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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 9:55:33 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18338
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.

Obviously this idiot can't help himself.

So, how do you get him to stop? Start fining coaches for egregious repeat offenders. Take away draft picks.


Payton was suspended for a full year and lost almost 8M and it didn't have any effect on him or his teams.


Anybody else almost puke the number of times they showed him on camera Mon night, the gum-chewing pos with an ugly-ass smile? I watch 95% on mute so at least I didn't hear what they had to say about him.

- he brings out the bad in me
Post #: 5176
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 10:09:17 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.

Obviously this idiot can't help himself.

So, how do you get him to stop? Start fining coaches for egregious repeat offenders. Take away draft picks.


Payton was suspended for a full year and lost almost 8M and it didn't have any effect on him or his teams.


Anybody else almost puke the number of times they showed him on camera Mon night, the gum-chewing pos with an ugly-ass smile? I watch 95% on mute so at least I didn't hear what they had to say about him.

- he brings out the bad in me

Who was the guy who unloaded on Mattison in 2nd half. 2 guys had him held up and then a guy came in like a missile with a helmet to Mattison's upper half. Mattison looks at ref who was looking right at it and ref just shrugs it off.
Post #: 5177
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 10:32:28 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.

Obviously this idiot can't help himself.

So, how do you get him to stop? Start fining coaches for egregious repeat offenders. Take away draft picks.


Payton was suspended for a full year and lost almost 8M and it didn't have any effect on him or his teams.

Bountygate encouraged all players to take guys out for $$$.

This is one guy who keeps on doing it. For whatever reason. He's lost a couple steps and now believes he needs to be an enforcer to keep a job.

I think if you said Payton would get 500K fine, Vance Joseph 100K fine and you lose a 3rd rounder in 2024, he would stop launching his helmet into other player's heads.

NFLPA would never allow it though.

Jackson could seriously injure someone for life if he keeps doing it.


You're also putting yourself at serious risk of a spinal injury leading with your head like that.

I never want anyone to get hurt, but that would be karma...
Post #: 5178
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 10:46:00 AM   
marty


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Missing the hits to Dobbs and Mattison, obvious fouls leading with the helmet, either indicates the refs didn't like the Vikings, or they preferred Denver had a shot at covering the spread.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5179
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 10:49:21 AM   
marty


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I remember a few years back the Vikings lost to a team that got away with some hits like that.

The Vikings must have looked at film and figured they needed to get more physical with their next opponent, and were flagged for unnecessary roughness.

I could see the Vikings getting flagged for unnecessary roughness next week against the Bears, probably in the first half.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5180
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 10:49:22 AM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

Posts: 1186
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Ben Goessling
@BenGoessling
·
2h
Since 2021, the #Vikings have played 36 one-score games, the most in the NFL. After winning 11 of them last year, they’re 5-5 in those games this year, with a clear culprit: turnovers.


The game has changed a lot over the years but there's at least one constant that remains...lose the turnover battle and you're likely to lose the game.
Post #: 5181
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 10:55:32 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Missing the hits to Dobbs and Mattison, obvious fouls leading with the helmet, either indicates the refs didn't like the Vikings, or they preferred Denver had a shot at covering the spread.


Or, and bear with me - this is a little bit nuts, maybe they just missed it in real time.
Post #: 5182
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 11:51:15 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5819
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

4 game suspension for Jackson.

Obviously this idiot can't help himself.

So, how do you get him to stop? Start fining coaches for egregious repeat offenders. Take away draft picks.


Payton was suspended for a full year and lost almost 8M and it didn't have any effect on him or his teams.

Bountygate encouraged all players to take guys out for $$$.

This is one guy who keeps on doing it. For whatever reason. He's lost a couple steps and now believes he needs to be an enforcer to keep a job.

I think if you said Payton would get 500K fine, Vance Joseph 100K fine and you lose a 3rd rounder in 2024, he would stop launching his helmet into other player's heads.

NFLPA would never allow it though.

Jackson could seriously injure someone for life if he keeps doing it.


You're also putting yourself at serious risk of a spinal injury leading with your head like that.

I never want anyone to get hurt, but that would be karma...

Watched the Raiders RB Jacobs get called for lowering his helmet. I think he's been called several times. Caught me by surprise. Also saw a wr facemask penalty on a straightarm ... another rarity.

Its not as bad as world cup soccer (unless you are watching Mahomes closely who's a world class flopper) ... but the refs just seem to be more iffy as I go along. Maybe part of my 'get off my grass' age.
Post #: 5183
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 11:55:49 AM   
kevinemmer


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From: Bozeman, MT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I had a crew over last night as my neighbor is a Broncos fan so it was hard to pay "normal" attention to the game and not be a terrible host. Just rewatched it. I use to do this pretty regularly because it's really good to take the emotion out of it.


Things that I noticed (not that anyone cares )


That first fumble was a comedy of errors. #1 - why the hell are you calling a trick play, first series, on the road, that makes your new starter a glorified running back when your backup hasn't taken a snap in what, years? Just the dumbest play call KOC has called since he's been HC. Don't even consider where, on the field it was called. That's a different argument (and about as dumb but I digress). #2 - Yes. It was a blatant penalty that keeps the drive going and, unless we make another dumb TO, doesn't gift them 3 in a game we lost by 1.

We started to get rolling but as others have mentioned. As fun as Dobbs has been, he is not an accurate passer of the football. He just misses some absolute gimme's. His athletism is off the charts and he is a beast to bring down but if he could pinpoint the ball he'd be an elite QB.

In the 3rd quarter, as we were starting to take control before the AM fumble (I can't spell and Bill yells at me ), there were 2 plays back-2-back that scream we still suck at communications. The rage was KC's couldn't get the play off in time. 2 plays in a row. #1 - Bradbury snaps the ball and Dobb fumbles it but recovers on first down. That was clearly on Bradbury. He snaps it as Dobbs is still scanning the field and nobody but GB moves. #2 - Next play. A really nice gain that is called back because Ingram is illegally down field. The weird thing about is that he didn't just drift down accidently. He fires off the line like it's a run play in his head. A clear miscommunication somewhere.


There was also a Metellus INT drop in the EZ that gifted them 3 and I don't even want to talk about the last drive. 1 minute, 3 TO's and just need a FG to win? To me, this was on play calling. We wasted the opportunity big time and it's on KOC, IMO.

in that situation, your first play should be positive yards and then hurry up. You can't let the ball hit the ground. Yeah, it stops the clock, but it also lets them sub. Spread them out and run a QB draw, or something. Then you can go no huddle and they can't sub. They are on their heals. Shit, it's Mile High. Get it to the 40 and you have a chance. That whole series was just a coaching disaster.

Just things like that and 3 TO's kill you.


Good stuff JJ.
A 2nd viewing is always illuminating.

In other news, Barr was like a ghost in terms of impact.
Same as it ever was.
I think he was #54.
Post #: 5184
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 12:51:16 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18338
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Missing the hits to Dobbs and Mattison, obvious fouls leading with the helmet, either indicates the refs didn't like the Vikings, or they preferred Denver had a shot at covering the spread.


Or, and bear with me - this is a little bit nuts, maybe they just missed it in real time.

HS federation procedure manual says, only call what you see 100% - no guessing
Post #: 5185
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 2:03:26 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Missing the hits to Dobbs and Mattison, obvious fouls leading with the helmet, either indicates the refs didn't like the Vikings, or they preferred Denver had a shot at covering the spread.


Or, and bear with me - this is a little bit nuts, maybe they just missed it in real time.

HS federation procedure manual says, only call what you see 100% - no guessing

But, the NFL does have "expediated review" or "replay assist" where the officials get help from someone in a booth.

So, when you see a guy coming in helmet 1st, throw the flag, and if it was legal(call from booth), pick up the flag.

Officials have scouting reports too. Who holds, who is likely for PI. Jackson should have been on the 'watch list'
Post #: 5186
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 2:49:06 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Missing the hits to Dobbs and Mattison, obvious fouls leading with the helmet, either indicates the refs didn't like the Vikings, or they preferred Denver had a shot at covering the spread.


Or, and bear with me - this is a little bit nuts, maybe they just missed it in real time.

HS federation procedure manual says, only call what you see 100% - no guessing

But, the NFL does have "expediated review" or "replay assist" where the officials get help from someone in a booth.

So, when you see a guy coming in helmet 1st, throw the flag, and if it was legal(call from booth), pick up the flag.

Officials have scouting reports too. Who holds, who is likely for PI. Jackson should have been on the 'watch list'


The weird part is since it was a turnover, the play had to be reviewed anyways.

And as we saw recently, we got an uncalled 12 men on the field penalty instated against us since they caught it while reviewing something else.

So can they not do that for judgement calls? That would be my guess, otherwise you would see holding calls added after the fact...
Post #: 5187
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 2:53:53 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10842
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Missing the hits to Dobbs and Mattison, obvious fouls leading with the helmet, either indicates the refs didn't like the Vikings, or they preferred Denver had a shot at covering the spread.


Or, and bear with me - this is a little bit nuts, maybe they just missed it in real time.

HS federation procedure manual says, only call what you see 100% - no guessing

But, the NFL does have "expediated review" or "replay assist" where the officials get help from someone in a booth.

So, when you see a guy coming in helmet 1st, throw the flag, and if it was legal(call from booth), pick up the flag.

Officials have scouting reports too. Who holds, who is likely for PI. Jackson should have been on the 'watch list'


The weird part is since it was a turnover, the play had to be reviewed anyways.

And as we saw recently, we got an uncalled 12 men on the field penalty instated against us since they caught it while reviewing something else.

So can they not do that for judgement calls? That would be my guess, otherwise you would see holding calls added after the fact...


Speaking of that uncalled 12-men-on-the-field penalty that showed up in the Green Bay game replay... I was at that game (subtle brag) and noticed how we were having trouble getting our guys off the field in time and I was wondering how/why this always seems to happen with Green Bay. So I started paying attention. Whenever the offense substitutes, the defense then also gets a chance to substitute and usually the ref will either hold the ball or stand over it so the offense can't snap it. I swear I watched the Green Bay offense substitute and then the ref just set the ball down while our guys were still finding out who was coming out. Then the packers would break huddle and sprint to the line to snap as fast as they could. In normal situations the ref would still be standing over the ball but I think the ref walks away because the offense is still in the huddle. The Packers are in that huddle waiting to see if the ref walks away from the ball. It doesn't seem like a good faith manipulation of the rule if you ask me.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5188
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 2:57:46 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18338
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Missing the hits to Dobbs and Mattison, obvious fouls leading with the helmet, either indicates the refs didn't like the Vikings, or they preferred Denver had a shot at covering the spread.


Or, and bear with me - this is a little bit nuts, maybe they just missed it in real time.

HS federation procedure manual says, only call what you see 100% - no guessing

But, the NFL does have "expediated review" or "replay assist" where the officials get help from someone in a booth.

So, when you see a guy coming in helmet 1st, throw the flag, and if it was legal(call from booth), pick up the flag.

Officials have scouting reports too. Who holds, who is likely for PI. Jackson should have been on the 'watch list'

Good points.

Isn't there situations with no calls that New York stops the action and informs the referee or maybe they tried it?

Here's what I think: a play that would take 10 seconds to review, get right, that causes a TO and possible concussion or worse and the player eventually gets suspended after a weekend review there should be a way of getting that right on the spot.

I would hate to see NY (is that where they're at?) calling in for tick tac bs but man there should be a balance in there somewhere.

First series of the game but one could argue it's a game changer right out of the gate. The fans, players, bettors, girlfriends, cats and dogs all deserve better. There's a lot on the line, a lot of energy that goes into winning in the NFL and when possible incompetent or bias officiating gets in the way of that it's bad deal

* post wrote up after Mark and before I saw Ds posts

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 11/21/2023 3:00:21 PM >
Post #: 5189
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 3:11:34 PM   
Ricky J


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Status: offline
A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is
Post #: 5190
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 3:22:09 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38923
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is


Chandler seems like a better runner right now, but he's terrible at blitz pick up/ protection.

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa
Post #: 5191
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 3:23:53 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is


Cook might be done.

He has 160 rushing yards in 10 games. Averaging 3.3 YPC with a long of 10 yards. He has 0 TDs and 1 Fumble.

He also has 10 receptions for 47 yards and no scores.
Post #: 5192
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 3:25:51 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38923
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is


Cook might be done.

He has 160 rushing yards in 10 games. Averaging 3.3 YPC with a long of 10 yards. He has 0 TDs and 1 Fumble.

He also has 10 receptions for 47 yards and no scores.


He's not the bellcow in New York like he was here. had he taken the restructure offer here he would be doing far better...That being said, I don't think it was a bad move to cut him loose. I personally thought Mattison would be much better than this...

Hindsight being what it is, it looks like we both made a good move and a bad one.

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa
Post #: 5193
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 3:32:10 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19189
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is

Keep Cook? He's officially Cooked! No way. We finally made a good decision to get rid of a veteran with diminishing skills. Cook is terrible.
Post #: 5194
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 3:35:16 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is


Cook might be done.

He has 160 rushing yards in 10 games. Averaging 3.3 YPC with a long of 10 yards. He has 0 TDs and 1 Fumble.

He also has 10 receptions for 47 yards and no scores.


He's not the bellcow in New York like he was here. had he taken the restructure offer here he would be doing far better...That being said, I don't think it was a bad move to cut him loose. I personally thought Mattison would be much better than this...

Hindsight being what it is, it looks like we both made a good move and a bad one.


If he was still good, he'd play more. But he isn;t doing anything with the snaps he does get.

The guy ahead of him is incredibly mediocre. He's had two really big runs, but he's been terrible in 7 of his 10 games.
Post #: 5195
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 5:39:41 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2287
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is


Cook might be done.

He has 160 rushing yards in 10 games. Averaging 3.3 YPC with a long of 10 yards. He has 0 TDs and 1 Fumble.

He also has 10 receptions for 47 yards and no scores.


He's not the bellcow in New York like he was here. had he taken the restructure offer here he would be doing far better...That being said, I don't think it was a bad move to cut him loose. I personally thought Mattison would be much better than this...

Hindsight being what it is, it looks like we both made a good move and a bad one.


If he was still good, he'd play more. But he isn;t doing anything with the snaps he does get.

The guy ahead of him is incredibly mediocre. He's had two really big runs, but he's been terrible in 7 of his 10 games.


The mistake wasn't letting Cook go.
The mistake was resigning Mattison as your starter.

Needed to find a Cook replacement in the offseason and failed.
Post #: 5196
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 6:10:42 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18338
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A thought I had last night - after another game changing fumble: ignoring the savings we got from Cook and where that money went etc, and there's no way of knowing bc maybe he would of fumbled 5 times himself, but I can't help but think we could have a couple more wins this year if we would have kept him. and other than recent run production by Chandler I can't see him making our running game worse than what it was/is


Cook might be done.

He has 160 rushing yards in 10 games. Averaging 3.3 YPC with a long of 10 yards. He has 0 TDs and 1 Fumble.

He also has 10 receptions for 47 yards and no scores.


He's not the bellcow in New York like he was here. had he taken the restructure offer here he would be doing far better...That being said, I don't think it was a bad move to cut him loose. I personally thought Mattison would be much better than this...

Hindsight being what it is, it looks like we both made a good move and a bad one.


If he was still good, he'd play more. But he isn;t doing anything with the snaps he does get.

The guy ahead of him is incredibly mediocre. He's had two really big runs, but he's been terrible in 7 of his 10 games.


The mistake wasn't letting Cook go.
The mistake was resigning Mattison as your starter.

Needed to find a Cook replacement in the offseason and failed.

My thought process was guided by game changing lost fumbles and poor blocking.

- I've said "game changing" three times today. I slow down now
Post #: 5197
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 6:21:29 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18338
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
Judd: Almost everyone of their [Vikings] defeats you can contribute to self inflicted wounds ...

- seems so
Post #: 5198
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 6:52:59 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40143
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
Are KOC’s okay calls from the 12 up by 2 self inflicted wounds?


I have no idea if he addressed that at all or questioned about it.
Post #: 5199
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/21/2023 6:58:29 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18338
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Are KOC’s okay calls from the 12 up by 2 self inflicted wounds?


I have no idea if he addressed that at all or questioned about it.

Im pretty sure the meaning of "self inflicted" had nothing to do with O'Connell's two runs from the 12 - but Ive been wrong before

-obviously, he's an idiot!
Post #: 5200
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