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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:26:28 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

If Cousins is such an honorable boy scout, he should take a pay cut that reflects his actual performance. Restructure.

Restructure would require adding more years, like we did with Rudolph. We're now stuck with Rudolph until 2023 well into his 30s or else a big dead cap hit. Can't believe they did that.

I wonder what Kirks injury deal is? if he fully guaranteed entire salary if he is beaten and pummeled so severely that he has to or wants to leave the game and retire?

This part of Kirks contract is almost laughable now... but the bolded part not so much!

In addition, Cousins has $2 million worth of upside potential in each year tied to Super Bowl-related incentives involving several factors. If his team wins the Super Bowl every year and the rest of the parameters are reached, the deal can be three years, $90 million.

Cousins also has a no-trade provision and a no transition tag provision.

Cousins made $44 million over the two years with his franchise tags in DC. That means he'll make $128 million over five seasons.

< Message edited by Ragnarök -- 9/30/2019 9:42:02 PM >

Post #: 1576

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:33:59 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

If Cousins is such an honorable boy scout, he should take a pay cut that reflects his actual performance. Restructure.

Restructure would require adding more years, like we did with Rudolph. We're now stuck with Rudolph until 2023 well into his 30s or else a big dead cap hit. Can't believe they did that.

I wonder what Kirks injury deal is? if he fully guaranteed entire salary if he is beaten and pummeled so severely that he has to or wants to leave the game and retire?

Why, you thinking about meeting up with him in a dark alley?

Post #: 1577

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:36:36 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

If Cousins is such an honorable boy scout, he should take a pay cut that reflects his actual performance. Restructure.

Restructure would require adding more years, like we did with Rudolph. We're now stuck with Rudolph until 2023 well into his 30s or else a big dead cap hit. Can't believe they did that.

I wonder what Kirks injury deal is? if he fully guaranteed entire salary if he is beaten and pummeled so severely that he has to or wants to leave the game and retire?

Why, you thinking about meeting up with him in a dark alley?

Nope, but just maybe his OL and team gets so tired of taking so much crap that they refuse to block all together for him every few snaps...

Or maybe they already are

Bradbury listening to the relentless sweaty ass comments payback's a B Kirk...

< Message edited by Ragnarök -- 9/30/2019 9:48:33 PM >

Post #: 1578

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 12:12:19 AM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

If Cousins gets hurt, can the Vikings pick up Sloter ?

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Post #: 1579

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 5:57:33 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

If Cousins gets hurt, can the Vikings pick up Sloter ?

In that scenario, if Sloter did well, Zimmer/Spielman would look like imbeciles in terms of their ability to evaluate QB talent and get good value.

Post #: 1580

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 6:11:21 AM

Dave Odle

Posts: 8378
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

If Cousins gets hurt, can the Vikings pick up Sloter ?

In that scenario, if Sloter did well, Zimmer/Spielman would look like imbeciles in terms of their ability to evaluate QB talent and get good value.

I'm not even sure if it is just evaluating. They can't coach up QB's. Would Patrick Mahomes be balling out if he came here instead of w/ Andy Reid and the Chiefs? It sure gives me pause, that's for sure.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1581

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 7:32:07 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

If Cousins gets hurt, can the Vikings pick up Sloter ?

In that scenario, if Sloter did well, Zimmer/Spielman would look like imbeciles in terms of their ability to evaluate QB talent and get good value.

I'm not even sure if it is just evaluating. They can't coach up QB's. Would Patrick Mahomes be balling out if he came here instead of w/ Andy Reid and the Chiefs? It sure gives me pause, that's for sure.

Cousins has gone backwards. He seems to be worse now than he was before arriving.

Post #: 1582

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 7:50:46 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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Cousins simply looks broken. He drops back and sets but is afraid to pull the trigger.

From what I'm reading in some tape breakdowns both Theilen and Diggs were open on many plays and instead of pulling the trigger Cousins opts for the check down to Ham or Cook.

Why is he afraid to throw the ball down field? Is Zim in his head about mistakes?

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Post #: 1583

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 8:38:07 AM

CPAMAN

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When asked after the game whether he could ever recall a game where the offense was only on the field twice in the first half, Mike Zimmer responded, "I'm not sure, I would have to think about that."

What an idiot! I have never heard of that before. It is nearly impossible but the Vikings made it happen. You cannot have the ball once in a half. That would be impossible.

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Post #: 1584

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 8:45:48 AM

CPAMAN

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Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Not acceptable how our cap money is being used/ results...

Its on Zimmer and the OC tandem and company of buddies and family...

Kirk Cousins: 3 years, $84M

Stefon Diggs: 5 years, $81M

Adam Thielen: 4 years, $64M

Vikings: 31st in passing yards per game, 32nd in passing first downs per game

So the Vikings have the most money in the NFL invested in their QB and two WR and easily the worst results. Why are Spielman and Zimmer still employed?

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 1585

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 8:54:34 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
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Andy Dalton looked awful last night once his O-line stopped blocking. Can't underestimate the O-line's impact on the QB.

Post #: 1586

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:11:42 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Not acceptable how our cap money is being used/ results...

Its on Zimmer and the OC tandem and company of buddies and family...

Kirk Cousins: 3 years, $84M

Stefon Diggs: 5 years, $81M

Adam Thielen: 4 years, $64M

Vikings: 31st in passing yards per game, 32nd in passing first downs per game

So the Vikings have the most money in the NFL invested in their QB and two WR and easily the worst results. Why are Spielman and Zimmer still employed?

No way should they get a third year with Cousins. Give another coach a chance to get through to him.

I don’t put all the blame on the OL, Cousins hangs on to the ball far too long on occasion.

No way in hell should Speilman pick another Vikings QB.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 10/1/2019 9:17:35 AM >

Post #: 1587

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:23:16 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Not acceptable how our cap money is being used/ results...

Its on Zimmer and the OC tandem and company of buddies and family...

Kirk Cousins: 3 years, $84M

Stefon Diggs: 5 years, $81M

Adam Thielen: 4 years, $64M

Vikings: 31st in passing yards per game, 32nd in passing first downs per game

So the Vikings have the most money in the NFL invested in their QB and two WR and easily the worst results. Why are Spielman and Zimmer still employed?

No way should they get a third year with Cousins. Give another coach a chance to get through to him.

I don’t put all the blame on the OL, Cousins hangs on to the ball far too long on occasion.

No way in hell should Speilman pick another Vikings QB.

They can't seem to develop qb or oline. O'Neill better run before they ruin him.

Post #: 1588

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:27:47 AM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Not acceptable how our cap money is being used/ results...

Its on Zimmer and the OC tandem and company of buddies and family...

Kirk Cousins: 3 years, $84M

Stefon Diggs: 5 years, $81M

Adam Thielen: 4 years, $64M

Vikings: 31st in passing yards per game, 32nd in passing first downs per game

So the Vikings have the most money in the NFL invested in their QB and two WR and easily the worst results. Why are Spielman and Zimmer still employed?

No way should they get a third year with Cousins. Give another coach a chance to get through to him.

I don’t put all the blame on the OL, Cousins hangs on to the ball far too long on occasion.

No way in hell should Speilman pick another Vikings QB.

Totally agree. In a perfect world, at this time next year the Vikings will have someone like Jake Fromm or Jacob Eason starting and, since we can't escape his contract, Cousins riding the bench as backup.

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Post #: 1589

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:30:17 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Cousins is simply holding onto the ball too long. Heard mixed data regarding the time from snap to throw in this game. But prior to this game he was holding onto the ball for 3.15 sec which was highest among all qb's.

Just the eye ball test tells me he's dropping back and sets but doesn't throw it. Most routes are designed for that amount of time.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1590

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:43:01 AM

Dave Odle

Posts: 8378
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline

If Cousins won't take a pay cut, make him one of the highest paid backups, just like Chase Daniel. Maybe like Daniel, he would perform efficiently if he didn't have the pressure of being the guy.

He should do the right thing here, though. If he is such an honorable, Christian man, then don't steal money he didn't earn. Put your money where your mouth is. Lord knows he has enough of it anyway.

_____________________________

Try using hindsight in the present.

Post #: 1591

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:49:38 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

We have a lot of slow-developing routes that I've noted when watching replays from behind the offense. I always try to see if I can find open guys when the pressure gets near/to Cousins, and very often the WRs are still running with their backs to him when he has to bail out. Many of those times, we have a back and/or a TE or two chipping or staying in to block, and that's why we see him dump off to a well-covered outlet that goes nowhere. Sometimes he has guys he could maybe throw to as they break, but it's not always obvious if they're actually going to be open. Courtney Cronin (?) from ESPN tweated that he has open guys on play-action and sometimes we see it, so there's that, too.

A lot of things going wrong together......

Post #: 1592

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:52:03 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

If Cousins won't take a pay cut, make him one of the highest paid backups, just like Chase Daniel. Maybe like Daniel, he would perform efficiently if he didn't have the pressure of being the guy.

He should do the right thing here, though. If he is such an honorable, Christian man, then don't steal money he didn't earn. Put your money where your mouth is. Lord knows he has enough of it anyway.

make cousins play guard - end of game when the outcome has been determined....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1593

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 9:57:06 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45024
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

We have a lot of slow-developing routes that I've noted when watching replays from behind the offense. I always try to see if I can find open guys when the pressure gets near/to Cousins, and very often the WRs are still running with their backs to him when he has to bail out. Many of those times, we have a back and/or a TE or two chipping or staying in to block, and that's why we see him dump off to a well-covered outlet that goes nowhere. Sometimes he has guys he could maybe throw to as they break, but it's not always obvious if they're actually going to be open. Courtney Cronin (?) from ESPN tweated that he has open guys on play-action and sometimes we see it, so there's that, too.

A lot of things going wrong together......

I think the short comings of Cousins, and every other member of the offense for that matter, are made worse by Zimmer's insistence on playing a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense, rather that something more geared this century.

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Post #: 1594

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 10:05:15 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Kirk Cousins apologized to Adam Thielen on #UnderCenter (via KFAN):

“After watching the film, there’s too many opportunities where we could have hit him... I didn’t help things... I look forward to giving him and Stefon [Diggs] more opportunities in the weeks ahead.”

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1595

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 10:19:04 AM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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Cousins is failing for several reasons. Its not his arm though or his very pedestrian athleticism. Its all in his head.

I suspect the big contract and the attached pressure of having to perform like an upper tier franchise qb has gotten the best of him. Its a lot different than coming out of nowhere and exceeding expectations like he did in WA.

The pressure that he is putting on himself is amplifying his weaknesses: trying not to be skittish in the pocket has made his him extra sensitive to the pocket collapsing, trying not to fumble has him gripping the ball way too hard, trying to be perfect on his throws has him looking for easier, less dangerous throws, etc.

Regardless, its not working. Cousins is not scrappy enough to overcome the OL’s or his own deficiencies, and the offensive braintrust doesnt look like it is very agile or can course-correct very well, as early as it is in the season.

Another couple of offensive stinkers and it wouldn’t surprise me to see Kubiaski take over completely. Not that it will matter if Cousins and the OL dont bolster eachother with some improvement.

Post #: 1596

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 11:00:18 AM

ronhextall

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Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Why Cousins agreed to do a weekly radio show baffles me.

He obviously doesn’t need the money

Post #: 1597

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 11:31:40 AM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

We have a lot of slow-developing routes that I've noted when watching replays from behind the offense. I always try to see if I can find open guys when the pressure gets near/to Cousins, and very often the WRs are still running with their backs to him when he has to bail out. Many of those times, we have a back and/or a TE or two chipping or staying in to block, and that's why we see him dump off to a well-covered outlet that goes nowhere. Sometimes he has guys he could maybe throw to as they break, but it's not always obvious if they're actually going to be open. Courtney Cronin (?) from ESPN tweated that he has open guys on play-action and sometimes we see it, so there's that, too.

A lot of things going wrong together......

I think the short comings of Cousins, and every other member of the offense for that matter, are made worse by Zimmer's insistence on playing a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense, rather that something more geared this century.

Three yards rushing on Sunday was the exception. Most runs were one yard and a rug burn. Or is Soldier Field grass? I forget.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 1598

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 11:34:03 AM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Not acceptable how our cap money is being used/ results...

Its on Zimmer and the OC tandem and company of buddies and family...

Kirk Cousins: 3 years, $84M

Stefon Diggs: 5 years, $81M

Adam Thielen: 4 years, $64M

Vikings: 31st in passing yards per game, 32nd in passing first downs per game

So the Vikings have the most money in the NFL invested in their QB and two WR and easily the worst results. Why are Spielman and Zimmer still employed?

No way should they get a third year with Cousins. Give another coach a chance to get through to him.

I don’t put all the blame on the OL, Cousins hangs on to the ball far too long on occasion.

No way in hell should Speilman pick another Vikings QB.

I think the blame should be directed at the Wilfs. They are idiots for having Spielman as their only GM since they have been owners. Spielman has accomplished nothing except mediocrity, national TV failure, and playoff failure.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 1599

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/1/2019 11:36:54 AM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Cousins is failing for several reasons. Its not his arm though or his very pedestrian athleticism. Its all in his head.

I suspect the big contract and the attached pressure of having to perform like an upper tier franchise qb has gotten the best of him. Its a lot different than coming out of nowhere and exceeding expectations like he did in WA.

The pressure that he is putting on himself is amplifying his weaknesses: trying not to be skittish in the pocket has made his him extra sensitive to the pocket collapsing, trying not to fumble has him gripping the ball way too hard, trying to be perfect on his throws has him looking for easier, less dangerous throws, etc.

Regardless, its not working. Cousins is not scrappy enough to overcome the OL’s or his own deficiencies, and the offensive braintrust doesnt look like it is very agile or can course-correct very well, as early as it is in the season.

Another couple of offensive stinkers and it wouldn’t surprise me to see Kubiaski take over completely. Not that it will matter if Cousins and the OL dont bolster eachother with some improvement.

Good post Tom. I would say that Kirk Cousins is the equivalent of Joe Mauer. A nice guy, probably a great family guy, but not a winner. A player with enormous talent, but afraid to play above his potential. "Don't wanna do too much" is the mantra of Joe Mauer and Kirk Cousins.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 1600