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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 3:11:56 PM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
Status: offline

Oooooooh, SteveO went there ………….

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Post #: 3176

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:03:38 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Post #: 3177

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:09:49 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45487
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

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Post #: 3178

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:19:03 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

Diggs 1 catch 4 yards! Against a poor defense. That sucked!

That is unbelievable.

Unforgivable.

It is beyond unbelievable since Diggs was targeted four or five times per game his first couple seasons with that flanker screen or sideways pass forward about one to three yards allowing Diggs to make a move on the CB and turn the catch into a 10-20 yard play with most of the YAC. You can complete that pass all day long as the defense will give it to you just like a Dalvin Cook three yard run.

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Post #: 3179

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:21:25 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

I think Hunter, Barr, Griffen, and Smith are plenty intimidating....doesn't matter if your two high paid corners can't cover though.

Silver Lining in yesterday was how well certain backups played....Odin, Abdullah, TREAD???

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Post #: 3180

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:22:56 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

I think in todays NFL there is so much attention and resources of opponents spent on researching tendencies and scheming to take away you strenghts, or avoid them well exploiting your weakest links.

Zimmer is living in the past, stubborn and old school in his every way. There is good chance we are running much of the same schemes year after year under Zimmer on D and as teams learn how to exploit the holes the tape gets out.

I think we are seeing a combination of understanding how to play a Zimmer D in league circles along with the fact the type of players Zimmer covets and coaches up are now a liability with new rules against roughing and PI that can be called at every turn.

Zimmer and his game that got him where he is has become a dinosaur and in todays NFL, its evolve, adapt, or DIE...

Someone said it best here...

Sorry Zimm but the tar pits are calling...

< Message edited by Ragnarök -- 11/4/2019 4:25:55 PM >

Post #: 3181

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:26:04 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Warren Sharp
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Veri@SharpFootball

More
Not great, Minnesota:
After losing to KC, the Vikings are still WINLESS in 14 games outdoors on the road vs a team with a winning record since 2014.
0-13-1 and lose by 10 ppg.
They are also 0-13-1 ATS in these games.

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Post #: 3182

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:27:37 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

I think in todays NFL there is so much attention and resources of opponents spent on researching tendencies and scheming to take away you strenghts, or avoid them well exploiting your weakest links.
Zimmer is living in the past, stubborn and old school in his every way. There is good chance we are running much of the same schemes year after year under Zimmer on D and as teams learn how to exploit the holes the tape gets out.
I think we are seeing a combination of understanding how to play a Zimmer D in league circles along with the fact the type of players Zimmer covets and coaches up are now a liability with new rules against roughing and PI that can be called at every turn.
Zimmer and his game that got him where he is has become a dinosaur and in todays NFL, its evolve, adapt, or DIE...
Someone said it best here...
Sorry Zimm but the tar pits are calling...

Do you think this is the Zimmer D or Rhodes and Waynes stinking up the place? What do you do if you are Zimmer with Rhodes and Waynes there old Zimmer D defiant one?

The problem isn't the D...look across the wins and losses.....Atlanta (we shut down their WR), GB---we couldnt' stop Adams, Chicago---We couldn't stop Robinson, KC--we couldn't stop Hill. That is on our high paid CBs not making plays.

McLaurin, Jefferies, and Jones ate us up in wins also. I would have benched both Rhodes and Waynes for Hill/Hughes which still might happen.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/4/2019 4:34:26 PM >

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Post #: 3183

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:37:49 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

I think in todays NFL there is so much attention and resources of opponents spent on researching tendencies and scheming to take away you strenghts, or avoid them well exploiting your weakest links.
Zimmer is living in the past, stubborn and old school in his every way. There is good chance we are running much of the same schemes year after year under Zimmer on D and as teams learn how to exploit the holes the tape gets out.
I think we are seeing a combination of understanding how to play a Zimmer D in league circles along with the fact the type of players Zimmer covets and coaches up are now a liability with new rules against roughing and PI that can be called at every turn.
Zimmer and his game that got him where he is has become a dinosaur and in todays NFL, its evolve, adapt, or DIE...
Someone said it best here...
Sorry Zimm but the tar pits are calling...

Do you think this is the Zimmer D or Rhodes and Waynes stinking up the place? What do you do if you are Zimmer with Rhodes and Waynes there old Zimmer D defiant one?

The problem isn't the D...look across the wins and losses.....Atlanta (we shut down their WR), GB---we couldnt' stop Adams, Chicago---We couldn't stop Robinson, KC--we couldn't stop Hill. That is on our high paid CBs not making plays.

We are getting no push up the middle or stopping the run up the gut can be a liability.
True the DBs are a liability that most shows itself but its glaring because the others parts are lacking in their scheme and play as well...
The Soft zone play and the coverage in center field is sorely lacking with time after time questioning who blew their assignments.
Certain types of play is an achiles heel for a Zimmer D, we all know what I am talking about, and its not going away.
Once the PI on DB came to forefront this year with the BS review things its been super scrutinized to the point they say the Zebras in prep are watching tape of teams DBs to know tendencies to watch for, in my eyes, that just leads to further unwaranted scrutiny of certain DBs and Im not defending Rhodes play but he isnt getting away with his game any longer and its become a glaring liability...

Post #: 3184

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:43:35 PM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2082
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

To be honest this was my biggest worry heading into the season along with the OLine. Can they get back near that 2017 level. I worried about the DLine but they've been quite good, I didn't see the regression from the secondary especially with Hughes coming back and Mac improving. It's not like guys are wide open either, QBs just seem to be delivering great passes and the DBs just can't make plays on the ball.

Post #: 3185

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 4:45:18 PM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2082
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Warren Sharp
‏
Veri@SharpFootball

More
Not great, Minnesota:
After losing to KC, the Vikings are still WINLESS in 14 games outdoors on the road vs a team with a winning record since 2014.
0-13-1 and lose by 10 ppg.
They are also 0-13-1 ATS in these games.

Spread went up to 5.5 and the Chiefs were 3.00 to win SU, thought both were excellent bets.

Post #: 3186

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 7:14:46 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Warren Sharp
‏
Veri@SharpFootball

More
Not great, Minnesota:
After losing to KC, the Vikings are still WINLESS in 14 games outdoors on the road vs a team with a winning record since 2014.
0-13-1 and lose by 10 ppg.
They are also 0-13-1 ATS in these games.

That is amazing as the Twins futility in the playoffs vs. the Yankees.

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Post #: 3187

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 8:33:20 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Arrowhead is pretty amazing, and their fans were a lot of fun. Crazy number of MN fans.

I haven't had a chance to watch the All Pro, tape so this completely off memory in no particular order.

We looked FANTASTIC in hurry up. Chiefs had no answer. I was so frustrated we kept going away from it.

Cousins first few throws were into the wind. I was near the top of the stadium 40 yard line on visitors side, don't know what it was like on the field. Gusting wind, I have windburn today. Came from all directions. In real time - I thought he was misjudging the wind.

Hill is blazing fast. When Moore released that ball, I instantly thought it was way overthrown. For Hill to catch that was stunning. Conversely- when Cousins let it go on the deep one to Diggs, it looked like a completion off Cousin's hand.

The timing of the penalties were killers for us. Bradbury's penalty looked weak. Kline's illegal hands to the face was on a third down. Both negated positive plays, with Kline's penalty wiping out a 3rd down pickup.

Kansas City has the best group of skill players I think we face. Watson, Hill, Kelce bailed out Moore time and time again.

I HATE our defense in long down and distance. Always seems the same, 15-20 yard gain right down the f****** middle of the field. With no pressure.

Putting MAC on Kelce was freaking moronic. After the first completion, to not make a change? A coach should be fired for that kind of stupidity.

Chris Jones dominated our line.

Cousins not knowing where the g&& d&&& first down marker is inexcusable/bush league. Killed a nice drive and a chance to get points.

The missed extra point sucked the energy out of the stadium (for vikings fans). HUGE miss. Chiefs couldn't have tied the game with the 54 yarder otherwise. The 91 yard TD run also gave the fans and Chiefs new life.

Playing calling by Stef on those last two drives was atrocious. Simply atrocious.

What the hell happened on Zimmer calling a time out? Confusing in real time to say the least. Looked like Griff had a free run at Moore.

I see Giants are Boys leading 12-10. I still like our team. I'm not ready to quit on them yet. 1 game back from the almighty Packers. I think there is a lot of talent. We caused two fumbles that we didn't recover that would have ended the game.

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Post #: 3188

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 9:10:52 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

I forgot the 3rd down run that was called a first down happened right in front of me. OBVIOUS it was short. Me, my brothers, and every other Viking fan were jumping up and down to sprint to the line and hike. Even to run a freaking QB sneak would have been better than what they did.

Almost lost my mind on that one too.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 3189

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 9:26:19 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20357
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

Good report Pager! I was commenting with my buddy while watching the game that the Vikings looked well represented!

Post #: 3190

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 9:29:35 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78794
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I forgot the 3rd down run that was called a first down happened right in front of me. OBVIOUS it was short. Me, my brothers, and every other Viking fan were jumping up and down to sprint to the line and hike. Even to run a freaking QB sneak would have been better than what they did.

Almost lost my mind on that one too.

One of the weirdest things I've seen a ref do.

The official sprinted right to the exact spot where the ball got to. The exact spot. Play was well over at that point. He stopped for a full beat - just stood there right at the exact spot, and then suddenly moved a full yard to his left and decided that was now the spot.

Post #: 3191

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 9:50:39 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20357
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

Shurmer learned the wasting timeouts technique from Zimmer

Post #: 3192

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/4/2019 11:06:24 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

I hope the Vikings learned something from the game. They are a good team, but not a great one. They need to get better. They need to fix the LG problem.

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Post #: 3193

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/5/2019 6:45:14 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18009
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I forgot the 3rd down run that was called a first down happened right in front of me. OBVIOUS it was short. Me, my brothers, and every other Viking fan were jumping up and down to sprint to the line and hike. Even to run a freaking QB sneak would have been better than what they did.

Almost lost my mind on that one too.

Not hurrying to get a play off before the challenge flag was thrown showed really poor awareness.

In the end all our mistakes just added up. very winnable game that we more or less pissed it away.

Very frustrating is right.

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Post #: 3194

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/5/2019 6:48:35 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18009
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I hope the Vikings learned something from the game. They are a good team, but not a great one. They need to get better. They need to fix the LG problem.

Doubt they will. Elf doesn't get low and anchor himself worth a damn.

Getting trucked like he did and tossed around on other plays is disturbing.

Pure lack of good fundamentals.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3195

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/5/2019 7:32:49 AM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I hope the Vikings learned something from the game. They are a good team, but not a great one. They need to get better. They need to fix the LG problem.

When has this team EVER learned from a loss?

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Post #: 3196

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/5/2019 7:46:36 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

I think in todays NFL there is so much attention and resources of opponents spent on researching tendencies and scheming to take away you strenghts, or avoid them well exploiting your weakest links.

Zimmer is living in the past, stubborn and old school in his every way. There is good chance we are running much of the same schemes year after year under Zimmer on D and as teams learn how to exploit the holes the tape gets out.

I think we are seeing a combination of understanding how to play a Zimmer D in league circles along with the fact the type of players Zimmer covets and coaches up are now a liability with new rules against roughing and PI that can be called at every turn.

Zimmer and his game that got him where he is has become a dinosaur and in todays NFL, its evolve, adapt, or DIE...

Someone said it best here...

Sorry Zimm but the tar pits are calling...

There was no push up the middle? Odin was playing NT and needs to play more. The 90 yard run is what killed us the most....and it could have been nothing more than great blocking by KC on that one play....now going forward how do you fix it? I think you mix in Hughes, Hill, Hercules, Odin, and Hercules more. I don't think the scheme is the problem....our talent has diminished.

Hercules and Odin have pressured more up the middle on pass rush downs.

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Post #: 3197

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/5/2019 8:33:36 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

A secondary that can cover
A kicker who can make extra points
A punter who doesn't shank the most important punt of the game
A middle of an offensive line that doesn't kill drives with penalties and get tossed around like rag dolls
A front seven that maintains lane discipline and doesn't give up a 91 yard run.
A QB who doesn't miss open receivers.

A lot of things could have made a world of difference in that game. The result was a total team effort.

So our roster isn't that good then?

Personally, I think it is an above average, not great, roster. I don't think there is anything particularly intimidating about our defense anymore.

I think in todays NFL there is so much attention and resources of opponents spent on researching tendencies and scheming to take away you strenghts, or avoid them well exploiting your weakest links.

Zimmer is living in the past, stubborn and old school in his every way. There is good chance we are running much of the same schemes year after year under Zimmer on D and as teams learn how to exploit the holes the tape gets out.

I think we are seeing a combination of understanding how to play a Zimmer D in league circles along with the fact the type of players Zimmer covets and coaches up are now a liability with new rules against roughing and PI that can be called at every turn.

Zimmer and his game that got him where he is has become a dinosaur and in todays NFL, its evolve, adapt, or DIE...

Someone said it best here...

Sorry Zimm but the tar pits are calling...

There was no push up the middle? Odin was playing NT and needs to play more. The 90 yard run is what killed us the most....and it could have been nothing more than great blocking by KC on that one play....now going forward how do you fix it? I think you mix in Hughes, Hill, Hercules, Odin, and Hercules more. I don't think the scheme is the problem....our talent has diminished.

Hercules and Odin have pressured more up the middle on pass rush downs.

I apologize in advance, but do we have 2 Hercules or is he just so damn good that he needs to be mixed in twice?

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Post #: 3198

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/5/2019 9:03:51 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Yep my bad.

The problem with the Defense is that it is aging in spots.....Rhodes, Joseph, and to a lesser extent Smith. This isn't a scheme issue.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3199

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/5/2019 11:17:11 AM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Yep my bad.

The problem with the Defense is that it is aging in spots.....Rhodes, Joseph, and to a lesser extent Smith. This isn't a scheme issue.

Worse, the age spots are where the money is invested. Invest in players in long-term contracts and you eventually get little return on your investment.

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Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3200