RE: General Vikes Talk

Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

RE: General Vikes Talk

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk

Page: << < prev 51 52 [53] 54 55 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 10:56:13 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I've never been less excited near the eve of a new season.

It seems like I say that every year...and every year I mean it.

Of course. It takes time to rebound from the previous year's disappointment.

We all know we're going to buy in on some level / start investing again in the following season. We're just wired that way.

This year's team, however, seems very unlikely to break that cycle of disappointment. Very unlikely.

"Every once in awhile a two-headed goat is born" so there's that argument ... you never know what can happen ...

Yeah ... Ok. Whatever floats your two-headed goat boat.

It's hard to imagine having a team that the consensus would be, "anything less than a SB appearance would be a disappointment." You pretty much have to have the best QB in the league for that to happen, or every other piece in order.

So, if we're going to get it, it'll be with a team not unlike this one, imo. The O has to go and the D has to be at least middle of the road or better for a sniff. Is there a chance?

Post #: 1301

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 11:20:23 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Last year was crazy fun, but I’m not sure how you build on it.

All the insane comebacks to win 1 score games when we were down at the half feels more like a statistical improbability than a direction forward.

We could be a better team and win 4 or 5 fewer games.

Post #: 1302

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 11:20:57 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Last year was crazy fun, but I’m not sure how you build on it.

All the insane comebacks to win 1 score games when we were down at the half feels more like a statistical improbability than a direction forward.

We could be a better team and win 4 or 5 fewer games.

Exactly.

Post #: 1303

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 11:22:41 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

If the defense is in the top 15 and we only won 11 games this season I would probably like our chances to win a playoff game over last year to be honest.

Post #: 1304

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 11:32:26 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

If the defense is in the top 15 and we only won 11 games this season I would probably like our chances to win a playoff game over last year to be honest.

If you can win one you can win two.

Post #: 1305

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 12:36:18 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I've never been less excited near the eve of a new season.

It seems like I say that every year...and every year I mean it.

Of course. It takes time to rebound from the previous year's disappointment.

We all know we're going to buy in on some level / start investing again in the following season. We're just wired that way.

This year's team, however, seems very unlikely to break that cycle of disappointment. Very unlikely.

"Every once in awhile a two-headed goat is born" so there's that argument ... you never know what can happen ...

Yeah ... Ok. Whatever floats your two-headed goat boat.

It's hard to imagine having a team that the consensus would be, "anything less than a SB appearance would be a disappointment." You pretty much have to have the best QB in the league for that to happen, or every other piece in order.

So, if we're going to get it, it'll be with a team not unlike this one, imo. The O has to go and the D has to be at least middle of the road or better for a sniff. Is there a chance?

Thats fair.

Afterall, the teams that start as SB favorites don’t win it probably as often as we think. It would not surprise me if teams NOT in the conversation for most likely to be in the SB (before the season) … win the SB as much as early presumptive favorites. Its the teams that get hot before / during the playoffs. Seems like it anyways.

I don’t need a top 3 or 4 or 5 tprojected team but I do need something more competitive than than the middle of the pack team that showed up for the playoffs last year … to raise my expectations.

Post #: 1306

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 12:41:01 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

If the defense is in the top 15 and we only won 11 games this season I would probably like our chances to win a playoff game over last year to be honest.

If you can win one you can win two.

Absolutely.

Post #: 1307

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 2:37:12 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28602
Status: offline

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

Post #: 1308

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/20/2023 3:18:50 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45020
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

They gave the Cleveland pick an A? That's a bit generous.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1309

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 12:01:32 AM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

When it comes to pre-season, sometimes there is a difference between "they're not showing too much" and "they're not showing too much", and sometimes they're about the same.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1310

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 7:22:23 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1311

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 8:07:13 AM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 13023
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline

2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker.

If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C-

Post #: 1312

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 8:13:00 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28602
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker.

If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C-

So basically what Metellus was doing with the first team according to a Seifert report.

Post #: 1313

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 8:13:48 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45020
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker.

If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C-

My less than expert opinion is that the biggest thing Cine needs to do is get his pads lower. I notice him being on time for plays, but whether it is trying to make a tackle or shed a block, he is always standing straight up. He has no leverage and as a result is getting knocked backwards during contact.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1314

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 8:17:46 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28602
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 8/21/2023 8:22:41 AM >

Post #: 1315

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 8:29:44 AM

stfrank

Posts: 11824
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Twin Cities
Status: online

Watching the Titans backups beat the snot out of our backups pretty much sums up our recent drafts in my opinion.

Post #: 1316

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 8:38:23 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

Watching the Titans backups beat the snot out of our backups pretty much sums up our recent drafts in my opinion.

Very true.

Spielman was a GM way longer than he should have been. He should have been fired after reaching on Ponder.

Post #: 1317

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 8:58:58 AM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 13023
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker.

If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C-

So basically what Metellus was doing with the first team according to a Seifert report.

True. But you can never have too many of those guys. They give a coordinator flexibility.

Again, this is all dependent on, is Cine actually up to the task? Still remains to be Cine. (Get it?)

Post #: 1318

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 9:02:08 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1319

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 10:00:40 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker.

If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C-

My less than expert opinion is that the biggest thing Cine needs to do is get his pads lower. I notice him being on time for plays, but whether it is trying to make a tackle or shed a block, he is always standing straight up. He has no leverage and as a result is getting knocked backwards during contact.

Isn't that something you learn in youth football?

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1320

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 10:07:07 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

Kwesi should have just taken the blue chip player in Hamilton vs getting cute with all the trade backs. He not only got burnt on the return (Det) trade value but also netted (what looks like) poorly picked players.

I'd take Hamilton over all of Cine, Booth, Ingram.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1321

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 10:14:09 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40687
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

Kwesi should have just taken the blue chip player in Hamilton vs getting cute with all the trade backs. He not only got burnt on the return (Det) trade value but also netted (what looks like) poorly picked players.

I'd take Hamilton over all of Cine, Booth, Ingram.

Agree. Frustrating.

Post #: 1322

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 10:37:30 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

So Ponder measures out as a good draft pick because he started?

Post #: 1323

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 11:02:01 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

So Ponder measures out as a good draft pick because he started?

lol ... ouch

Post #: 1324

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 11:11:44 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

Post #: 1325