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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 3:35:20 PM   
stfrank

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Dobbs accuracy definitely needs work. He's often a bit too high or a bit too behind his target. Maybe more reps with his teammates will help that some. Or maybe its a ceiling on his ability.

I still think he's a very good candidate to be a "bridge QB" with us drafting a rookie, but Dobbs himself is likely not the long-term answer.

That said, I don't want to judge Dobbs too harshly on last night. His fumble on the first drive was the result of a blatant dirty hit that went uncalled. And his INT was directly caused by Chandler completely missing his block.

But even with that, Denver had made top QBs look like crap the previous 2 weeks.

MIN: Dobbs: 221 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble.
BUF: Allen: 177 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble.
KC: Mahomes: 240 Passing Yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. 0 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble.

How bad would it look for the game officials if Jackson gets suspended again as a repeat offender?

In my opinion the NFL will look worse if they don't suspend him for that dirty hit.
Post #: 5151
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 3:40:00 PM   
David Levine


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DENVER -- Vikings quarterback Josh Dobbs lost a first-quarter fumble Sunday night on a questionable hit by Denver Broncos safety Kareem Jackson, a play that marked a key turn of events in Minnesota's eventual 21-20 loss.

Watching in real time from the sideline, Vikings coach Kevin O'Connell said he thought that Jackson -- playing in his first game back following a two-game suspension for similar hits -- should have been penalized after lowering his head and driving the top of his helmet into Dobbs' chest and face mask.

One of the NFL's health and safety spotters noted the contact and sent Dobbs to undergo a concussion check, which he passed. But the Broncos recovered the fumble at the Vikings' 30-yard line and ultimately turned it into a 31-yard field goal from Wil Lutz.

-------

Jackson was suspended for three games, reduced to two on appeal, after hitting Green Bay Packers tight end Luke Musgrave when he was in a defenseless position in Week 7.

In addition to his suspension, Jackson has been fined four times this season and ejected from two games.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38942251/vikings-coach-kevin-oconnell-questions-broncos-safety-kareem-jackson-hit-josh-dobbs
Post #: 5152
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 3:41:06 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

Jackson -- playing in his first game back following a two-game suspension for similar hits...

Jackson was suspended for three games, reduced to two on appeal, after hitting Green Bay Packers tight end Luke Musgrave when he was in a defenseless position in Week 7.

In addition to his suspension, Jackson has been fined four times this season and ejected from two games.


Prototype Sean Payton player.
Post #: 5153
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 3:58:23 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Frustrating loss last night, for sure. Guess just years of being a jaded Viking, fan but pretty much played out as i expected the longer the game went on.

Some random thoughts

- I know Flores defense got beat late, but still crazy what he's been able to do with this unit. It has to be incredibly difficult for these guy to be in the right places after all their switches at the line, etc., but they continue to do it.

- The run defense continues to be pretty darn good. I was pretty harsh on this D line early in the season, but they are getting done. Jevonte Williams in no joke.

- Russel Wilson is so washed. Little annoying losing to him at this point in his career. Denver is going nowhere, and I"m sure at this point, they are trying to figure out the best way to get out of his awful contract. He killed them dinking an dunking, he has no deep ball. Bad DB play all night vs soft balls iMO.

- Our DBs just looked bad across the board. Not sure what Blackmon was doing on that Sutton TD, like he just watched the play happen in front of him. We have a thing with our CBs constantly getting Mossed. Mettelus drop was big. One thing I will say, is I don't know if I remember any PI calls on our secondary this year. Pretty crazy really. We have to be amongst the least penalized team in the league, in that area.

- IOL seemed awful last night, particularly in pass protection. Bradbury has no more ceiling, and we need to upgrade C badly. For all the hype on Risner, he showing maybe why he was sitting on his couch. He's not all that.

- Dobbs has been fun, but against a good D on the road, he showed his limitations. We have virtually no vertical passing game, but running Powell, Addison, KJ, you aint' gonna win me deep balls IMO. Those heaves are just diving me nuts. Needless to say he will pay big time for those eventually.

- Needless to say, was not a fan of running it twice late in the game at the 10 yard line.

- I guess at the end of the day, the game wasn't too costly. They ain't catching the Lions and that roster, but really just a matter of holding onto that 3rd playoff spot. The Bengals in Cincy without Burrow, will be no cake walk. That's still a very good roster.

- For me this is a bonus year anyway. I thought the team was highly overrated last year. this team may be better in a weird sort of way. You can see some corner stones of the future. The team will be in very good cap shape going into next year. Still need to get QB figured out. 23 draft looking better than 22. Let's just hope 22 is the anomaly and not 23


Agree with this post. There are more games this season to evaluate Dobbs. My take is that he's a backup, not a starter so yes keep looking for the QB. For a guy as smart as Dobbs is, he's really, really careless with the football. He doesn't seem very accurate, especially on deep passes. I think he'd add a very nice change up as a backup with his running ability. But, he's definitely limited in his skill set. I'd like to see Chandler start and Mattison be the backup. There were a few runs by Mattison where he made nice gains but I felt that a runner with more speed could have exploited those holes for much bigger gains. Odd how they drafted a running back this year that seems to be a Mattison clone rather than someone more dynamic.
Post #: 5154
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 5:32:32 PM   
marty


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I was disappointed Dobbs (and KOC) had no answer to the heavy blitzing we all knew was coming on the last drive.

I was hoping on 2nd down Dobbs would beat the defender to the corner, and gain 10-20 yards. Or, quickly decide to take off running up the gut, and break that for at least 10 yards.

He also can't seem to pass accurately, and consistently on 15+ yard passes.

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Post #: 5155
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 5:38:23 PM   
marty


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I think Dobbs was unlikely to prevent the fumble that was jarred lose a second before he was illegally hit by a helmet.

That was an obvious penalty that should have been called. The officials that missed that could probably care less, will not be reprimanded, and will not apologize.

IF they wanted Denver to be in it, or to win it at the end, it was a successful non-call.

Alex Boone thought it was a legitimate non-call, that once the QB leaves the pocket he's fair game to get hit.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5156
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 5:57:08 PM   
stfrank

 

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From: Twin Cities
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

Jackson -- playing in his first game back following a two-game suspension for similar hits...

Jackson was suspended for three games, reduced to two on appeal, after hitting Green Bay Packers tight end Luke Musgrave when he was in a defenseless position in Week 7.

In addition to his suspension, Jackson has been fined four times this season and ejected from two games.


Prototype Sean Payton player.

Payton will probably pay him a bonus this week......
Post #: 5157
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 6:01:13 PM   
fmaltes

 

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We have more games to evaluate Dobbs. Still, he showed some of the weaknesses he had shown historically. Prone to turnovers. Has an adequate, but not elite arm. Telegraphing where he is throwing. Not a timing thrower even though he did not have the preseason or training camp. Still, we have several more games to evaluate him.

Chandler had one good pass block, but several bad misses that really cost the Vikings. He is definitely the number one running talent, but is a real liability as a blocker.

KOC said he needed to continue to be aggressive in the second half and then did the exact opposite on the field goal instead of going for it on 4th down. I you are willing to do a fake punt, continue being aggressive.
Post #: 5158
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 6:04:31 PM   
marty


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Maybe each team should get 1 or 2 no call challenges a game (1 each half), that they can use, but it has to be something obvious like this hit with the crown of the helmet, to overturn a play.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5159
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 6:06:40 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Dobbs was unlikely to prevent the fumble that was jarred lose a second before he was illegally hit by a helmet.

That was an obvious penalty that should have been called. The officials that missed that could probably care less, will not be reprimanded, and will not apologize.

IF they wanted Denver to be in it, or to win it at the end, it was a successful non-call.

Alex Boone thought it was a legitimate non-call, that once the QB leaves the pocket he's fair game to get hit.


He is fair game as he becomes a RB.

But that's a very illegal hit on a RB as well,
Post #: 5160
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 6:17:38 PM   
Phil Riewer


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4 game suspension for Jackson.

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Post #: 5161
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 6:42:04 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.


Too little, too late.

He wasn't even supposed to play last night, but the league stupidly reduced his latest suspension...
Post #: 5162
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 6:47:23 PM   
David Levine


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Here is the video:

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1726740515226329156
Post #: 5163
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 6:50:57 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Dobbs was unlikely to prevent the fumble that was jarred lose a second before he was illegally hit by a helmet.

That was an obvious penalty that should have been called. The officials that missed that could probably care less, will not be reprimanded, and will not apologize.

IF they wanted Denver to be in it, or to win it at the end, it was a successful non-call.

Alex Boone thought it was a legitimate non-call, that once the QB leaves the pocket he's fair game to get hit.


He is fair game as he becomes a RB.

But that's a very illegal hit on a RB as well,



that's on o'connell - don't ask your starting QB to play running back....

loss last night in on o'connell...played for a field goal at the end...thought he might have learned after last week....

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5164
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 7:02:36 PM   
Ricky J


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

Jackson -- playing in his first game back following a two-game suspension for similar hits...

Jackson was suspended for three games, reduced to two on appeal, after hitting Green Bay Packers tight end Luke Musgrave when he was in a defenseless position in Week 7.

In addition to his suspension, Jackson has been fined four times this season and ejected from two games.


Prototype Sean Payton player.

Payton will probably pay him a bonus this week......

I have the feeling the officials didn't have the guts to call it.

- Looking forward to seeing the fines, etc this week
Post #: 5165
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 7:04:47 PM   
Ricky J


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Here is the video:

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1726740515226329156

Damn!!!
Post #: 5166
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 7:11:02 PM   
Ricky J


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Ben Goessling
@BenGoessling
·
2h
Since 2021, the #Vikings have played 36 one-score games, the most in the NFL. After winning 11 of them last year, they’re 5-5 in those games this year, with a clear culprit: turnovers.
Post #: 5167
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 8:09:51 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9651
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Here is the video:

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1726740515226329156

Damn!!!



o'connell put dobbs in that position - never should have happened....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5168
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 8:10:16 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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From: Southern Cal
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I had a crew over last night as my neighbor is a Broncos fan so it was hard to pay "normal" attention to the game and not be a terrible host. Just rewatched it. I use to do this pretty regularly because it's really good to take the emotion out of it.


Things that I noticed (not that anyone cares )


That first fumble was a comedy of errors. #1 - why the hell are you calling a trick play, first series, on the road, that makes your new starter a glorified running back when your backup hasn't taken a snap in what, years? Just the dumbest play call KOC has called since he's been HC. Don't even consider where, on the field it was called. That's a different argument (and about as dumb but I digress). #2 - Yes. It was a blatant penalty that keeps the drive going and, unless we make another dumb TO, doesn't gift them 3 in a game we lost by 1.

We started to get rolling but as others have mentioned. As fun as Dobbs has been, he is not an accurate passer of the football. He just misses some absolute gimme's. His athletism is off the charts and he is a beast to bring down but if he could pinpoint the ball he'd be an elite QB.

In the 3rd quarter, as we were starting to take control before the AM fumble (I can't spell and Bill yells at me ), there were 2 plays back-2-back that scream we still suck at communications. The rage was KC's couldn't get the play off in time. 2 plays in a row. #1 - Bradbury snaps the ball and Dobb fumbles it but recovers on first down. That was clearly on Bradbury. He snaps it as Dobbs is still scanning the field and nobody but GB moves. #2 - Next play. A really nice gain that is called back because Ingram is illegally down field. The weird thing about is that he didn't just drift down accidently. He fires off the line like it's a run play in his head. A clear miscommunication somewhere.


There was also a Metellus INT drop in the EZ that gifted them 3 and I don't even want to talk about the last drive. 1 minute, 3 TO's and just need a FG to win? To me, this was on play calling. We wasted the opportunity big time and it's on KOC, IMO.

in that situation, your first play should be positive yards and then hurry up. You can't let the ball hit the ground. Yeah, it stops the clock, but it also lets them sub. Spread them out and run a QB draw, or something. Then you can go no huddle and they can't sub. They are on their heals. Shit, it's Mile High. Get it to the 40 and you have a chance. That whole series was just a coaching disaster.

Just things like that and 3 TO's kill you.
Post #: 5169
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 8:26:32 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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This league is a joke BTW. I'm watching Monday night (Eagles at Chiefs). I could care less who wins. A meteor to stadium would be fine by me but the officiating is an absolute joke. Remember when the league "cracked down" on the Chiefs RT for always lining up offside? Opening day they called it like twice in 4 plays, or something like that.


That dude is a full half yard farther back than the guys that aren't allowed to cover him or else it would be an illegal formation. It's just ridiculous Look up the stills that the internet will post tomorrow if you aren't watching. They aren't fake.

In fact, It shocks me that Reid lets him do that. It's so obvious when they are running versus passing based on his alignment.
Post #: 5170
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 9:24:31 PM   
marty


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Hurts just beat a blitz with a 10 yard TD run up the gut, with what looked like a guard pulling.

Why couldn't the Vikings have done that on a play on their last drive ?

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5171
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 11:23:08 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.

Obviously this idiot can't help himself.

So, how do you get him to stop? Start fining coaches for egregious repeat offenders. Take away draft picks.
Post #: 5172
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/20/2023 11:31:16 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Here is the video:

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1726740515226329156

Damn!!!

Broncos safety Justin Simmons defended Jackson.

I wonder if Darrisaw had a running start and stuck his helmet into Simmons chin he might change his tune.
Post #: 5173
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 12:25:28 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.

Obviously this idiot can't help himself.

So, how do you get him to stop? Start fining coaches for egregious repeat offenders. Take away draft picks.


Payton was suspended for a full year and lost almost 8M and it didn't have any effect on him or his teams.
Post #: 5174
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 9:19:48 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.

Obviously this idiot can't help himself.

So, how do you get him to stop? Start fining coaches for egregious repeat offenders. Take away draft picks.


Payton was suspended for a full year and lost almost 8M and it didn't have any effect on him or his teams.

Bountygate encouraged all players to take guys out for $$$.

This is one guy who keeps on doing it. For whatever reason. He's lost a couple steps and now believes he needs to be an enforcer to keep a job.

I think if you said Payton would get 500K fine, Vance Joseph 100K fine and you lose a 3rd rounder in 2024, he would stop launching his helmet into other player's heads.

NFLPA would never allow it though.

Jackson could seriously injure someone for life if he keeps doing it.
Post #: 5175
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