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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 11:12:32 AM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 13023
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline

I’d say ‘positive contributor’ is a better benchmark than starter.

It depends on where you were drafted too. A high pick is more likely to be pencilled in as a starter right away and get by for a year or two just based on that before a team gives up on him. That makes him an unquestioned failed pick even though he was a starter for a while.

A lower pick probably has to work his way up to starter, based on merit. So that is more likely to be labeled a success.

Post #: 1326

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 11:33:00 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/21/2023 11:52:04 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1327

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 11:47:33 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45020
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Level 1, not stepping on the quarterback's foot.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1328

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 11:49:21 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker.

If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C-

My less than expert opinion is that the biggest thing Cine needs to do is get his pads lower. I notice him being on time for plays, but whether it is trying to make a tackle or shed a block, he is always standing straight up. He has no leverage and as a result is getting knocked backwards during contact.

Isn't that something you learn in youth football?

I would argue the opposite. Look at the long TD run. He was the last line of defense and instead of keeping his head up and squaring the back up, he put his head down to try and blow the guy up and he just leeped over him.

Post #: 1329

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 11:58:05 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.

Strawman.

Draft Picks don't need to be instant All-Pros to be good picks.

Ingram was terrible as a rookie. Doesn't look much better so far.

Post #: 1330

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 12:20:08 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.

Let's wait for the little birdies to stop circling around Evans head before we call him a hell of a pick.

Post #: 1331

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 12:36:31 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

Kwesi has yet to have a hell of a draft pick. Let's hope Pace at least turns out.

Post #: 1332

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 3:07:09 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.

Strawman.

Draft Picks don't need to be instant All-Pros to be good picks.

Ingram was terrible as a rookie. Doesn't look much better so far.

It would be as big of a strawman to say that Booth and Cine can't improve also....I can do that too.

Who were the guys as a back seat drafter that were so much better? I even stated Davis.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1333

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 3:07:54 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.

Let's wait for the little birdies to stop circling around Evans head before we call him a hell of a pick.

If you are calling Ingram shit before he plays a snap in his 2nd year I guess it would be about the same.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1334

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 3:50:30 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Shocking...

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
Looks like Cine is done for the day. He's watching DB drills off to the side after getting checked out by medical staff. Favoring right hip/leg.

Post #: 1335

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 3:53:53 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shocking...

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
Looks like Cine is done for the day. He's watching DB drills off to the side after getting checked out by medical staff. Favoring right hip/leg.

I'm not at all surprised.

Post #: 1336

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 5:56:49 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.

Let's wait for the little birdies to stop circling around Evans head before we call him a hell of a pick.

If you are calling Ingram shit before he plays a snap in his 2nd year I guess it would be about the same.

I said we should wait to call Evans a hell of a pick.

Then you started twisting logic and common sense like an animal balloon.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 8/21/2023 6:46:24 PM >

Post #: 1337

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 6:50:05 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer

When Asamoah participated in early installs, he and Ivan Pace Jr. took first-team reps.

Pace then got all the reps in 7v7 and 11v11 with Asamoah still limited w/ undisclosed injury.

There were even some reps (in walkthrough) where Asamoah and Pace were on the field together in what appeared to be a 3-3-5 nickel.

Post #: 1338

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 7:08:10 PM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

As a backseat drafter, I would have drafted QB Kenny Pickett, instead of trading back.

Pickett showed some flashes last year, but really hasn't shown a whole lot yet.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1339

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 10:39:47 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

As a backseat drafter, I would have drafted QB Kenny Pickett, instead of trading back.

Pickett showed some flashes last year, but really hasn't shown a whole lot yet.

Pickett? Howell last year or the UCLA QB this year. Pretty much same talent later in the draft.

A dynamic first rounder does not describe Pickett

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/21/2023 10:40:49 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1340

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 10:39:52 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28602
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.

Let's wait for the little birdies to stop circling around Evans head before we call him a hell of a pick.

If you are calling Ingram shit before he plays a snap in his 2nd year I guess it would be about the same.

You are in over your head again, this time getting simple players names mixed up. Or was that merely some weird drag of the goalpost?

Post #: 1341

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/21/2023 10:43:37 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Goal post dragging? You s said the 2022 and 2023 were shit. All I responded is how do you know? Even the guys we most wanted in 2022 Hamilton, Davis, and Williams haven’t lit the world on fire. 2023 season hasn’t even started to see how the newest rookies are doing.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/21/2023 10:48:25 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1342

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/22/2023 1:57:16 AM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Phil

I was saying Pickett before the draft, and am staying with him. I liked his highlight film over Howell's.

I did like the idea of taking a flyer on DTR, had him and Anthony Richardson in the 1st round. But it probably would have taken too much ammo to move up and get Richardson.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1343

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/22/2023 7:46:54 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Phil

I was saying Pickett before the draft, and am staying with him. I liked his highlight film over Howell's.

I did like the idea of taking a flyer on DTR, had him and Anthony Richardson in the 1st round. But it probably would have taken too much ammo to move up and get Richardson.

DTR was gettable later as was Howell; those are the two we should have went after.

I know you like Pickett....remember who his WR was?

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1344

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/22/2023 10:12:03 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Hockenson missing this much time for an "ear infection" seems odd to me. Of course I've never had a bad ear infection so I wouldn't know what he's going through if that's really the deal.

Post #: 1345

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/22/2023 10:12:21 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Cine whiffs on the RB.... TD

2022 draft... just keeps on giving

He did whiff on the RB. I give the RB some of the credit for making the play. Later in the game Cine makes a great tackle on Malik Willis during a goal line stand that held them to 3.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1346

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/22/2023 10:17:41 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

Kwesi should have just taken the blue chip player in Hamilton vs getting cute with all the trade backs. He not only got burnt on the return (Det) trade value but also netted (what looks like) poorly picked players.

I'd take Hamilton over all of Cine, Booth, Ingram.

The obvious pick was Jordan Davis. I'd have taken him over Hamilton in a heartbeat.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/22/2023 10:19:40 AM >

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Post #: 1347

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/22/2023 10:19:12 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson

2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash.

2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw
2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB.
2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ?

And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course.

You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler.

Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

I have seen posts about not trading back on the Williams pick (who has done almost nothing) and praise for Hamilton whose accolades are only the All Rookie team. My preference was Jordan Davis. None are all pro guys at this point.

Ingram is in his 2nd year; Cine is basically a rookie. Evans was doing well until the concussions hit.....he was a hell of a pick.