quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

With Case we would have drafted a QB this year or likely been in the Josh Rosen and Foles auction

Probably Foles due to Zims hatred of young QBs not named Teddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

From KG to shorten the long replies:
If we had stuck with Case we would have paid him 18 million (2 million less than Denver because we would have gotten a discount) We will never know what would have happened had we went with Case instead of Kirk. That would have saved us $10 million. What would we have done with that? We will never know.
I think it's safe to say that Kirk is better than Case, but maybe Case was a better fit for our team. It's in the past. We have Kirk. He is very talented. I think he can get the job done.

Nope
That is the contract Case received from Denver....no one knows what he asked us for and whether it was more, less or more years. So it can't be assumed that was the case. Also Zimmer wasn't even hitching his wagon to Case when he was starting so there is that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

From KG to shorten the long replies:
If we had stuck with Case we would have paid him 18 million (2 million less than Denver because we would have gotten a discount) We will never know what would have happened had we went with Case instead of Kirk. That would have saved us $10 million. What would we have done with that? We will never know.
I think it's safe to say that Kirk is better than Case, but maybe Case was a better fit for our team. It's in the past. We have Kirk. He is very talented. I think he can get the job done.

Nope
That is the contract Case received from Denver....no one knows what he asked us for and whether it was more, less or more years. So it can't be assumed that was the case. Also Zimmer wasn't even hitching his wagon to Case when he was starting so there is that.

Phil do you just want to argue? Our options were Case or Cousins. No other options had been considered according to anybody. I think it's reasonable to think that Case would have taken less to sign with us. IIRC that was reported. I threw out some reasonable conjecture that certainly isn't fact. Just my best guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

From KG to shorten the long replies:
If we had stuck with Case we would have paid him 18 million (2 million less than Denver because we would have gotten a discount) We will never know what would have happened had we went with Case instead of Kirk. That would have saved us $10 million. What would we have done with that? We will never know.
I think it's safe to say that Kirk is better than Case, but maybe Case was a better fit for our team. It's in the past. We have Kirk. He is very talented. I think he can get the job done.

Nope
That is the contract Case received from Denver....no one knows what he asked us for and whether it was more, less or more years. So it can't be assumed that was the case. Also Zimmer wasn't even hitching his wagon to Case when he was starting so there is that.

Phil do you just want to argue? Our options were Case or Cousins. No other options had been considered according to anybody. I think it's reasonable to think that Case would have taken less to sign with us. IIRC that was reported. I threw out some reasonable conjecture that certainly isn't fact. Just my best guess.

Not arguing, you have way too many assumptions.

1) that Case was going to sign for the same at MN as he did in Denver with same years & Money
2) Zimmer wanted Case as a starter
3) Case is better than or just as good as Kirk (Denver has already traded him away) plus he has journeyed thru many teams

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

From KG to shorten the long replies:
If we had stuck with Case we would have paid him 18 million (2 million less than Denver because we would have gotten a discount) We will never know what would have happened had we went with Case instead of Kirk. That would have saved us $10 million. What would we have done with that? We will never know.
I think it's safe to say that Kirk is better than Case, but maybe Case was a better fit for our team. It's in the past. We have Kirk. He is very talented. I think he can get the job done.

Nope
That is the contract Case received from Denver....no one knows what he asked us for and whether it was more, less or more years. So it can't be assumed that was the case. Also Zimmer wasn't even hitching his wagon to Case when he was starting so there is that.

Phil do you just want to argue? Our options were Case or Cousins. No other options had been considered according to anybody. I think it's reasonable to think that Case would have taken less to sign with us. IIRC that was reported. I threw out some reasonable conjecture that certainly isn't fact. Just my best guess.

Not arguing, you have way too many assumptions.

1) that Case was going to sign for the same at MN as he did in Denver with same years & Money
2) Zimmer wanted Case as a starter
3) Case is better than or just as good as Kirk (Denver has already traded him away) plus he has journeyed thru many teams

1. I think a team friendly deal is a reasonable assumption, certainly not fact
2. reasonable assumption, almost considered fact
3. no reason to believe Case is better, not saying Cousins is hall of famer, but certainly better. a discussion on whether kirk is worth 28 million is legit, but has been covered MANY times


it is what it is, the Vikings made reasonable decisions for what was available at the time. Will it work out? who knows

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...

I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...

The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....

Who would you rather have coach this team? Who would you rather have at QB? What other GM do you want? Which kicker would you rather have here? If you are going to throw the negative spaghetti against the wall you better have ways to fix what you feel ills the team.

RAGnarok we haven't played one game yet and you are already done for this year.

He's simply in mid-season form. Dude plays all his starters in all pre-season games. Pedal to the metal!

Speaking of which, where is cpa-in-a-can?

You guys make me laugh... live on an opinion board yet if the flavor and narrative of another poster isnt exactly to your linking its time to ridicule and name call...

All good with me, I got roasted for my comments from start to mid season on Quirk Cousins and then it just wasnt even worth talking about as the season flushed away all the way to the stinker that was the Bears game... But no worries, I will call it as I see it again this season and Im sure you and others will enjoy my contributions to this fine board where everyone has a voice no matter how sane or skewed it may be...

Im ready for some Viking's Football!

I see it going one of two ways this year... either on the plus side of 10 and 6 or on the negative side of 6 and 10 with a total flame out by the second year signal caller...

I may make you laugh but I did ask who you would rather have at QB, Coach, and Kicker. How is that ridiculing or name calling? I get asked the same questions if I am more positive than some like...

Because I mention possible short comings and potential flaws in this years team to be of concern I now am required to provide a list of better alternatives like this is some plug and play fantasy football joke? Now that is laughable...

I will mention though that have an eye on Case with Skins and Gruden and Cavenaugh's system to see his game this year... As well I have some attention on the repairing of Foles and Flipp in Jacksonville with thought that may have been the better QB option for us with Flipp last year, but wasnt going to happen...

Like most things, it is what it is, we are who we are... not changing until we change the GM...

And there in lies the heart of debate... WHO SHOULD BE OUR NEXT GM when this regime and QB flame out.... Cap will be an issue so a GM with college ranks smarts as well as past player NFL experience would be nice, even possibly a past Viking player would instill some pride... How about a player that ALMOST got there with the Vikes... Someone with high IQ in life and football... Robert Smith type of man for GM would be my want... Younger mind who connects with players and has coaching connection hires as well...

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök
The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...
I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...
The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....

Who would you rather have coach this team? Who would you rather have at QB? What other GM do you want? Which kicker would you rather have here? If you are going to throw the negative spaghetti against the wall you better have ways to fix what you feel ills the team.
RAGnarok we haven't played one game yet and you are already done for this year.

He's simply in mid-season form. Dude plays all his starters in all pre-season games. Pedal to the metal!
Speaking of which, where is cpa-in-a-can?

You guys make me laugh... live on an opinion board yet if the flavor and narrative of another poster isnt exactly to your linking its time to ridicule and name call...
All good with me, I got roasted for my comments from start to mid season on Quirk Cousins and then it just wasnt even worth talking about as the season flushed away all the way to the stinker that was the Bears game... But no worries, I will call it as I see it again this season and Im sure you and others will enjoy my contributions to this fine board where everyone has a voice no matter how sane or skewed it may be...
Im ready for some Viking's Football!
I see it going one of two ways this year... either on the plus side of 10 and 6 or on the negative side of 6 and 10 with a total flame out by the second year signal caller...

I may make you laugh but I did ask who you would rather have at QB, Coach, and Kicker. How is that ridiculing or name calling? I get asked the same questions if I am more positive than some like...

Because I mention possible short comings and potential flaws in this years team to be of concern I now am required to provide a list of better alternatives like this is some plug and play fantasy football joke? Now that is laughable...
I will mention though that have an eye on Case with Skins and Gruden and Cavenaugh's system to see his game this year... As well I have some attention on the repairing of Foles and Flipp in Jacksonville with thought that may have been the better QB option for us with Flipp last year, but wasnt going to happen...
Like most things, it is what it is, we are who we are... not changing until we change the GM...
And there in lies the heart of debate... WHO SHOULD BE OUR NEXT GM when this regime and QB flame out.... Cap will be an issue so a GM with college ranks smarts as well as past player NFL experience would be nice, even possibly a past Viking player would instill some pride... How about a player that ALMOST got there with the Vikes... Someone with high IQ in life and football... Robert Smith type of man for GM would be my want... Younger mind who connects with players and has coaching connection hires as well...

Nope you don't have to provide the answers but I was far from ridiculing. I have been on record many times saying Cousins is better than Case which he is and was the most available QB. We were real close to getting Foles when he ended up in KC and then Philly as he was more comfortable with the coach. I am very careful for what I wish for when it comes to GM and coach as I see a GM who has drafted and acquired talent as well as any GM. It is all about getting over the hump....Shurmur at OC helped get us to a point but Case and the Oline problems left us limited 2 years ago as did the 2 years prior to that. I believe the same is happening with Kubiak---helping us figure out the oline and running game to protect our defense and improve the offense.

Yes I agree on the kicking game problems as it cost us the playoffs last year and a postseason win 3-4 years prior. Walsh missing that short kick has stuck with Zimmer since and he needs to shake it somehow.

The biggest issue I have with our GM is our oline and backup QBs. Spielman has finally seemed to get the oline picture but going into a season with Mannion and/or Sloter as the backup is an issue for me albeit some think Sloter can be a 2. Just as when we had Sean Hill backup up Teddy and no true backup for Ponder and needing to start Joe Webb in a playoff game.

Good teams have a good solution at backup QB. We got lucky for one year with Case but he isn't going to win a outdoor playoff game in the cold and wind....Kirk can if he can figure it out.

Ignoring Kirk Cousins inability to play with a sub par O line and flame out in certain games without explanation is far more the reason for lack of play offs last year than the kicking game... relax, plenty of blame to go round, D was porous at key times in games, O line decisions questionable, Flipp as an O coord was incorrect match to Cousins skill set, and Cousins seemingly psychological aversion to big games in the spotlight are huge issues why.

Have we addressed all those issues for this year? hmmm... I hope so!

Now your Case vs Cousins stuff for me is one thing... did Kirk get us to the playoffs and win a game? Case did... Kirk, if he doesnt this year, he has been a huge mistake and a failure in our system at what costs we anteed when we went all in on the Kirk Cousins gamble last year...

Kicking game has been mismanaged to this point, Kirk Cousins is the mush bigger variable and I sure hope as you say "Kirk can if he can figure it out" is just that simple...

So you would have preferred to stay with Case?

Not me, we saw the maximum we could get from Case and it wasn't enough

Is the maximum we can get from Cousins enough?

Not looking promising, but it was the correct move at the time

We will see

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök
The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...
I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...
The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....

Who would you rather have coach this team? Who would you rather have at QB? What other GM do you want? Which kicker would you rather have here? If you are going to throw the negative spaghetti against the wall you better have ways to fix what you feel ills the team.
RAGnarok we haven't played one game yet and you are already done for this year.

He's simply in mid-season form. Dude plays all his starters in all pre-season games. Pedal to the metal!
Speaking of which, where is cpa-in-a-can?

You guys make me laugh... live on an opinion board yet if the flavor and narrative of another poster isnt exactly to your linking its time to ridicule and name call...
All good with me, I got roasted for my comments from start to mid season on Quirk Cousins and then it just wasnt even worth talking about as the season flushed away all the way to the stinker that was the Bears game... But no worries, I will call it as I see it again this season and Im sure you and others will enjoy my contributions to this fine board where everyone has a voice no matter how sane or skewed it may be...
Im ready for some Viking's Football!
I see it going one of two ways this year... either on the plus side of 10 and 6 or on the negative side of 6 and 10 with a total flame out by the second year signal caller...

I may make you laugh but I did ask who you would rather have at QB, Coach, and Kicker. How is that ridiculing or name calling? I get asked the same questions if I am more positive than some like...

Because I mention possible short comings and potential flaws in this years team to be of concern I now am required to provide a list of better alternatives like this is some plug and play fantasy football joke? Now that is laughable...
I will mention though that have an eye on Case with Skins and Gruden and Cavenaugh's system to see his game this year... As well I have some attention on the repairing of Foles and Flipp in Jacksonville with thought that may have been the better QB option for us with Flipp last year, but wasnt going to happen...
Like most things, it is what it is, we are who we are... not changing until we change the GM...
And there in lies the heart of debate... WHO SHOULD BE OUR NEXT GM when this regime and QB flame out.... Cap will be an issue so a GM with college ranks smarts as well as past player NFL experience would be nice, even possibly a past Viking player would instill some pride... How about a player that ALMOST got there with the Vikes... Someone with high IQ in life and football... Robert Smith type of man for GM would be my want... Younger mind who connects with players and has coaching connection hires as well...

Nope you don't have to provide the answers but I was far from ridiculing. I have been on record many times saying Cousins is better than Case which he is and was the most available QB. We were real close to getting Foles when he ended up in KC and then Philly as he was more comfortable with the coach. I am very careful for what I wish for when it comes to GM and coach as I see a GM who has drafted and acquired talent as well as any GM. It is all about getting over the hump....Shurmur at OC helped get us to a point but Case and the Oline problems left us limited 2 years ago as did the 2 years prior to that. I believe the same is happening with Kubiak---helping us figure out the oline and running game to protect our defense and improve the offense.

Yes I agree on the kicking game problems as it cost us the playoffs last year and a postseason win 3-4 years prior. Walsh missing that short kick has stuck with Zimmer since and he needs to shake it somehow.

The biggest issue I have with our GM is our oline and backup QBs. Spielman has finally seemed to get the oline picture but going into a season with Mannion and/or Sloter as the backup is an issue for me albeit some think Sloter can be a 2. Just as when we had Sean Hill backup up Teddy and no true backup for Ponder and needing to start Joe Webb in a playoff game.

Good teams have a good solution at backup QB. We got lucky for one year with Case but he isn't going to win a outdoor playoff game in the cold and wind....Kirk can if he can figure it out.

Ignoring Kirk Cousins inability to play with a sub par O line and flame out in certain games without explanation is far more the reason for lack of play offs last year than the kicking game... relax, plenty of blame to go round, D was porous at key times in games, O line decisions questionable, Flipp as an O coord was incorrect match to Cousins skill set, and Cousins seemingly psychological aversion to big games in the spotlight are huge issues why.

Have we addressed all those issues for this year? hmmm... I hope so!

Now your Case vs Cousins stuff for me is one thing... did Kirk get us to the playoffs and win a game? Case did... Kirk, if he doesnt this year, he has been a huge mistake and a failure in our system at what costs we anteed when we went all in on the Kirk Cousins gamble last year...

Kicking game has been mismanaged to this point, Kirk Cousins is the mush bigger variable and I sure hope as you say "Kirk can if he can figure it out" is just that simple...

quote:

ORIGINAL: ambear

We have enough talent on both sides of the ball to make some noise. What really chaps me is when we get out coached. To me that is a sign of a failed ball club.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: ambear

We have enough talent on both sides of the ball to make some noise. What really chaps me is when we get out coached. To me that is a sign of a failed ball club.

That does happen. In the nfc conference game it seemed like the eagles knew what we were going to do before we did. But, I have some hope that our new offensive brain trust will be able to call plays without much interference from the guy in charge. Kubiak and Co. have a good track record of getting results, and I like the fact that we upgraded the oline. We'll see how it works out, but I have faith.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: ambear

We have enough talent on both sides of the ball to make some noise. What really chaps me is when we get out coached. To me that is a sign of a failed ball club.

That does happen. In the nfc conference game it seemed like the eagles knew what we were going to do before we did. But, I have some hope that our new offensive brain trust will be able to call plays without much interference from the guy in charge. Kubiak and Co. have a good track record of getting results, and I like the fact that we upgraded the oline. We'll see how it works out, but I have faith.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Also, this might mean nothing, but I don't like that he got really fat. Mr. Hard Nose, Old School, Mr. Discipline, got fat.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to sell discipline when you demonstrate none.

I think of Andy Ried, Mike McCarthy's later Packer years, Denny Green. Has any fat HC won a Super Bowl ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Also, this might mean nothing, but I don't like that he got really fat. Mr. Hard Nose, Old School, Mr. Discipline, got fat.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to sell discipline when you demonstrate none.

I think of Andy Ried, Mike McCarthy's later Packer years, Denny Green. Has any fat HC won a Super Bowl ?

Hank Stram, John Madden.

This discussion is silly.

Risk blindness in one eye, says the Vikings winning a Super Bowl is more important to him than the vision in that eye.

But he's got no self discipline.

BTW I hadn't noticed that he got fat. Guess I haven't seen him in his speedo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Also, this might mean nothing, but I don't like that he got really fat. Mr. Hard Nose, Old School, Mr. Discipline, got fat.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to sell discipline when you demonstrate none.

I think of Andy Ried, Mike McCarthy's later Packer years, Denny Green. Has any fat HC won a Super Bowl ?

Hank Stram, John Madden.

This discussion is silly.

Risk blindness in one eye, says the Vikings winning a Super Bowl is more important to him than the vision in that eye.

But he's got no self discipline.

BTW I hadn't noticed that he got fat. Guess I haven't seen him in his speedo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Also, this might mean nothing, but I don't like that he got really fat. Mr. Hard Nose, Old School, Mr. Discipline, got fat.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to sell discipline when you demonstrate none.

I think of Andy Ried, Mike McCarthy's later Packer years, Denny Green. Has any fat HC won a Super Bowl ?

Hank Stram, John Madden.

This discussion is silly.

Risk blindness in one eye, says the Vikings winning a Super Bowl is more important to him than the vision in that eye.

But he's got no self discipline.

BTW I hadn't noticed that he got fat. Guess I haven't seen him in his speedo.

You seriously haven't noticed the weight gain?

As far as the speedo, that's interesting that you mention that.

Risking blindness in one eye was a great story. Pretty sure he had top-notch medical care.
Rather doubtful that he was actually going to lose his vision because of football.
I guess Vrabel is still tougher, because he said he would cut off his genitals to win a Super Bowl.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

This is surely going to get a rise out of Jason. I don't think Zimmer has figured out how to be a HC. And of course I don't agree with his announced football philosophy. We will run and stop the run. Wow! That's some genius stuff. Passing and stopping the pass is less important?

Zimmer name-drops Parcells often. Hell, he did it this preseason during a press conference. One thing Zimmer and his mentor have in common is their disdain for kickers. It shows.

Part of the reason why just about anybody could be our #3 WR this season is because Treadwell blocked the possible development of other WR's on the roster. And, probably prevented us from being aggressive in acquiring a good one.

Zimmer's conservative approach to football on game day is really strange. We actually have kicked medium-range Field Goals, down by 20+, in the second half, with the playoffs on the line.

I don't recall any other NFL HC burning through OC's like Zimmer has. I definitely don't recall a successful HC throwing his OC under the bus to the media. Seriously, you don't know how to manage yourself, let alone the team?

Also, this might mean nothing, but I don't like that he got really fat. Mr. Hard Nose, Old School, Mr. Discipline, got fat.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to sell discipline when you demonstrate none.

His job should absolutely be on the line. This is an incredibly elite position. Perform. Win.

New stadium. Owner willing to throw money at everything. Seems like a decent gig.

We better hope that a 3rd WR emerges. We better hope that Cook stays healthy, because Mattison is barely a NFL RB.
Blasingame is the real deal. How long will it take for us to realize that? Log jammed behind Ham.

We still believe that Rudolph is a top TE in the League.

It's difficult to even speak about the Mannion/Sloter stuff.

You think the players don't know who is good and deserving? Of course they do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

This is surely going to get a rise out of Jason. I don't think Zimmer has figured out how to be a HC. And of course I don't agree with his announced football philosophy. We will run and stop the run. Wow! That's some genius stuff. Passing and stopping the pass is less important?

Zimmer name-drops Parcells often. Hell, he did it this preseason during a press conference. One thing Zimmer and his mentor have in common is their disdain for kickers. It shows.

Part of the reason why just about anybody could be our #3 WR this season is because Treadwell blocked the possible development of other WR's on the roster. And, probably prevented us from being aggressive in acquiring a good one.

Zimmer's conservative approach to football on game day is really strange. We actually have kicked medium-range Field Goals, down by 20+, in the second half, with the playoffs on the line.

I don't recall any other NFL HC burning through OC's like Zimmer has. I definitely don't recall a successful HC throwing his OC under the bus to the media. Seriously, you don't know how to manage yourself, let alone the team?

Also, this might mean nothing, but I don't like that he got really fat. Mr. Hard Nose, Old School, Mr. Discipline, got fat.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to sell discipline when you demonstrate none.

His job should absolutely be on the line. This is an incredibly elite position. Perform. Win.

New stadium. Owner willing to throw money at everything. Seems like a decent gig.

We better hope that a 3rd WR emerges. We better hope that Cook stays healthy, because Mattison is barely a NFL RB.
Blasingame is the real deal. How long will it take for us to realize that? Log jammed behind Ham.

We still believe that Rudolph is a top TE in the League.

It's difficult to even speak about the Mannion/Sloter stuff.

You think the players don't know who is good and deserving? Of course they do.

Sums it up for me in a nutshell. I've been pretty sour on him since the 5-0 collapse. 2017 was really fun though. I believe that was his only chance to even sniff a superbowl and we got totally punked. I'm still going to enjoy the season through all the ups and downs.