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RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 3:06:48 PM

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Since the mood is tense today I'll add to the drama:

Adam Patrick
@Str8_Cash_Homey
·
2h
Vikings win percentage in 87 games with Kirk Cousins as their QB:

54.6

Vikings win percentage in previous 87 games with Christian Ponder, Matt Cassel, Josh Freeman, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Bradford, Shaun Hill, and Case Keenum as their QBs

56.9

Ouch!

Post #: 3176

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 3:10:46 PM 1 votes

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

One place I will agree with Zimmer is that PFF rankings for O-Linemen are basically garbage.

Unless they know the responsibility for each player on each play, all they're doing is looking at the end result and not how they got there. A guy who allowed a "pressure" may have been doing the exact job asked of him because that may not have been his man to block.

Unless you are all straight up man blocking the guy across from you on every snap, its all noise, very little signal.

I find that a bit of a cop out.
Yeah, you don't know what they are doing EVERY SINGLE play.
But on A LOT of plays... you see a guy get locked up or double teaming a defender.
Pretty easy to figure out those.
When Bradbury gets knocked on his ass... guessing that is not his assignment.
For guys who spend tons of time watching film on OL... probably they can accurately guess assignments more often than not.

Post #: 3177

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 6:15:52 PM 1 votes

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

One place I will agree with Zimmer is that PFF rankings for O-Linemen are basically garbage.

Unless they know the responsibility for each player on each play, all they're doing is looking at the end result and not how they got there. A guy who allowed a "pressure" may have been doing the exact job asked of him because that may not have been his man to block.

Unless you are all straight up man blocking the guy across from you on every snap, its all noise, very little signal.

I find that a bit of a cop out.
Yeah, you don't know what they are doing EVERY SINGLE play.
But on A LOT of plays... you see a guy get locked up or double teaming a defender.
Pretty easy to figure out those.
When Bradbury gets knocked on his ass... guessing that is not his assignment.
For guys who spend tons of time watching film on OL... probably they can accurately guess assignments more often than not.

I dont.

The nuances of blocking are more complicated than ‘locking up a defender’ … you have to know on every play what the assignment is and what the responsibilities are beyond the assignment, etc.

PFF rates performance on what seems to be happening. And who are the raters / how expert are they? The accuracy varies wildly with what a lot of people see, not just me. No insider, player or coach, that I know of, has any use for these ratings.

They get used because there’s no real alternative.

Post #: 3178

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 6:26:56 PM 1 votes

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Crash for Caleb.

I assume Hall would be worse than Cousins, but Cousins might give us a better chance at Caleb because of his slow starts. Worst in the league at 1st quarter scoring ?

If it's not a slow 1st quarter, it's a slow 2nd and 3rd quarter, to keep the Vikings behind so they can get some points either late 3rd quarter or in the 4th quarter, so some people can then brag about how great Cousins is, while he is collecting garbage points below the point of attack.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 3179

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 6:31:15 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17930
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Two moves that should be made right away are trading away Jordan Hicks to Buffalo and Ezra Cleveland to a team wanting a Tackle.

Buffalo lost their MLB to a knee injury in England.

NYJ just Vera Tucker for the season. Could we trade Risner?

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3180

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 6:41:41 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

One place I will agree with Zimmer is that PFF rankings for O-Linemen are basically garbage.

Unless they know the responsibility for each player on each play, all they're doing is looking at the end result and not how they got there. A guy who allowed a "pressure" may have been doing the exact job asked of him because that may not have been his man to block.

Unless you are all straight up man blocking the guy across from you on every snap, its all noise, very little signal.

I find that a bit of a cop out.
Yeah, you don't know what they are doing EVERY SINGLE play.
But on A LOT of plays... you see a guy get locked up or double teaming a defender.
Pretty easy to figure out those.
When Bradbury gets knocked on his ass... guessing that is not his assignment.
For guys who spend tons of time watching film on OL... probably they can accurately guess assignments more often than not.

Sure. But anyone with eyes can see when a guy gets blown on his ass, or conversely, absolutely stones someone.

PFF is supposed to give you the stuff you don't get with the "eye test", but they're doing a whole lot of guessing and assuming on those plays.

I do think Kirk makes our line look worse than it is, but I don't buy, in any way, that we have a Top 5 O-Line. Or that our Interior Line graded out at #2, #6 and #10 last week.

Post #: 3181

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 6:51:14 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17930
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would have damn near everybody on the trading block

The thing that scares me is KOM being the one that has to put it all back together again.

This is the single biggest "oh S***" thing for me. We are trusting a guy who's never done it before, isn't a "football" guy and went in to a year with 13 wins with 1 year contracts on, arguably, the 3 most important positions in the game today. Not a recipe for future success by a long stretch.

We will go in to the offseason, barring some major changes, with no edge rushers or QB. I'm sorry but WTF is he doing?

Excellent question

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3182

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 7:48:16 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

Bottom line the time is now to start moving pieces. Some may call it tanking I just call it smart. This team is going nowhere fast.

Post #: 3183

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 8:44:55 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would have damn near everybody on the trading block

The thing that scares me is KOM being the one that has to put it all back together again.

This is the single biggest "oh S***" thing for me. We are trusting a guy who's never done it before, isn't a "football" guy and went in to a year with 13 wins with 1 year contracts on, arguably, the 3 most important positions in the game today. Not a recipe for future success by a long stretch.

We will go in to the offseason, barring some major changes, with no edge rushers or QB. I'm sorry but WTF is he doing?

Excellent question

Gearing up for 2030

Post #: 3184

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 8:56:31 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

Like I said before,

Step 1 - Fire Queasy
Step 2 - Trade everyone you can, Darrisaw is my only untouchable.
Step 3 - Play the young guys to find out if you have anything.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 3185

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 9:17:51 PM

fmaltes

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline

Best NFL Football Stadiums--Vikings Stadium is usually in the top 5 or ten.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-stadiums-ranked/

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

Post #: 3186

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 9:22:50 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would have damn near everybody on the trading block

The thing that scares me is KOM being the one that has to put it all back together again.

This is the single biggest "oh S***" thing for me. We are trusting a guy who's never done it before, isn't a "football" guy and went in to a year with 13 wins with 1 year contracts on, arguably, the 3 most important positions in the game today. Not a recipe for future success by a long stretch.

We will go in to the offseason, barring some major changes, with no edge rushers or QB. I'm sorry but WTF is he doing?

Excellent question

Gearing up for 2030

So that'd a good year to get the season tickets back?

Post #: 3187

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 10:56:25 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I would have damn near everybody on the trading block

The thing that scares me is KOM being the one that has to put it all back together again.

This is the single biggest "oh S***" thing for me. We are trusting a guy who's never done it before, isn't a "football" guy and went in to a year with 13 wins with 1 year contracts on, arguably, the 3 most important positions in the game today. Not a recipe for future success by a long stretch.

We will go in to the offseason, barring some major changes, with no edge rushers or QB. I'm sorry but WTF is he doing?

Excellent question

Gearing up for 2030

So that'd a good year to get the season tickets back?

When are we done paying out the bloated dead money contacts? That's probably a good year to get em back.

Post #: 3188

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/10/2023 11:51:24 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

Best NFL Football Stadiums--Vikings Stadium is usually in the top 5 or ten.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-stadiums-ranked/

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-nfl-stadiums-from-worst-to-best/dky07jdst5w1mcy7cgsm7q6s

No doubt, the other night Tony Romo said it was the top stadium. IHO of course.

Post #: 3189

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 12:05:21 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 3190

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 12:11:43 AM

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

Genuinely curious... have you been to stadiums that prefer?

I've only been to a handful... so I don't really have much to compare.
I find U.S. Bank to be nice but maybe not spectacular.
I don't really feel like concourses or bathrooms or even traffic are much of an issue but I have heard those complaints by other people.

Post #: 3191

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 12:24:51 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

Genuinely curious... have you been to stadiums that prefer?

I've only been to a handful... so I don't really have much to compare.
I find U.S. Bank to be nice but maybe not spectacular.
I don't really feel like concourses or bathrooms or even traffic are much of an issue but I have heard those complaints by other people.

The Metrodome bathroom situation was much worse.

Post #: 3192

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 12:39:45 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

Genuinely curious... have you been to stadiums that prefer?

I've only been to a handful... so I don't really have much to compare.
I find U.S. Bank to be nice but maybe not spectacular.
I don't really feel like concourses or bathrooms or even traffic are much of an issue but I have heard those complaints by other people.

Anyone ever go to the bathroom at Soldiers Field during a game? Ha, we have it good

Post #: 3193

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 6:09:32 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

One place I will agree with Zimmer is that PFF rankings for O-Linemen are basically garbage.

Unless they know the responsibility for each player on each play, all they're doing is looking at the end result and not how they got there. A guy who allowed a "pressure" may have been doing the exact job asked of him because that may not have been his man to block.

Unless you are all straight up man blocking the guy across from you on every snap, its all noise, very little signal.

I find that a bit of a cop out.
Yeah, you don't know what they are doing EVERY SINGLE play.
But on A LOT of plays... you see a guy get locked up or double teaming a defender.
Pretty easy to figure out those.
When Bradbury gets knocked on his ass... guessing that is not his assignment.
For guys who spend tons of time watching film on OL... probably they can accurately guess assignments more often than not.

Far from perfect, but much better than "basically garbage".

Post #: 3194

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 7:13:52 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

Bottom line the time is now to start moving pieces. Some may call it tanking I just call it smart. This team is going nowhere fast.

It isn't tanking at a point you can't make the playoffs...also anyone they plan on not keeping past this season. Cleveland, Smith, Cousins, Hicks.

Miami in season traded away 3-4 very good players mid season and still went 6-10 or 7-9; that would be the definition of not tanking.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 10/11/2023 7:17:52 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3195

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 7:16:34 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

Genuinely curious... have you been to stadiums that prefer?

I've only been to a handful... so I don't really have much to compare.
I find U.S. Bank to be nice but maybe not spectacular.
I don't really feel like concourses or bathrooms or even traffic are much of an issue but I have heard those complaints by other people.

The Metrodome bathroom situation was much worse.

The best stadium non football I have been to is the Xcel Energy...18000 fans but everything is routed correctly; it seems you are only fighting a crowd of 50 at most and the acoustics for Pearl Jam were very good.

The Bank is 100 times better than the Metrodome for concourses and bathrooms....same for Target Field.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3196

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 7:58:01 AM

joejitsu

Posts: 15425
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

Genuinely curious... have you been to stadiums that prefer?

I've only been to a handful... so I don't really have much to compare.
I find U.S. Bank to be nice but maybe not spectacular.
I don't really feel like concourses or bathrooms or even traffic are much of an issue but I have heard those complaints by other people.

Anyone ever go to the bathroom at Soldiers Field during a game? Ha, we have it good

I've never been to the Bank, but I've been to several events at Soldier Field. Other than the brat stands, that place is a hovel.

Post #: 3197

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 8:03:22 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

Genuinely curious... have you been to stadiums that prefer?

I've only been to a handful... so I don't really have much to compare.
I find U.S. Bank to be nice but maybe not spectacular.
I don't really feel like concourses or bathrooms or even traffic are much of an issue but I have heard those complaints by other people.

Anyone ever go to the bathroom at Soldiers Field during a game? Ha, we have it good

I've never been to the Bank, but I've been to several events at Soldier Field. Other than the brat stands, that place is a hovel.

Had to look that one up. My daughter is studying for the SAT. I'll put it on her list.

Post #: 3198

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 8:10:26 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28649
Status: offline

What ever happened to the surrounding area that was supposed to be developed to enhance the fan experience? It's next to nothing, more like a bunch of temporary stuff you'd see at a traveling circus. The area behind the stadium is a dirt covered dumping ground.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 10/11/2023 8:15:16 AM >

Post #: 3199

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/11/2023 8:22:43 AM

joejitsu

Posts: 15425
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I guess I just need a VIP press pass, enter and leave through the players’ secret door, have all access to every area, and then I can rank it #2 also.

Genuinely curious... have you been to stadiums that prefer?

I've only been to a handful... so I don't really have much to compare.
I find U.S. Bank to be nice but maybe not spectacular.
I don't really feel like concourses or bathrooms or even traffic are much of an issue but I have heard those complaints by other people.

Anyone ever go to the bathroom at Soldiers Field during a game? Ha, we have it good

I've never been to the Bank, but I've been to several events at Soldier Field. Other than the brat stands, that place is a hovel.

Had to look that one up. My daughter is studying for the SAT. I'll put it on her list.