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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 2:26:16 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12151
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Ronnie Lott sacrificed a finger to keep playing in 1985. A bunch of entitled pussies wouldn't even get a vaccine to help their chances of staying on the field in 2021. Spin it any way you want.

Did the rules change? Yes.

Because the NFL figured it out that they made no sense.

These guys are vindicated each and every time a shot or mask mandate falls by the wayside.

Vindicated? Hey, whatever turns you on even if its false.

The mandates are falling by the wayside because the environment has changed. Specifically, the virus is less deadly, and many more people have now been vaccinated and boosted, or have caught the virus and have antibodies.

I'll ask you the same question I've been asking. Can you name me a player without shots who contracted covid and is having problems or clogging up the healthcare system? Dozier was in the hospital. Not sure what his shot situation was.

This argument started about KC and the NFL rules and now it is something else that belongs in the Politcal Section. I'm keeping it NFL player related if it continues.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 2/28/2022 2:28:15 PM >

Post #: 4251

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 2:28:58 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12151
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

When all else fails just go to 'whataboutism'.

Ronnie Lott

Post #: 4252

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 2:36:16 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

When all else fails just go to 'whataboutism'.

Ronnie Lott

What about him?

See what I did there hehe?

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4253

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 2:41:56 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

There is only one pro-Cousins argument that works.

Cousins excellent reg season stats? No, not if they don't translate to post seasons. Improving the team around him to take advantage of his excellent production? No, how much better of a supporting cast do you need than Jefferson, Thielen Cook, 2021 Conklin and 2021 OL that gave up the 5 fewest sacks in the league? Oh, maybe by supporting cast you mean coaches or defense ... I have heard several posters say that Cousins would won a lot more games with a middle of the road defense (even though our defense was #5 in 2018). No, as explained below, a middle of the road D is not enough either.

So ... the only realistic argument that a pro-Cousins person can make is this:

Other equal and even lesser QBs have won through the playoffs to a SB victory. And its a great argument.

For my money that includes GROUP 1: Hostetler (1990), Rypien (1991), Dilfer (2000), Johnson (2002), Foles (2017).

[*I only went back to 1990, at some point, you are talking about different eras and it’s impossible to compare players / stats fairly, the game has changed so much. Also, I was tempted to add non-elite GROUP 2 Eli Manning, Flacco and Stafford to 'equal or lesser' group 1 but, besides winning SBs, they rank so highly ALL-TIME in crunch-time either regular or post-season … Cousins simply does not meet their standard]

As far as the other SB winning QBs in the modern era (since 1990), I think we can all agree that GROUP 3 Brady, Mahomes, Rogers, P. Manning, Wilson, Brees, Roethlisberger, Warner, Elway, Farve, Young, Aikman are / were better than Cousins.

So … for the anti-Cousins crowd … if avg Joes like Hostetler Rypien Dilfer Johnson Foles can do it … Why not Cousins? Be objective you freakin’ naysayers!

Nothing is impossible!

Well … yes, it is. Unless you are an elite QB GROUP 1, demonstrate you are clutch over your career [Stafford on bad teams like the Lions] GROUP 2, or have a top 5 defense GROUP 3 ... history says you can't and won't do it.

Team Def rankings: Hostetler (#1), Rypien (#2), Dilfer (#1), Johnson (#1), Foles (#4)

Cousins is not elite although he has some very good regular season stats ... He has proven he is not clutch over his ten year career; he has come through at times but c'mon, all QBs have to deal with miscues like fumbles and missed kicks, etc. – you can't use that excuse for him only – all successful QBs have had to deal with those issues and found ways to be more successful in their careers ... and, although Cousins played on team with a #5 ranked defense (2018), he's not going to sniff that around here for year or two or three or who knows.

Off with his mediocre head.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/28/2022 2:47:52 PM >

Post #: 4254

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 3:05:49 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28532
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Ronnie Lott sacrificed a finger to keep playing in 1985. A bunch of entitled pussies wouldn't even get a vaccine to help their chances of staying on the field in 2021. Spin it any way you want.

Did the rules change? Yes.

Because the NFL figured it out that they made no sense.

These guys are vindicated each and every time a shot or mask mandate falls by the wayside.

Vindicated? Hey, whatever turns you on even if its false.

The mandates are falling by the wayside because the environment has changed. Specifically, the virus is less deadly, and many more people have now been vaccinated and boosted, or have caught the virus and have antibodies.

I'll ask you the same question I've been asking. Can you name me a player without shots who contracted covid and is having problems or clogging up the healthcare system? Dozier was in the hospital. Not sure what his shot situation was.

This argument started about KC and the NFL rules and now it is something else that belongs in the Politcal Section. I'm keeping it NFL player related if it continues.

When you say "James can't spread it and kill Grandpa and Grandma?" and "It would be a whole different ballgame if the shots actually prevented the contraction and spread of it.", you are not keeping it NFL player related.

In fact even you expanding into players who contracted COVID is steering away from the issue. That being Cousins sitting due to not being vaccinated.

If you say you are going to stay on topic, then do so.

Post #: 4255

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 3:11:24 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12151
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Ronnie Lott sacrificed a finger to keep playing in 1985. A bunch of entitled pussies wouldn't even get a vaccine to help their chances of staying on the field in 2021. Spin it any way you want.

Did the rules change? Yes.

Because the NFL figured it out that they made no sense.

These guys are vindicated each and every time a shot or mask mandate falls by the wayside.

Vindicated? Hey, whatever turns you on even if its false.

The mandates are falling by the wayside because the environment has changed. Specifically, the virus is less deadly, and many more people have now been vaccinated and boosted, or have caught the virus and have antibodies.

I'll ask you the same question I've been asking. Can you name me a player without shots who contracted covid and is having problems or clogging up the healthcare system? Dozier was in the hospital. Not sure what his shot situation was.

This argument started about KC and the NFL rules and now it is something else that belongs in the Politcal Section. I'm keeping it NFL player related if it continues.

When you say "James can't spread it and kill Grandpa and Grandma?" and "It would be a whole different ballgame if the shots actually prevented the contraction and spread of it.", you are not keeping it NFL player related.

In fact even you expanding into players who contracted COVID is steering away from the issue. That being Cousins sitting due to not being vaccinated.

If you say you are going to stay on topic, then do so.

Exactly. I was definitely including myself when I said that. Notice the order of the posts.

Post #: 4256

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 3:17:31 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28532
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

There is only one pro-Cousins argument that works.

Cousins excellent reg season stats? No, not if they don't translate to post seasons. Improving the team around him to take advantage of his excellent production? No, how much better of a supporting cast do you need than Jefferson, Thielen Cook, 2021 Conklin and 2021 OL that gave up the 5 fewest sacks in the league? Oh, maybe by supporting cast you mean coaches or defense ... I have heard several posters say that Cousins would won a lot more games with a middle of the road defense (even though our defense was #5 in 2018). No, as explained below, a middle of the road D is not enough either.

So ... the only realistic argument that a pro-Cousins person can make is this:

Other equal and even lesser QBs have won through the playoffs to a SB victory. And its a great argument.

For my money that includes GROUP 1: Hostetler (1990), Rypien (1991), Dilfer (2000), Johnson (2002), Foles (2017).

[*I only went back to 1990, at some point, you are talking about different eras and it’s impossible to compare players / stats fairly, the game has changed so much. Also, I was tempted to add non-elite GROUP 2 Eli Manning, Flacco and Stafford to 'equal or lesser' group 1 but, besides winning SBs, they rank so highly ALL-TIME in crunch-time either regular or post-season … Cousins simply does not meet their standard]

As far as the other SB winning QBs in the modern era (since 1990), I think we can all agree that GROUP 3 Brady, Mahomes, Rogers, P. Manning, Wilson, Brees, Roethlisberger, Warner, Elway, Farve, Young, Aikman are / were better than Cousins.

So … for the anti-Cousins crowd … if avg Joes like Hostetler Rypien Dilfer Johnson Foles can do it … Why not Cousins? Be objective you freakin’ naysayers!

Nothing is impossible!

Well … yes, it is. Unless you are an elite QB GROUP 1, demonstrate you are clutch over your career [Stafford on bad teams like the Lions] GROUP 2, or have a top 5 defense GROUP 3 ... history says you can't and won't do it.

Team Def rankings: Hostetler (#1), Rypien (#2), Dilfer (#1), Johnson (#1), Foles (#4)

Cousins is not elite although he has some very good regular season stats ... He has proven he is not clutch over his ten year career; he has come through at times but c'mon, all QBs have to deal with miscues like fumbles and missed kicks, etc. – you can't use that excuse for him only – all successful QBs have had to deal with those issues and found ways to be more successful in their careers ... and, although Cousins played on team with a #5 ranked defense (2018), he's not going to sniff that around here for year or two or three or who knows.

Off with his mediocre head.

So basically Cousins needs everything around him to be great in order to win. $45 million suggests HE should be great, could step up, inspire others, and (gasp) lead.

But nah, .500 career ball and fat paychecks suffice.

The excuses here for him by a persistent few outweigh the excuses for Troy Williamson. He needed glasses! He's finally putting in extra time with the juggs machine! He didn't use gloves! He used the wrong type of glove!

Fortunately, most of the fans here agree with the legions in Washington who have seen Kurt Cousins for what he really is.

Post #: 4257

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 3:27:47 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28532
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Somebody wuves Kirk Cousins and shall not endure and disparaging remarks.

So you think that Thielen, Cook, and Smith received as much grief as Cousins? I know they didn't. Yes Sweens was one but I think the backups filled in fine for the others....that is the FO's fault for not having the backup QB ready to play. Hell Cousins caught as much if not more grief than Rodgers and he was caught lying about it.

When those dudes end up playing at the most important position in the game AND collect 20% of the cap, then they will receive "as much grief". Maybe if Cousins didn't soak up so much cap we could have afforded a better backup QB. Rodgers? Who cares about Rodgers... he is on another team!

Stop shifting and stay on point for once. Key words to use: Cousins, QB, not vaccinated, impact to the team.

Post #: 4258

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 4:03:26 PM 3 votes

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39208
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

Cousins

1. Was not vaccinated. and he missed a game because of it (he would have missed less time under the rules and may not have missed the game at all. and because this org was so unprepared to play without him...we LOST BADLY. There is no guarantee that his presense would have helped...it was the Packers, In Green Bay with the ever so reliable reffing that goes on there.

2. is great at amassing stats. He is accurate, he throws a lot more touchdowns than interceptions. He throws for lots of yards. Generally leads his receivers well....but that being said, play after play he misses guys that are wide open for bigger gains. He frequently dumps the pass to his underneath guy three yards down the field when we need 9 and two defenders are bearing down on the reciever. He doesn't get situations. He doesn't audible. His field vision play to play seems poor. He makes no adjustments at the line. he doesn't read the defense. He only runs the play the coaches call and will not deviate from it even if he knows it wont work.

3. seems to be a friendly and honest guy...but is selfish. he refuses to vaccinate even though that would be better for the team. He is balking at restructuring his deal even though more cap space would help his team be more successful, he'd rather not give the team that flexibility.

4. is paid WAY TOO MUCH. I'm pretty sure a lot of guys in here wouldn't be as anti-Cousins if he were paid about half of what he is due to be paid. He's NOT WORTH THE MONEY THAT IS CURRENTLY COMMITTED TO HIM.

5. is NOT the kind of guy that will take a team, put it on his back and lead that team to Championships. With some exceptions when the lights are brighter he tends to wilt. You want a guy that when the pressure goes up, his play elevates. Cousins tends to go in the opposite direction.

The problem here is if you look just at the stats he looks like a top 10 guy....but he is not a winner when it matters most.

Now the question is how much of that is Cousins. and how much if it was Zimmer's autocratic coaching method, Klint Kubiak's playcalling, and poor coaching game management?

I'm sorry but a QB unwilling to call a time out, who with no time left throws the ball out of bounds instead of taking a chance....

I will be very happy when Kirk Cousins is gone.

I will not shed one tear. He is a decent QB but not the answer to the question, "can this guy lead us to Superbowl Glory?". If we had an 85 Bears, or Ravens SB defense....maybe he could not mess it up enough....but in the long run he just isn't the answer.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 4259

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 4:37:15 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

What are you ignoring though Trek:

The reasons he was signed. Bradford & Teddy Injuries, Case once in a blue moon stats but weak arm. Mahomes, Tom, Joe, Matt, and Josh have great teams built around them....in fact the teams around them are better (the reason why Spielman and Zimmer were fired). They told management they could rebuild the defense with a redone contract by Kirk and other restructures. Cap hell isn't just from Kirk and not just 2020 season.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4260

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 6:39:28 PM

marty

Posts: 13038
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Mahomes doesn't have a great team around him, he strongly elevates them.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4261

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 6:46:07 PM

marty

Posts: 13038
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Tom, you have made some really strong points, and Trekgeekscott just hit it out of the park.

I believe KAM will see it's not feasible economically to keep Kurt, and KOC is well aware of the items Trekgeekscott and Tom pointed out. Kirk is gone.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4262

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 6:48:59 PM

marty

Posts: 13038
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Cincy would also be quite weak without Joe. Replace Joe with Kirk and instead of a team that was close to winning a SB, you'd have a team that would have missed the playoffs, probably goes 8-9.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4263

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 7:35:05 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

But a percentage of the 99%, bitch about Kirk missing the GB game - the same ones that don't wear a mask in the store, gas station, church. Bunch of hypocrites ...

Post #: 4264

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 7:51:28 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Well, you guys got Zimmer on your side - there's that ...

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
10h
SHOTS FIRED: Former #Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer openly complained about Kirk Cousins in meetings and claimed he didn't make enough winning plays, per Chad Graff of The Athletic...

Post #: 4265

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 8:02:37 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Well, you guys got Zimmer on your side - there's that ...

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
10h
SHOTS FIRED: Former #Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer openly complained about Kirk Cousins in meetings and claimed he didn't make enough winning plays, per Chad Graff of The Athletic...

Well that's an endorsement for Cousins.

I may have to go back and re-think my position. Even though I've said the same thing ...

But freakin' Zimmer ...

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/28/2022 8:10:25 PM >

Post #: 4266

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 8:39:06 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Well, you guys got Zimmer on your side - there's that ...

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
10h
SHOTS FIRED: Former #Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer openly complained about Kirk Cousins in meetings and claimed he didn't make enough winning plays, per Chad Graff of The Athletic...

Well that's an endorsement for Cousins.

I may have to go back and re-think my position. Even though I've said the same thing ...

But freakin' Zimmer ...

ha ha - I figured I'd score some points on this one ;)

Post #: 4267

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 8:57:00 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 13946
Status: offline

I don’t give a rats ass about Cousins missing a game because of Covid.

I knew it was gonna happen, I just didn’t know when.

What I care about is his inability to play the level he is paid..

He is a CARRER Mediocre QB…

He hasn’t and most likely will not lead this team anywhere but further into the wilderness of Frustration.

I can’t wait to try ANYTHING Different from ..Meh…. Sidelines in playoffs, again…

Thanks, 21%of the cap..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 4268

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 9:16:52 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Cincy would also be quite weak without Joe. Replace Joe with Kirk and instead of a team that was close to winning a SB, you'd have a team that would have missed the playoffs, probably goes 8-9.

Really? Cook fumble away and we somehow win the game head to head. Then Cindy doesn’t make the playoffs. Kirk isn’t the problem. Fix the cap and rebuild the defense. Play out 2022 with Kirk unless a team gives you a Truck load of picks.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 2/28/2022 9:22:23 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4269

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 10:27:47 PM 1 votes

Todd M

Posts: 40556
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

We do not need a truckload of picks.

Just erasing that 35 mil off our books would be enticing. I'm down with that and a switch from 12 to 6...anything else would be gravy.

I'm praying to the god I don't believe in Carolina takes him off our hands.

Post #: 4270

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 10:41:32 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Well, you guys got Zimmer on your side - there's that ...

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
10h
SHOTS FIRED: Former #Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer openly complained about Kirk Cousins in meetings and claimed he didn't make enough winning plays, per Chad Graff of The Athletic...

Well that's an endorsement for Cousins.

I may have to go back and re-think my position. Even though I've said the same thing ...

But freakin' Zimmer ...

Great minds...

Post #: 4271

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 11:01:41 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Well, you guys got Zimmer on your side - there's that ...

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
10h
SHOTS FIRED: Former #Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer openly complained about Kirk Cousins in meetings and claimed he didn't make enough winning plays, per Chad Graff of The Athletic...

Well that's an endorsement for Cousins.

I may have to go back and re-think my position. Even though I've said the same thing ...

But freakin' Zimmer ...

Great minds...

… share girlfriends?

Post #: 4272

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 11:07:50 PM 1 votes

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I honestly don't care at all anymore.

Cases are 4 to 6 times higher here now as they talk about opening it right up. No more passports to sit and eat dinner, no more capacity limits, mask mandates to drop soon as well vs when they shut everything tf down.

Comes down to protecting yourself is a smart thing to do but it doesn't go much beyond that. Save for the environments of the most vulnerable.

No free healthcare if you're unvaxxed though.

It would be a whole different ballgame if the shots actually prevented the contraction and spread of it.

They don't.

So, get the shot if you have problems and believe in it. Or don't if you follow the data that says you are in the 99.97% category. Or still get it if you are in that category. Whatever.

To each his own at this point until they come up with something that is capable of stopping the spread.

They did. Omicron.

Post #: 4273

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2022 11:16:15 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Adam Thielen
@athielen19
·
55m
If you just get a stop on defense both teams get a possession! Go down and score a touchdown on first possession of overtime and you deserve to win! twitter.com/brgridiron/sta…

---

Me: Same rules as before only first TD in regulation gets choice in OT - that'll add a little spice yet be at least as fair as a coin flip

What if regulation score is 2-2?

Post #: 4274

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2022 7:30:39 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Well, you guys got Zimmer on your side - there's that ...

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
10h
SHOTS FIRED: Former #Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer openly complained about Kirk Cousins in meetings and claimed he didn't make enough winning plays, per Chad Graff of The Athletic...

Well that's an endorsement for Cousins.

I may have to go back and re-think my position. Even though I've said the same thing ...

But freakin' Zimmer ...

Great minds...

Not where I stand....he also told the FO he could rebuild the defense the last two years....it would be the opposite of an endorsement. Ill eat crow when a Case, Teddy, or Ponder type make the playoffs. There is a clone of Lamar Jackson there at 12....Lamar hasn't won it yet either and he is the RB and QB for that team.

Careful for what you wish for guys.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4275