.




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 1:37:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

This is why the Pohlads don't go balls-out.
They support each other including fire sales of teams.

MLB has no concerns about Marlins and Pirates cutting payroll

The Miami Marlins and Pittsburgh Pirates have come under fire recently after electing to sell off many of their core players in trades, rather than spend money to keep themselves competitive.
Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan reported this week that the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA) is even currently weighing the option of filing grievances against those two clubs, with the charge being they’ve ignored rules in the collective bargain agreement that require them to put money received in revenue sharing back into the team.

Major League Baseball, on the other hand, has no such concerns.
In a statement released Friday night, the league absolved both teams from any wrongdoing, stating that they’ve instead complied with every measure of the current CBA.
Here’s the full statement, courtesy of MLB.com’s Adam Berry.

We do not have concerns about the Pirates’ and Marlins’ compliance with the basic agreement provisions regarding the use of revenue sharing proceeds. The Pirates have steadily increased their payroll over the years while at the same time decreasing their revenue sharing. The Marlins’ ownership purchased a team that incurred substantial financial losses the prior two seasons, and even with revenue sharing and significant expense reduction, the team is projected to lose money in 2018. The union has not informed us that it intends to file a grievance against either team.”

The league’s statement came shortly after Pirates president Frank Coonnelly made it clear that his team was not under investigation by the league.

“The Pirates are not being investigated by MLB and the Commissioner has no concerns whatsoever with the manner in which the Pirates are investing its revenue sharing receipts into building a winner. The Pirates have and will continue to invest its revenue sharing receipts in an effort to put a winning team on the field. As required by the Basic Agreement, we share with MLB and the Union each year the detail as to how our revenue sharing receipts are used to put a winning team on the field. What the detail shows is that while our revenue sharing receipts have decreased for seven consecutive seasons, our Major league payroll has more than doubled over that same period. Indeed, our revenue sharing receipts are now just a fraction of what we spend on Major League payroll, let alone all of the other dollars that we spend on scouting, player development and other baseball investments, several areas in which we are among the League leaders in spending. Thus, the Commissioner is well-equipped to address whatever ’concerns’ the Union now has over the Pirates’ effort to win.”

Both statements are pretty clear attempts to squash the issue before the MLBPA comes to a decision. Whether the MLBPA lets it go so easily is another story. Given the frustration surrounding this winter’s slow market, it seems likely they’ll want more answers before entirely moving on.

The fanbases for both teams have echoed the union’s concerns. There are even petitions out there aimed at pushing Derek Jeter and the ownership groups in both Miami and Pittsburgh out. So far this winter, the Marlins have traded their entire outfield of Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna and Christian Yelich, not to mention second baseman Dee Gordon. The Pirates have traded former MVP Andrew McCutchen and ace Gerrit Cole.
At the very least, it’s a very bad look for both teams to so forcefully bail on fringe contending teams. But the reality is surviving isn’t easy for smaller market teams. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made, and despite these tough decisions all coming so close together, they clearly have the league’s support.



What exactly is the Marlins agenda? It sounds as if that franchise is preparing to be moved elsewhere whether under current ownership or new ownership is yet uncertain.




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 1:39:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

How much are the Brewers paying Lorenzo Cain?

They also traded 4 prospects for Yelich. What a day for them!

Kerry, are you pretty excited about these moves for the Brewers?

I'd maybe be a Brewers fan if I lived halfway between the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. They want to compete!


How can any player be worth four players? This sounds like a Herschel Walker trade.


This Cain signing will be like ALex Gordon 2.0[:'(]


Remember when Matt was all-in with signing Gordon to play LF for the Twins? Glad we dodged that turd.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 1:41:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

How much are the Brewers paying Lorenzo Cain?

They also traded 4 prospects for Yelich. What a day for them!

Kerry, are you pretty excited about these moves for the Brewers?

I'd maybe be a Brewers fan if I lived halfway between the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. They want to compete!


How can any player be worth four players? This sounds like a Herschel Walker trade.


This Cain signing will be like ALex Gordon 2.0[:'(]


Remember when Matt was all-in with signing Gordon to play LF for the Twins? Glad we dodged that turd.

I think I was into it before anyone.
But .. in truth that was BEFORE he had a good run in KC.
They wanted badly to cut him, wanted anyone to take him.
We declined, and then watched him win a WS ring, and proceed to kill us for 5 years.




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 1:42:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

This is why the Pohlads don't go balls-out.
They support each other including fire sales of teams.

MLB has no concerns about Marlins and Pirates cutting payroll

The Miami Marlins and Pittsburgh Pirates have come under fire recently after electing to sell off many of their core players in trades, rather than spend money to keep themselves competitive.
Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan reported this week that the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA) is even currently weighing the option of filing grievances against those two clubs, with the charge being they’ve ignored rules in the collective bargain agreement that require them to put money received in revenue sharing back into the team.

Major League Baseball, on the other hand, has no such concerns.
In a statement released Friday night, the league absolved both teams from any wrongdoing, stating that they’ve instead complied with every measure of the current CBA.
Here’s the full statement, courtesy of MLB.com’s Adam Berry.

We do not have concerns about the Pirates’ and Marlins’ compliance with the basic agreement provisions regarding the use of revenue sharing proceeds. The Pirates have steadily increased their payroll over the years while at the same time decreasing their revenue sharing. The Marlins’ ownership purchased a team that incurred substantial financial losses the prior two seasons, and even with revenue sharing and significant expense reduction, the team is projected to lose money in 2018. The union has not informed us that it intends to file a grievance against either team.”

The league’s statement came shortly after Pirates president Frank Coonnelly made it clear that his team was not under investigation by the league.

“The Pirates are not being investigated by MLB and the Commissioner has no concerns whatsoever with the manner in which the Pirates are investing its revenue sharing receipts into building a winner. The Pirates have and will continue to invest its revenue sharing receipts in an effort to put a winning team on the field. As required by the Basic Agreement, we share with MLB and the Union each year the detail as to how our revenue sharing receipts are used to put a winning team on the field. What the detail shows is that while our revenue sharing receipts have decreased for seven consecutive seasons, our Major league payroll has more than doubled over that same period. Indeed, our revenue sharing receipts are now just a fraction of what we spend on Major League payroll, let alone all of the other dollars that we spend on scouting, player development and other baseball investments, several areas in which we are among the League leaders in spending. Thus, the Commissioner is well-equipped to address whatever ’concerns’ the Union now has over the Pirates’ effort to win.”

Both statements are pretty clear attempts to squash the issue before the MLBPA comes to a decision. Whether the MLBPA lets it go so easily is another story. Given the frustration surrounding this winter’s slow market, it seems likely they’ll want more answers before entirely moving on.

The fanbases for both teams have echoed the union’s concerns. There are even petitions out there aimed at pushing Derek Jeter and the ownership groups in both Miami and Pittsburgh out. So far this winter, the Marlins have traded their entire outfield of Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna and Christian Yelich, not to mention second baseman Dee Gordon. The Pirates have traded former MVP Andrew McCutchen and ace Gerrit Cole.
At the very least, it’s a very bad look for both teams to so forcefully bail on fringe contending teams. But the reality is surviving isn’t easy for smaller market teams. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made, and despite these tough decisions all coming so close together, they clearly have the league’s support.


Plus, there's this......

The Royals and Astros, your 2 most recent WS Champions, did the exact same thing to build a winner.




Steve Lentz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/28/2018 2:54:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

How much are the Brewers paying Lorenzo Cain?

They also traded 4 prospects for Yelich. What a day for them!

Kerry, are you pretty excited about these moves for the Brewers?

I'd maybe be a Brewers fan if I lived halfway between the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. They want to compete!


How can any player be worth four players? This sounds like a Herschel Walker trade.


This Cain signing will be like ALex Gordon 2.0[:'(]


Remember when Matt was all-in with signing Gordon to play LF for the Twins? Glad we dodged that turd.

I think I was into it before anyone.
But .. in truth that was BEFORE he had a good run in KC.
They wanted badly to cut him, wanted anyone to take him.
We declined, and then watched him win a WS ring, and proceed to kill us for 5 years.

That's how I remember it. Gordon had his run and few played LF like he did.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/29/2018 11:47:17 AM)

Ryan Braun sees all the moves his Brewers have made, and now doesn't want to move on
He's agreed to move to not only first base, but will also try second base if needed
Just wants to fit into a potent-looking offense somewhere
What a novel concept.

Better let them know they may have too many good players. I hear that's an issue in some places.




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