quote:

Not being Spielman outweighed any other factor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: timz

When Kwesi was hired I put a post on this board questioning the hiring of someone out of the Cleveland organization, one of the few franchises with less success over the years than MN. I was mocked and run off the board. Fans are sure singing a different tune now.

If you were mocked, it was because he spent 6 years with SF and then 1 with CLE.

Not being Spielman outweighed any other factor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

It was a tremendous draft if you use your own copyrighted draft criteria: anyone with starts, even horrible starters = great draft pick.

Sadly, even by that standard, we get a fail.

Can you please amend your standard to include ‘showing improvement on special teams’? Maybe give Kwesi a shot …

Ingram is a horrible starter?
Evans is a horrible starter?

Usually 1st and 2nd round have pro bowlers and there is but one so far.

When you look at that draft it isn't only underwelming for our team.

Bill's original post was for the first two rounds. My post was mostly about Cine ... but

hanging your hat on Ingram - out of Cine-Booth-Ingram - is still a fail.

(Evans is also a fail until, 1) he stops deflecting passes to WRs in the endzone or, 2) he shows he can stay on the field).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

Oh, so you thought we were going places while being 1-3 or 1-4. Got it

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

Oh, so you thought we were going places while being 1-3 or 1-4. Got it

Losing JJeff is the big one actually but once again you may not get it....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

Actually Ingram has improved the last 2 games....but you wouldn't get that either since it is a differing opinion. Similar to what I said at the beginning of the year about him....

When is the trade deadline Bill? That is the reason he see if you can't reel off some wins.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

Oh, so you thought we were going places while being 1-3 or 1-4. Got it

Losing JJeff is the big one actually but once again you may not get it....

He's on IR for four weeks, not the season. But he doesn't matter in this.. point is, after being 1-3 or 1-4 you thought we we still in the mix!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

Actually Ingram has improved the last 2 games....but you wouldn't get that either since it is a differing opinion. Similar to what I said at the beginning of the year about him....

When is the trade deadline Bill? That is the reason he see if you can't reel off some wins.....

So Ingram is trending!! LMAO.

That last part about the trade deadline and "he see" makes no sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

Oh, so you thought we were going places while being 1-3 or 1-4. Got it

Losing JJeff is the big one actually but once again you may not get it....

He's on IR for four weeks, not the season. But he doesn't matter in this.. point is, after being 1-3 or 1-4 you thought we we still in the mix!

Actually the schedule is easier the next 8 weeks and there was a chance to make the playoffs but w/o JJ the next 4 weeks it becomes almost impossible....but you probably already know that even if it was a different opinion than yours.

Tanking never is the answer....always try to make the playoffs but now that it looks like we can't....that changes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

Actually Ingram has improved the last 2 games....but you wouldn't get that either since it is a differing opinion. Similar to what I said at the beginning of the year about him....

When is the trade deadline Bill? That is the reason he see if you can't reel off some wins.....

So Ingram is trending!! LMAO.

That last part about the trade deadline and "he see" makes no sense.

Trending? Not sure what the means:

How the Vikings offensive linemen ranked among their respective positions in week 5:

Christian Darrisaw: 1st (of 67 tackles)
Garrett Bradbury: 2nd (of 32 centers)
Ezra Cleveland: 6th (of 67 guards)
Ed Ingram: 10th (of 67 guards)
Brian O'Neill: 31st (of 67 tackles)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

Actually Ingram has improved the last 2 games....but you wouldn't get that either since it is a differing opinion. Similar to what I said at the beginning of the year about him....

When is the trade deadline Bill? That is the reason he see if you can't reel off some wins.....

So Ingram is trending!! LMAO.

That last part about the trade deadline and "he see" makes no sense.

Trending? Not sure what the means:

How the Vikings offensive linemen ranked among their respective positions in week 5:

Christian Darrisaw: 1st (of 67 tackles)
Garrett Bradbury: 2nd (of 32 centers)
Ezra Cleveland: 6th (of 67 guards)
Ed Ingram: 10th (of 67 guards)
Brian O'Neill: 31st (of 67 tackles)

To hang your hat on Cine-Booth-Ingram being anything but a failure based on a week 5 PFF grade is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, even for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

Oh, so you thought we were going places while being 1-3 or 1-4. Got it

Losing JJeff is the big one actually but once again you may not get it....

He's on IR for four weeks, not the season. But he doesn't matter in this.. point is, after being 1-3 or 1-4 you thought we we still in the mix!

Actually the schedule is easier the next 8 weeks and there was a chance to make the playoffs but w/o JJ the next 4 weeks it becomes almost impossible....but you probably already know that even if it was a different opinion than yours.

Tanking never is the answer....always try to make the playoffs but now that it looks like we can't....that changes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

Actually Ingram has improved the last 2 games....but you wouldn't get that either since it is a differing opinion. Similar to what I said at the beginning of the year about him....

When is the trade deadline Bill? That is the reason he see if you can't reel off some wins.....

So Ingram is trending!! LMAO.

That last part about the trade deadline and "he see" makes no sense.

Trending? Not sure what the means:

How the Vikings offensive linemen ranked among their respective positions in week 5:

Christian Darrisaw: 1st (of 67 tackles)
Garrett Bradbury: 2nd (of 32 centers)
Ezra Cleveland: 6th (of 67 guards)
Ed Ingram: 10th (of 67 guards)
Brian O'Neill: 31st (of 67 tackles)

To hang your hat on Cine-Booth-Ingram being anything but a failure based on a week 5 PFF grade is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, even for you.

Hanging my hat? Ranking Ingram in week 5 is the same as ranking him in week 1....too early to tell (same thing I said in week 1). Cine and Booth probably too early to tell also. Like I said I wanted Davis.
If you want to disparage Kwesi about the 2022 draft; go ahead...it isn't looking like a great draft for many teams but you better give him some credit for 2023; which you do struggle with. Oh and 2023 draft is way too early to tell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

Oh, so you thought we were going places while being 1-3 or 1-4. Got it

Losing JJeff is the big one actually but once again you may not get it....

He's on IR for four weeks, not the season. But he doesn't matter in this.. point is, after being 1-3 or 1-4 you thought we we still in the mix!

Actually the schedule is easier the next 8 weeks and there was a chance to make the playoffs but w/o JJ the next 4 weeks it becomes almost impossible....but you probably already know that even if it was a different opinion than yours.

Tanking never is the answer....always try to make the playoffs but now that it looks like we can't....that changes.

So tanking is never the answer...until it is?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

Actually Ingram has improved the last 2 games....but you wouldn't get that either since it is a differing opinion. Similar to what I said at the beginning of the year about him....

When is the trade deadline Bill? That is the reason he see if you can't reel off some wins.....

So Ingram is trending!! LMAO.

That last part about the trade deadline and "he see" makes no sense.

Trending? Not sure what the means:

How the Vikings offensive linemen ranked among their respective positions in week 5:

Christian Darrisaw: 1st (of 67 tackles)
Garrett Bradbury: 2nd (of 32 centers)
Ezra Cleveland: 6th (of 67 guards)
Ed Ingram: 10th (of 67 guards)
Brian O'Neill: 31st (of 67 tackles)

To hang your hat on Cine-Booth-Ingram being anything but a failure based on a week 5 PFF grade is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, even for you.

Hanging my hat? Ranking Ingram in week 5 is the same as ranking him in week 1....too early to tell (same thing I said in week 1). Cine and Booth probably too early to tell also. Like I said I wanted Davis.
If you want to disparage Kwesi about the 2022 draft; go ahead...it isn't looking like a great draft for many teams but you better give him some credit for 2023; which you do struggle with. Oh and 2023 draft is way too early to tell.

Well you hang in there with Cine, Booth, and Ingram for however many more years

It's not looking like a "great" draft for many teams? How about a good draft? See, it's ok to have a good draft. Since you keep bringing it up, care to offer (for once) a well-researched opinion on how the 2022 draft is going league wide? Provide factual data. Don't move the goalposts.

And the 2023 draft is ok so far, nice try.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.
On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.
For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.
I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

That's not necessarily true.
In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.
In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015
In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019
In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.

You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother.

You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories.

And I'd take the Giants history.

Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then.

LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking.

Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

Oh, so you thought we were going places while being 1-3 or 1-4. Got it

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures:

- A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild.
- Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

I hate trading back, take the best person available.

Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

Why is it always "Pro Bowl or bust" with you?

If you get players that are legit starters (and not starters by default), its a successful draft. If you get Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, you've gone above and beyond.

Weirdly, he counts below average players who start as proof of a successful draft then turns around and says the entire draft isn't that good, is "looking thin", and is "underwhelming" because it lacks pro-bowlers.

Actually Ingram has improved the last 2 games....but you wouldn't get that either since it is a differing opinion. Similar to what I said at the beginning of the year about him....

When is the trade deadline Bill? That is the reason he see if you can't reel off some wins.....

So Ingram is trending!! LMAO.

That last part about the trade deadline and "he see" makes no sense.

Trending? Not sure what the means:

How the Vikings offensive linemen ranked among their respective positions in week 5:

Christian Darrisaw: 1st (of 67 tackles)
Garrett Bradbury: 2nd (of 32 centers)
Ezra Cleveland: 6th (of 67 guards)
Ed Ingram: 10th (of 67 guards)
Brian O'Neill: 31st (of 67 tackles)

To hang your hat on Cine-Booth-Ingram being anything but a failure based on a week 5 PFF grade is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, even for you.

Hanging my hat? Ranking Ingram in week 5 is the same as ranking him in week 1....too early to tell (same thing I said in week 1). Cine and Booth probably too early to tell also. Like I said I wanted Davis.
If you want to disparage Kwesi about the 2022 draft; go ahead...it isn't looking like a great draft for many teams but you better give him some credit for 2023; which you do struggle with. Oh and 2023 draft is way too early to tell.

Well you hang in there with Cine, Booth, and Ingram for however many more years

It's not looking like a "great" draft for many teams? How about a good draft? See, it's ok to have a good draft. Since you keep bringing it up, care to offer (for once) a well-researched opinion on how the 2022 draft is going league wide? Provide factual data. Don't move the goalposts.

And the 2023 draft is ok so far, nice try.

Weird, again I wanted Davis and I think I remember who you wanted.....but continue on with the hanging your hat analogy.

Roy, Addison, and Pace have been getting good rankings but I actually am waiting on them also.