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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 3:22:47 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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Dallas’ Kellen Moore isn’t married to a scheme and tends to orchestrate his offense around personnel.

Ok. It doesn't have to be Moore that is our next HC, but I want a coach that does this.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 4:19:08 PM   
marty


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Nothing makes a job more appealing than not being able to choose the people that work for you..

Unless you happen to see like Fangio, and you happen to like DCs that are successful, and like having a DC that has won a SB. B

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 4:37:18 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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.
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Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin

Conversations I’ve had the last few days regarding Ryan Poles center on his grasp of the personnel evaluation/scouting process and how that’s impressed those who decided he should be a finalist. Mark Wilf said he doesn’t think the Vikings are in a rebuild and that they can field a competitive team next year.

Poles doesn’t strike me as someone who will come in and try to tear the roster apart or implement a ton of new changes/processes with staff/players for a team that thinks it’s not too far away from being competitive again.

There’s certainly an advantage to doing things that way and having a GM with a heavy scouting background leading the charge on the football side. His philosophy is to build a roster through the draft, so that could play big to those who will be deciding the next GM.

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Post #: 3153
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 4:46:13 PM   
Chris Olson


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From: Saratoga Springs, NY
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i like the Poles background...a real football guy...

Adofo-Mensah sounds too much like a numbers and analytics guy...and that just doesn't seem to translate to fielding great players

just like how smart Mannion and Ponder are never translated to being good, I understand it is different in the front office, but give me to guy who fixed the KC OL on the fly over the number over the Browns smarty pants
Post #: 3154
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 5:17:22 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Nothing makes a job more appealing than not being able to choose the people that work for you..

Unless you happen to see like Fangio, and you happen to like DCs that are successful, and like having a DC that has won a SB. B


What if you want to play a different style than he does?

Let's just hire Zimmer right now as DC. He won a SB as a DC.

You're going to significantly limit who is interested in the job if they don't get to pick their coordinators.
Post #: 3155
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 5:51:55 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Dallas’ Kellen Moore isn’t married to a scheme and tends to orchestrate his offense around personnel.

Ok. It doesn't have to be Moore that is our next HC, but I want a coach that does this.


I want a head coach that is married to a kick ass offense. KAO
Post #: 3156
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 7:50:42 PM   
BosViking


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Hi all. I was kindly invited to check out this forum.

Quick thoughts:

- I am very excited about a new start (new regime) in general. We not only need it, but desperately need it.

- I like both of the final two GM candidates (though I liked Hortiz from Ravens even more, but the two finalists were #2 and #3 on my wish list).

- I'm hoping the new HC fully understands the HC position. I'd prefer he focuses on being an overseer of the whole team, instead of a playcaller on one unit and biased towards "his" unit. I like the Bills model... McDermott installed Frazier as DC and Daboll as OC, and gave them freedom... with him providing oversight, and doing actual HC duties. Not just a bonafide coordinator with a HC title. Not naming anyone.

- It would probably be wise to trade Kirk. At worst, let him play out his final year, and let him walk after that. Do not extend him. We need a fresh start.... he wasn't the sole problem, but he was part of the problem.
Post #: 3157
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 7:52:04 PM   
marty


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Who did Zimmer win a SB with as a DC ?

I read he was some sort of consultant, or defensive assistant for Dallas,not the DC.

Sort of like Dom Capers was for the Vikings this past season. We should have known that was a kiss of death,and that the defense would be low in the ratings.

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Post #: 3158
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 7:58:22 PM   
BosViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Who did Zimmer win a SB with as a DC ?

I read he was some sort of consultant, or defensive assistant for Dallas,not the DC.

Sort of like Dom Capers was for the Vikings this past season. We should have known that was a kiss of death,and that the defense would be low in the ratings.


I don't know that he even made the playoffs as DC.... much less win a SB as a DC.
Post #: 3159
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 8:14:46 PM   
joejitsu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BosViking

Hi all. I was kindly invited to check out this forum.

Quick thoughts:

- I am very excited about a new start (new regime) in general. We not only need it, but desperately need it.

- I like both of the final two GM candidates (though I liked Hortiz from Ravens even more, but the two finalists were #2 and #3 on my wish list).

- I'm hoping the new HC fully understands the HC position. I'd prefer he focuses on being an overseer of the whole team, instead of a playcaller on one unit and biased towards "his" unit. I like the Bills model... McDermott installed Frazier as DC and Daboll as OC, and gave them freedom... with him providing oversight, and doing actual HC duties. Not just a bonafide coordinator with a HC title. Not naming anyone.

- It would probably be wise to trade Kirk. At worst, let him play out his final year, and let him walk after that. Do not extend him. We need a fresh start.... he wasn't the sole problem, but he was part of the problem.


Welcome, Bos! I hope you enjoy the conversations on our board.
Post #: 3160
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 8:18:58 PM   
BosViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: BosViking

Hi all. I was kindly invited to check out this forum.

Quick thoughts:

- I am very excited about a new start (new regime) in general. We not only need it, but desperately need it.

- I like both of the final two GM candidates (though I liked Hortiz from Ravens even more, but the two finalists were #2 and #3 on my wish list).

- I'm hoping the new HC fully understands the HC position. I'd prefer he focuses on being an overseer of the whole team, instead of a playcaller on one unit and biased towards "his" unit. I like the Bills model... McDermott installed Frazier as DC and Daboll as OC, and gave them freedom... with him providing oversight, and doing actual HC duties. Not just a bonafide coordinator with a HC title. Not naming anyone.

- It would probably be wise to trade Kirk. At worst, let him play out his final year, and let him walk after that. Do not extend him. We need a fresh start.... he wasn't the sole problem, but he was part of the problem.


Welcome, Bos! I hope you enjoy the conversations on our board.


Thank you Joe!
Post #: 3161
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2022 10:51:28 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

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Hey, BosViking

Welcome to the startrib refugee camp…

Hope you have fun here..

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**** you all.
Post #: 3162
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 7:59:08 AM   
Murph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

i like the Poles background...a real football guy...

Adofo-Mensah sounds too much like a numbers and analytics guy...and that just doesn't seem to translate to fielding great players

just like how smart Mannion and Ponder are never translated to being good, I understand it is different in the front office, but give me to guy who fixed the KC OL on the fly over the number over the Browns smarty pants


Exactly Chris, you summed up my feeling perfectly.

Adofo-Mensah is an Ivy league grad and former day trader, analytics nut - Boom or bust

Poles has tons of football experience but no Ivy league education or Wall street background.

I really, really hope it's Poles, I don't want to be governed completely by numbers, they still need context when making decisions.

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Post #: 3163
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 8:34:39 AM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

i like the Poles background...a real football guy...

Adofo-Mensah sounds too much like a numbers and analytics guy...and that just doesn't seem to translate to fielding great players

just like how smart Mannion and Ponder are never translated to being good, I understand it is different in the front office, but give me to guy who fixed the KC OL on the fly over the number over the Browns smarty pants


Exactly Chris, you summed up my feeling perfectly.

Adofo-Mensah is an Ivy league grad and former day trader, analytics nut - Boom or bust

Poles has tons of football experience but no Ivy league education or Wall street background.

I really, really hope it's Poles, I don't want to be governed completely by numbers, they still need context when making decisions.

A numbers guy will know that you can't win with 5th, 6th and 7th round draft picks. So there's that. I'd rather have analytics than egoitics, which we just got done with. Give me the guy with no emotions or ego when making a pick.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 1/22/2022 8:37:16 AM >


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Post #: 3164
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 11:03:39 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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What's remarkable is the Chiefs were able to withstand the opt-outs and the injuries without putting many resources into their offensive line. Niang -- taken in the third round of the 2020 draft -- is the first offensive lineman the Chiefs have drafted above the fourth round since 2015.

Remmers has perhaps been the Chiefs' most valuable lineman. He started games this season at left guard and right tackle. He shifted to left tackle against the Bills after Fisher left the lineup. He has played well at every spot and exceeded the Chiefs' expectations."I knew him by reputation," offensive line coach Andy Heck said. "I had seen him on tape where he's been a number of places, but he's played a lot of football and a lot of different positions.



They very well may have acquired the 'right' OL late rounders and low-mid tier free agents to keep the offense afloat due to injuries and opt-outs (until losing the SB), but I believe Mahommes made the OL look a lot better than they were. When Remmers is perhaps the main cog on the OL one has to wonder.
Post #: 3165
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 11:06:10 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Also, why was the Chiefs D bad for so much of this season? Like historically bad.
Post #: 3166
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 11:16:57 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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From June 2020. He seems more like a collaborator than "a numbers guy":

"I think my background was a positive because I did not have any preconceived notions or biases," Adofo-Mensah said Thursday in a video conference call with local reporters. "When I sat in a room with great evaluators that I have been around in San Francisco, I just took everything they told me. I tried to find the intuition behind it. I ask 'why' a lot. You will find that out about me. I wanted to know even the most simple question. You might think it is simple, but I am building the complex bridge that will get me somewhere complex.

"I will pick every person's brain. You find some amazing knowledge from everywhere in this league. I would say that is where my evaluation base comes from."

As Vice President of Football Operations, Adofo-Mensah will work closely with Berry and the rest of the senior football staff to contribute to all roster and strategy decisions. He will also assist Berry with the day-to-day operations of the department. Adofo-Mensah, a former walk-on basketball player at Princeton, came into the NFL with a clean slate football-wise but had his foundation built thanks to extensive time spent with longtime veterans such as Vic Fangio, Kyle Shanahan, John Lynch and a myriad of others.

Still, Adofo-Mensah is adamant he won't be quibbling with a scout's opinion of a player. That's not his area of expertise. Instead, he'll collect and assess the various opinions from the Browns' player personnel staff and help the group arrive at the soundest possible decisions.


"My job is going to be another person who knows enough about everybody's point of view to come together and make a good decision," Adofo-Mensah said. "That is where I see my role, and that is where I see a lot of my value. I have my perspective and I will bring that to the table, but I also have an appreciation for everybody else's perspective, not only from my time in San Francisco but also my time as a trader, to be honest. There are a lot of people who win a lot of different ways, and you come to appreciate that.

"At the end of the day, you are just trying to make better decisions. That is kind of the basis of where I will approach this job from."


Adofo-Mensah evolved in his position over close to seven years with the 49ers, and the team did, too. When Lynch was hired as general manager in 2017, Adofo-Mensah was empowered and eventually promoted to Director of Football Research and Development. What made last year's trip to the Super Bowl so special to Adofo-Mensah was the trials and tribulations the team endured to get there. Just in 2018, with sky-high expectations surrounding the team, the 49ers floundered after quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo suffered a season-ending injury and finished 4-12.

What Adofo-Mensah saw around him during those hard times fortified his beliefs on what it takes to meet the ultimate goal every team in the NFL has.

"You have to have people in the building who are not going to blink, know what that looks like and have a shared vision," Adofo-Mensah said. "All of that stuff sounds good when you read it, but then living that experience over these last three years – 2017 was not easy and 2018 was not easy. I saw John and Kyle never blink. Nobody else beneath them blinked. We always knew we were building toward something. Seeing that up close, I just know that is what it takes to win and I will never back down from that.

"It takes talent to win in this league. It takes great coaching. It takes great development. It takes a lot of great things. Seeing that up close and knowing that you need an aggressive mindset to win on the margins in every aspect of football operations is an invaluable experience I will never be able to replicate. I think that is what I will bring to the Cleveland Browns."
Post #: 3167
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 11:20:12 AM   
bohumm

 

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Let the knee-jerk reactions and misrepresentations begin!!! "Day trader, analytics nut - Boom or bust" vs. the guy who went to St. Cloud State er... quasi Ivy Boston College who only listens to his gut and eschews all numbers....

None of us have any real feel, much less insight, into the GM candidates, so of course we overlay biases and assumptions. Same with the coaching candidates, though it's a little more visible to fans. What happened with Morris in TB, what Hackett really offers vs what Rodgers makes up for, etc. People making declarations like no retreads (almost every Super Bowl winner is a retread) or OCs only or whatever sound pretty foolish.
Post #: 3168
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 12:26:56 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

What's remarkable is the Chiefs were able to withstand the opt-outs and the injuries without putting many resources into their offensive line. Niang -- taken in the third round of the 2020 draft -- is the first offensive lineman the Chiefs have drafted above the fourth round since 2015.

Remmers has perhaps been the Chiefs' most valuable lineman. He started games this season at left guard and right tackle. He shifted to left tackle against the Bills after Fisher left the lineup. He has played well at every spot and exceeded the Chiefs' expectations."I knew him by reputation," offensive line coach Andy Heck said. "I had seen him on tape where he's been a number of places, but he's played a lot of football and a lot of different positions.



They very well may have acquired the 'right' OL late rounders and low-mid tier free agents to keep the offense afloat due to injuries and opt-outs (until losing the SB), but I believe Mahommes made the OL look a lot better than they were. When Remmers is perhaps the main cog on the OL one has to wonder.



Much like Case Keenum likely was the reason that 2017 was the best our OL ever looked under Zimmer.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 3169
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 12:56:33 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Let the knee-jerk reactions and misrepresentations begin!!! "Day trader, analytics nut - Boom or bust" vs. the guy who went to St. Cloud State er... quasi Ivy Boston College who only listens to his gut and eschews all numbers....

None of us have any real feel, much less insight, into the GM candidates, so of course we overlay biases and assumptions. Same with the coaching candidates, though it's a little more visible to fans. What happened with Morris in TB, what Hackett really offers vs what Rodgers makes up for, etc. People making declarations like no retreads (almost every Super Bowl winner is a retread) or OCs only or whatever sound pretty foolish.

True. There's no real measure for which candidate out executive's the other. I have no idea which one of these guys is the better choice. I just hope the Wilf's guess right.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 1:15:03 PM   
Chris Olson


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Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: online
I had read something about Poles being instrumental in bringing in the pieces to fix the Chiefs OL after things fell apart at the end of last season...

They grabbed Orlando Brown and Joe Thuney in FA and 2nd rounder Creed Humphrey and apparently 5 more OL for a total of 8 new OL

that is why I was feeling that Poles would feel the urgency to get our OL right...

I didn't mean to minimize what Adofo-Mensah could do...apparently both are up and comers and will both be GM's before long....
Post #: 3171
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 1:20:44 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Let the knee-jerk reactions and misrepresentations begin!!! "Day trader, analytics nut - Boom or bust" vs. the guy who went to St. Cloud State er... quasi Ivy Boston College who only listens to his gut and eschews all numbers....

None of us have any real feel, much less insight, into the GM candidates, so of course we overlay biases and assumptions. Same with the coaching candidates, though it's a little more visible to fans. What happened with Morris in TB, what Hackett really offers vs what Rodgers makes up for, etc. People making declarations like no retreads (almost every Super Bowl winner is a retread) or OCs only or whatever sound pretty foolish.


Should just shut down the site then.
Post #: 3172
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 1:38:02 PM   
BosViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

i like the Poles background...a real football guy...

Adofo-Mensah sounds too much like a numbers and analytics guy...and that just doesn't seem to translate to fielding great players

just like how smart Mannion and Ponder are never translated to being good, I understand it is different in the front office, but give me to guy who fixed the KC OL on the fly over the number over the Browns smarty pants


Exactly Chris, you summed up my feeling perfectly.

Adofo-Mensah is an Ivy league grad and former day trader, analytics nut - Boom or bust

Poles has tons of football experience but no Ivy league education or Wall street background.

I really, really hope it's Poles, I don't want to be governed completely by numbers, they still need context when making decisions.

A numbers guy will know that you can't win with 5th, 6th and 7th round draft picks. So there's that. I'd rather have analytics than egoitics, which we just got done with. Give me the guy with no emotions or ego when making a pick.


What's up Brad? I tried sending you a PM, but don't think it went through. Send me one when you have a chance.

Rick was always the smartest guy in the room. He outsmarted the whole NFL -- consistently -- just ask him!

So I am 100% in agreement with you... we just went through the egoism with Rick at the GM position, so a guy like Adofo-Mensah should not be viewed as incapable just because his background is analytics-heavy.

My top three for the new GM were:

1. Hortiz (unfortunately, we did not interview him)
2. Adofo-Mensah
3. Poles


I will not be disappointed with either Adofo-Mensah or Poles.

Either way, we need a change in culture. We need some bold, outside the box, type of thinking in the GM role. Some humility would help too...
Post #: 3173
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 2:12:56 PM   
Murph


Posts: 2023
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From: PNW
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Let the knee-jerk reactions and misrepresentations begin!!! "Day trader, analytics nut - Boom or bust" vs. the guy who went to St. Cloud State er... quasi Ivy Boston College who only listens to his gut and eschews all numbers....

None of us have any real feel, much less insight, into the GM candidates, so of course we overlay biases and assumptions. Same with the coaching candidates, though it's a little more visible to fans. What happened with Morris in TB, what Hackett really offers vs what Rodgers makes up for, etc. People making declarations like no retreads (almost every Super Bowl winner is a retread) or OCs only or whatever sound pretty foolish.


You got me, total knee jerk. I'm so emotionally invested. I know less than zero about any of the potential GM's. Much tougher to gauge than HC's'

Both look like good candidates that would bring some much needed energy back to the franchise.

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".
Post #: 3174
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2022 3:42:50 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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I like the Wilfs or whomever are at least looking at widely divergent backgrounds.
Post #: 3175
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