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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 9:19:13 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9568
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4226

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 9:29:17 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Why does it often take a half for adjustments to be made and sometimes never get made?

Too many coaches to count with tablets and headsets but seemingly they can’t see it and react.

Post #: 4227

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 9:39:53 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

PFF ranks Eric Wilson #16 of all LBs in the league in run defense. Take it for what it's worth. They rank Kendricks #4 overall, Wilson #13 overall, and Barr #97 overall. Should have let Barr go when he was already going.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4228

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 10:06:52 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

On one play I saw Barr get manhandled by DK the sea wr.

Zim seems to have a love affair with Barr and Rhodes

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4229

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 10:07:08 AM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Why does it often take a half for adjustments to be made and sometimes never get made?

Too many coaches to count with tablets and headsets but seemingly they can’t see it and react.

I almost lost my mind. Down 34 to 17, extra lineman in and the Vikes are playing two deep safeties.

We don't seem to mind a death by paper-cuts.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4230

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 10:30:42 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Why does it often take a half for adjustments to be made and sometimes never get made?

Too many coaches to count with tablets and headsets but seemingly they can’t see it and react.

I almost lost my mind. Down 34 to 17, extra lineman in and the Vikes are playing two deep safeties.

We don't seem to mind a death by paper-cuts.

Making matters worse - the second we put our safety #22 on the line of scrimmage they burned us (#29) for a bomb TD. Pete Carroll had done his homework and his offense was ready to take what we gave.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4231

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 11:15:24 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

On one play I saw Barr get manhandled by DK the sea wr.

Zim seems to have a love affair with Barr and Rhodes

When is the last time a starter lost his spot to a backup for any reason other than injury/suspension? How many times ever under Zimmer?

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4232

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 12:03:43 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Why does it often take a half for adjustments to be made and sometimes never get made?

Too many coaches to count with tablets and headsets but seemingly they can’t see it and react.

I almost lost my mind. Down 34 to 17, extra lineman in and the Vikes are playing two deep safeties.

We don't seem to mind a death by paper-cuts.

Making matters worse - the second we put our safety #22 on the line of scrimmage they burned us (#29) for a bomb TD. Pete Carroll had done his homework and his offense was ready to take what we gave.

So ... Carol outcoaches Zimmer by using an extra lineman against our 2-deep Safety approach but the minute we change out of our 2-deep safety approach we get burned.

The def gameplan seemed odd to me at first but IMO indicated that we had more confidence in offense than our ability to shut down their run attack without exposing our secondary against whirling dervish Wilson. I would say going into halftime on the road against SEA up 17-10 is no reason to change your gameplan.

Yes SEAs run game burned us, but slowly ... I suspect Zimmer was not only scheming against SEA but worried about secondary holding up in a fully run committed situation. The third quarter was catastrophic - not because of great adjustments by SEA or lack thereof by us - but because of the turnovers and boneheaded plays. I don’t remember when Cook/ Reiff went out but that didn’t help either.

No excuses, we got outplayed badly in the third quarter. Badly. And it sucks to see our run defense shredded by an offense that is broadcast thats it going to run. Get this this defense back on track Zimmer or you are going to be out of a job fast.

What can I say, ‘winning’ (with big quotation marks) 3 out of 4 quarters doesnt cut it. Thank God it wasnt a playoff game. I’d love to have that opportunity again with Thielen on the field and the defense playing a little better ... maybe we will.

Post #: 4233

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 12:21:24 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Why does it often take a half for adjustments to be made and sometimes never get made?

Too many coaches to count with tablets and headsets but seemingly they can’t see it and react.

I almost lost my mind. Down 34 to 17, extra lineman in and the Vikes are playing two deep safeties.

We don't seem to mind a death by paper-cuts.

Making matters worse - the second we put our safety #22 on the line of scrimmage they burned us (#29) for a bomb TD. Pete Carroll had done his homework and his offense was ready to take what we gave.

So ... Carol outcoaches Zimmer by using an extra lineman against our 2-deep Safety approach but the minute we change out of our 2-deep safety approach we get burned.

The def gameplan seemed odd to me at first but IMO indicated that we had more confidence in offense than our ability to shut down their run attack without exposing our secondary against whirling dervish Wilson. I would say going into halftime on the road against SEA up 17-10 is no reason to change your gameplan.

Yes SEAs run game burned us, but slowly ... I suspect Zimmer was not only scheming against SEA but worried about secondary holding up in a fully run committed situation. The third quarter was catastrophic - not because of great adjustments by SEA or lack thereof by us - but because of the turnovers and boneheaded plays. I don’t remember when Cook/ Reiff went out but that didn’t help either.

No excuses, we got outplayed badly in the third quarter. Badly. And it sucks to see our run defense shredded by an offense that is broadcast thats it going to run. Get this this defense back on track Zimmer or you are going to be out of a job fast.

What can I say, ‘winning’ (with big quotation marks) 3 out of 4 quarters doesnt cut it. Thank God it wasnt a playoff game. I’d love to have that opportunity again with Thielen on the field and the defense playing a little better ... maybe we will.

Leaving Rhodes as the #1 CB comes under the heading of 'coaching'. Put a better option in his spot and bring the safeties up and see what happens. The good teams have been targeting Rhodes since and including Green Bay.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4234

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 12:22:52 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

My point is that it was still happening late in the 4th quarter. They drove and took all but 30 seconds off the clock. I didn't see any run-blitzing or aggressive play calls to stop the run. Which is WAY Worse than getting burned by a deep Wilson pass because it leaves no time on the clock.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4235

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 12:48:44 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9568
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Why does it often take a half for adjustments to be made and sometimes never get made?

Too many coaches to count with tablets and headsets but seemingly they can’t see it and react.

I almost lost my mind. Down 34 to 17, extra lineman in and the Vikes are playing two deep safeties.

We don't seem to mind a death by paper-cuts.

Making matters worse - the second we put our safety #22 on the line of scrimmage they burned us (#29) for a bomb TD. Pete Carroll had done his homework and his offense was ready to take what we gave.

So ... Carol outcoaches Zimmer by using an extra lineman against our 2-deep Safety approach but the minute we change out of our 2-deep safety approach we get burned.

The def gameplan seemed odd to me at first but IMO indicated that we had more confidence in offense than our ability to shut down their run attack without exposing our secondary against whirling dervish Wilson. I would say going into halftime on the road against SEA up 17-10 is no reason to change your gameplan.

Yes SEAs run game burned us, but slowly ... I suspect Zimmer was not only scheming against SEA but worried about secondary holding up in a fully run committed situation. The third quarter was catastrophic - not because of great adjustments by SEA or lack thereof by us - but because of the turnovers and boneheaded plays. I don’t remember when Cook/ Reiff went out but that didn’t help either.

No excuses, we got outplayed badly in the third quarter. Badly. And it sucks to see our run defense shredded by an offense that is broadcast thats it going to run. Get this this defense back on track Zimmer or you are going to be out of a job fast.

What can I say, ‘winning’ (with big quotation marks) 3 out of 4 quarters doesnt cut it. Thank God it wasnt a playoff game. I’d love to have that opportunity again with Thielen on the field and the defense playing a little better ... maybe we will.

we were playing with 6/7 in the box and they were using 6 o-linemen and a te...of course they were running right through us....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4236

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 1:16:58 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Why does it often take a half for adjustments to be made and sometimes never get made?

Too many coaches to count with tablets and headsets but seemingly they can’t see it and react.

I almost lost my mind. Down 34 to 17, extra lineman in and the Vikes are playing two deep safeties.

We don't seem to mind a death by paper-cuts.

Making matters worse - the second we put our safety #22 on the line of scrimmage they burned us (#29) for a bomb TD. Pete Carroll had done his homework and his offense was ready to take what we gave.

So ... Carol outcoaches Zimmer by using an extra lineman against our 2-deep Safety approach but the minute we change out of our 2-deep safety approach we get burned.

The def gameplan seemed odd to me at first but IMO indicated that we had more confidence in offense than our ability to shut down their run attack without exposing our secondary against whirling dervish Wilson. I would say going into halftime on the road against SEA up 17-10 is no reason to change your gameplan.

Yes SEAs run game burned us, but slowly ... I suspect Zimmer was not only scheming against SEA but worried about secondary holding up in a fully run committed situation. The third quarter was catastrophic - not because of great adjustments by SEA or lack thereof by us - but because of the turnovers and boneheaded plays. I don’t remember when Cook/ Reiff went out but that didn’t help either.

No excuses, we got outplayed badly in the third quarter. Badly. And it sucks to see our run defense shredded by an offense that is broadcast thats it going to run. Get this this defense back on track Zimmer or you are going to be out of a job fast.

What can I say, ‘winning’ (with big quotation marks) 3 out of 4 quarters doesnt cut it. Thank God it wasnt a playoff game. I’d love to have that opportunity again with Thielen on the field and the defense playing a little better ... maybe we will.

Leaving Rhodes as the #1 CB comes under the heading of 'coaching'. Put a better option in his spot and bring the safeties up and see what happens. The good teams have been targeting Rhodes since and including Green Bay.

I really didn’t address Rhodes specifically ... nor did the posts I responded too.

It was really about in game adjustments and countering their extra OL.

Post #: 4237

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 1:42:24 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

Yeah I think we’re pretty much in agreement

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4238

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 3:09:36 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

I forget which coach said: The developmental curve - you are blown out of games, you have first learn to play with those teams (lose close ones), then you learn how to win those close ones, finally you learn to blow teams out.

Vikings remind me of that with Road games. 3 of our losses came against top 10 teams on the road. All within 1 score. A couple of plays in each game and we had/have a chance to pull it out.

I'm much more optimistic about this team, the only game we haven't shown any fight was the Chicago game. To fight back on the road after probably the worst 4 drive (Fumble, TD, INT, TD) sequence I've seen was something else. The noise at Clink was as loud as any NFL game I've ever been to.

At the same time, there would be nothing more Viking than to have a 90% chance of making the playoffs with 5 games to play and finding a way to exit ourselves out of the playoffs.

< Message edited by Pager -- 12/6/2019 4:59:30 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4239

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 4:58:11 PM

drviking

Posts: 36160
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

Good is the enemy of great.

I think Zimmer is good, I don't have the feeling he is great.

Ymmv

_____________________________

"Only one thing left to do..."

Post #: 4240

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 5:21:56 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

Good is the enemy of great.

I think Zimmer is good, I don't have the feeling he is great.

Ymmv

I don't think he's much different than Brad Childress. Sure Childress was more of an ahole. Other than that extremely similar imo.

Post #: 4241

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 6:06:42 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

On one play I saw Barr get manhandled by DK the sea wr.

Zim seems to have a love affair with Barr and Rhodes

When is the last time a starter lost his spot to a backup for any reason other than injury/suspension? How many times ever under Zimmer?

I honestly can't remember anybody getting benched for poor play.
Rhodes has pushed the envelope pretty far.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4242

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 6:38:09 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

On one play I saw Barr get manhandled by DK the sea wr.

Zim seems to have a love affair with Barr and Rhodes

When is the last time a starter lost his spot to a backup for any reason other than injury/suspension? How many times ever under Zimmer?

I honestly can't remember anybody getting benched for poor play.
Rhodes has pushed the envelope pretty far.

If Rhodes isn't benched I don't know how you can surmise anything other than Zimmer having no clue...

Post #: 4243

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 8:17:51 PM

hagar

Posts: 2757
Joined: 3/3/2014
From: fresburg, ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Daniel House@DanielHouseNFL
I'm working through the #Vikings All-22. Minnesota frequently played with two-deep safeties, so the Seahawks decided to bring in an extra OL and play physical football.

It's clear the Vikes wanted to slow drep passing. Seattle perfectly countered through the ground game.

Sure would be nice if sometimes Zimmer would counter other teams counters.
It seems like he makes his defensive game plan and decides to stick with it
come hell or high water. Not very smart when you can see that it's not working.
We've been getting gashed right up the middle a lot this year. I wish the defensive
genius would devise a plan to stop it.

Post #: 4244

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 8:36:54 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

What would that be now for Zim 2-4 after a bye?

He certainly hasn't developed many game plans that actually stifle an opposing offense.

Denver game he was able to at least adjust and limited them in the second half. But he got schooled by Carroll.

Football 101 tells me he should at least shore up the weakest link.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4245

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2019 10:01:03 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15425
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

Barr is fine, as long as we use him in the right way. He's not a cover guy. He is an asset when he plays along the line and is able to pressure the passer and stuff the run. He gets lost in coverage. Zim has to play him to his strengths and stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole!

Post #: 4246

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/7/2019 8:37:02 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 331
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Barr is fine, as long as we use him in the right way. He's not a cover guy. He is an asset when he plays along the line and is able to pressure the passer and stuff the run. He gets lost in coverage. Zim has to play him to his strengths and stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole!

Couldn’t agree more, also agree with David that it was a mistake to resign him. Should have let him go the Jets

It’s decisions like these and paying too much for Cousins (a good, not great QB) that keep this organization in that mediocrity mode

Just look at the last 2 years. How many wins vs teams that end the season with winning records?

This last wild card will get reall interesting. They will probably win easy this week. LA will be no easy game with James and Bosa healthy

If they fail to hold on to the last wild card spot Zimmer and Spielman have to go
The whole Cousins signing turns in to an epic disaster for a team that was supposed to be a QB away

Post #: 4247

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/7/2019 8:38:15 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 331
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What would that be now for Zim 2-4 after a bye?

He certainly hasn't developed many game plans that actually stifle an opposing offense.

Denver game he was able to at least adjust and limited them in the second half. But he got schooled by Carroll.

Football 101 tells me he should at least shore up the weakest link.

Lol. The fact you have to adjust to Brandon Allen and Denver offense is concerning itself

Post #: 4248

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/7/2019 8:46:43 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Barr is fine, as long as we use him in the right way. He's not a cover guy. He is an asset when he plays along the line and is able to pressure the passer and stuff the run. He gets lost in coverage. Zim has to play him to his strengths and stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole!

Couldn’t agree more, also agree with David that it was a mistake to resign him. Should have let him go the Jets

It’s decisions like these and paying too much for Cousins (a good, not great QB) that keep this organization in that mediocrity mode

Just look at the last 2 years. How many wins vs teams that end the season with winning records?

This last wild card will get reall interesting. They will probably win easy this week. LA will be no easy game with James and Bosa healthy

If they fail to hold on to the last wild card spot Zimmer and Spielman have to go
The whole Cousins signing turns in to an epic disaster for a team that was supposed to be a QB away

The Cousins contract bothers me less and less being he is playing well.

No he's not a great qb but there aren't a lot of even good qb's if you scan what every other team has. Secondly if you make a list of our last 20 qb's this franchise has started we could do far worse than Cousins.

Rhodes certainly is the new whipping boy but it really should be Zim himself. The fact that he plans to keep trotting Rhodes out there and his misusage of Barr are just a couple tipping points.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4249

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/7/2019 11:00:39 AM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2069
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

Good is the enemy of great.

I think Zimmer is good, I don't have the feeling he is great.

Ymmv

I don't think he's much different than Brad Childress. Sure Childress was more of an ahole. Other than that extremely similar imo.

The players seem to play for Zim and respect him the same can't be said for Chilly.

Post #: 4250

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