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RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 4:15:32 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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brace yourselves, we've lost tonga, dye, and schlottmann....

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Post #: 226
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 9:46:23 AM   
marty


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I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.

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Post #: 227
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 10:08:18 AM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


That’s my hunch too, though I hope he fares better than Richardson, otherwise be prepared for the Darnold era.

Close second hunch is Drake Maye. He seems like more of a KOC system guy.
Post #: 228
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 10:09:18 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39781
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.
Post #: 229
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 10:39:16 AM   
marty


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Status: online
Send Washington 2 1sts this year, and next year's 1st.

Washington knows it's very hard to get a franchise QB, and Kirk had more of a career as a 4th rounder, than RG III in the 1st round.

Washington can use one of the 1st round picks they get from the Vikings for McCarthy, Nix or Penix, and they have 2 more 1st rounders from Minnesota to acquire talent.

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Post #: 230
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 10:54:42 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 76824
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.
Post #: 231
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 10:56:18 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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Top 3 is going to be tough to get into as NE and Washington NEED a QB and its looking more and more like a Big 3.
Post #: 232
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:09:41 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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McNown coached Maye in HS???
Post #: 233
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:30:49 AM   
kgdabom

 

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I just watched the first 6:30 of Sam Darnold introductory presser. He's not comfortable in front of a mic/press. I didn't count but he probably had more than 100 ums and a handful of like I saids.

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Post #: 234
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:33:43 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

McNown coached Maye in HS???

Yes

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So let it be done."
Post #: 235
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:33:44 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27586
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.
Post #: 236
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:39:02 AM   
beo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.


The only way it works if NE isn't sold on qb.

They have a lot of holes to fill.
Just hired a defensive coach.
Small chance they could decide more draft picks are better way to go than a high end qb.
Post #: 237
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:42:10 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Think of how secure Minnesota would feel having secured the #2 pick. And conversely all the possibilities that could occur and uncertainty whereby no QB they like at #11 is around when it's time to pick.

Now we magically trade whereby Wash loses that security AND is suddenly just another team on the outside trying to get their QB from spot 11?

I don't think so. Not when you started at #2 and need a QB bad. Barring an absurd number of first rounders, extra picks won't be enough to change the QB equation.

Plus it's not a given that MHJ is an automatic pick at #4. There are two other very good WRs and Arizona might be happy with a trade down to get one of them plus picks. Or go OT or another direction entirely.
Post #: 238
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:49:11 AM   
Karl Juhnke


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Joined: 7/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.


The only way it works if NE isn't sold on qb.

They have a lot of holes to fill.
Just hired a defensive coach.
Small chance they could decide more draft picks are better way to go than a high end qb.


I think more than a small chance. They need a QB but they need everything. True, having a high pick in a QB rich draft is a chance that doesn't come along every year. But you never know. Strange things happen on draft day. All the top QBs are good, but Williams is probably the only closest thing to a sure thing. There is always risk involved. They may well decide that a bounty of picks is the faster and more prudent way to rebuild.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 3/16/2024 11:52:32 AM >
Post #: 239
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:52:50 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27586
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.


The only way it works if NE isn't sold on qb.

They have a lot of holes to fill.
Just hired a defensive coach.
Small chance they could decide more draft picks are better way to go than a high end qb.



That's true. And true for any of the top three teams: if they don't like any QB then they are candidates to be open for a trade. Unfortunately, the presumption is they will want a top QB and that is the leverage they'll likely keep secret.

It kind of gets back to who they like and how they see the board falling. And whether they are willing to be just another team at #11 jockeying for someone they may be ok with at a spot lower than #2 (plus picks).

Although in the event they are looking to trade (or even not), it would make sense that they have all 'best offers' already on the table because there is not a lot of time to negotiate when they are on the clock.
Post #: 240
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 11:59:38 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27586
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.


The only way it works if NE isn't sold on qb.

They have a lot of holes to fill.
Just hired a defensive coach.
Small chance they could decide more draft picks are better way to go than a high end qb.


I think more than a small chance. They need a QB but they need everything. True, having a high pick in a QB rich draft is a chance that doesn't come along every year. But you never know. Strange things happen on draft day. All the top QBs are good, but Williams is probably the only closest thing to a sure thing. There is always risk involved. They may well decide that a bounty of picks is the faster and more prudent way to rebuild.


And maybe so. My point is (assuming they would like one of the six QBs) it may take two trades to get to #2 as a way to help alleviate risk from their side. IOW, something like #11 and #23 to get to #5. Then #5 and the 2025 1st rounder (and maybe more?) to go from #5 to #2. And Herbert isn't part of this scenario.
Post #: 241
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 12:25:23 PM   
Chris Olson


Posts: 6762
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.


The only way it works if NE isn't sold on qb.

They have a lot of holes to fill.
Just hired a defensive coach.
Small chance they could decide more draft picks are better way to go than a high end qb.


I think more than a small chance. They need a QB but they need everything. True, having a high pick in a QB rich draft is a chance that doesn't come along every year. But you never know. Strange things happen on draft day. All the top QBs are good, but Williams is probably the only closest thing to a sure thing. There is always risk involved. They may well decide that a bounty of picks is the faster and more prudent way to rebuild.


And maybe so. My point is (assuming they would like one of the six QBs) it may take two trades to get to #2 as a way to help alleviate risk from their side. IOW, something like #11 and #23 to get to #5. Then #5 and the 2025 1st rounder (and maybe more?) to go from #5 to #2. And Herbert isn't part of this scenario.

This is exactly what I was thinking, we trade 23 and 11 for 5 before the draft…

and maybe even go after 2 or 3 for 5 and the 2025 1st rounder…would be a lot easier for either of those teams to move down 2 spots and still secure a top 4 qb

I wonder if The Cards would take the trade of 11+23 for 4? That would be ideal, as both Washington and NE could accept that trade down with nobody able to leapfrog them
Post #: 242
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 12:52:08 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27586
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.


The only way it works if NE isn't sold on qb.

They have a lot of holes to fill.
Just hired a defensive coach.
Small chance they could decide more draft picks are better way to go than a high end qb.


I think more than a small chance. They need a QB but they need everything. True, having a high pick in a QB rich draft is a chance that doesn't come along every year. But you never know. Strange things happen on draft day. All the top QBs are good, but Williams is probably the only closest thing to a sure thing. There is always risk involved. They may well decide that a bounty of picks is the faster and more prudent way to rebuild.


And maybe so. My point is (assuming they would like one of the six QBs) it may take two trades to get to #2 as a way to help alleviate risk from their side. IOW, something like #11 and #23 to get to #5. Then #5 and the 2025 1st rounder (and maybe more?) to go from #5 to #2. And Herbert isn't part of this scenario.

This is exactly what I was thinking, we trade 23 and 11 for 5 before the draft…

and maybe even go after 2 or 3 for 5 and the 2025 1st rounder…would be a lot easier for either of those teams to move down 2 spots and still secure a top 4 qb

I wonder if The Cards would take the trade of 11+23 for 4? That would be ideal, as both Washington and NE could accept that trade down with nobody able to leapfrog them


Good point adding in the trade to #5 would have to be done before the draft... otherwise it wouldn't work. That's another obstacle since some GMs like to wait for calls until the 11th hour. But they should know if they are a pivot point so to speak for teams looking to go higher then it's a lot cleaner having some arrangement beforehand.

And yeah, if Wash/NE think #2-3 is too high to take a QB BUT need to walk away with one of the six rather than be left holding an empty bag, then #5 or #4 as you say is about as ideal as you can get.

I used the #2 pick as a target only because I'd trade up for Daniels at #2 but not May at #3.
Post #: 243
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 1:38:56 PM   
Chris Olson


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Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: offline
I hear you, Bill, re: Daniels

That’s why I prefer to get to 2 if possible, and before the draft

I think that kid is special and has an extra dimension to his game while still having really sound technique (per Chris Simms)

But I’m not down on Maye as being as “inconsistent” as Simms says…that guy can ball! He may end up being the best of the bunch when said and done

I’d take him at three if he is the leftover…I just don’t believe in JJ or Nix, and would rather take Gunslinger Penix if we can’t get to top 3
Post #: 244
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 2:08:24 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 14990
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think the Vikings might be targeting Jayden Daniels, because they targeted Anthony Richardson last year, and Daniels is probably most similar to Richardson.


It sure would be nice to be a fly on the wall to know who they truly coveted.

If it’s Daniels I’m not sure it’s possible. If Washington goes Maye the Pats are taking Daniel’s. I think the Pats become trade partners only if Daniels is off the board. We have to get to 2 and I don’t see how Washington can give up choice in this select group.


Supposedly NE loves McCarthy. If that's the case, they're likely to need better than 11 to get him.



That's the thing. Assuming Chi takes Caleb, neither NE nor Wash will trade to #11 with the expectation of getting their guy. People are ignoring they would be starting out at #2-3 and could be left with nothing.

To get Daniels, as a minimum you need to have the #5 pick to entice NE or Wash. And that might not be enough if they have settled on a QB and do not want to risk anything happening to jeopardize that.


The only way it works if NE isn't sold on qb.

They have a lot of holes to fill.
Just hired a defensive coach.
Small chance they could decide more draft picks are better way to go than a high end qb.


I think more than a small chance. They need a QB but they need everything. True, having a high pick in a QB rich draft is a chance that doesn't come along every year. But you never know. Strange things happen on draft day. All the top QBs are good, but Williams is probably the only closest thing to a sure thing. There is always risk involved. They may well decide that a bounty of picks is the faster and more prudent way to rebuild.


And maybe so. My point is (assuming they would like one of the six QBs) it may take two trades to get to #2 as a way to help alleviate risk from their side. IOW, something like #11 and #23 to get to #5. Then #5 and the 2025 1st rounder (and maybe more?) to go from #5 to #2. And Herbert isn't part of this scenario.

This is exactly what I was thinking, we trade 23 and 11 for 5 before the draft…

and maybe even go after 2 or 3 for 5 and the 2025 1st rounder…would be a lot easier for either of those teams to move down 2 spots and still secure a top 4 qb

I wonder if The Cards would take the trade of 11+23 for 4? That would be ideal, as both Washington and NE could accept that trade down with nobody able to leapfrog them


Good point adding in the trade to #5 would have to be done before the draft... otherwise it wouldn't work. That's another obstacle since some GMs like to wait for calls until the 11th hour. But they should know if they are a pivot point so to speak for teams looking to go higher then it's a lot cleaner having some arrangement beforehand.

And yeah, if Wash/NE think #2-3 is too high to take a QB BUT need to walk away with one of the six rather than be left holding an empty bag, then #5 or #4 as you say is about as ideal as you can get.

I used the #2 pick as a target only because I'd trade up for Daniels at #2 but not May at #3.


I really like Maye, Bill. He makes really nice throws and he has the mobility to extend plays. But, I also liked Ponder, so what do I know???
Post #: 245
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 2:11:51 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

I have to give Kwesi credit, he is cooking this off season!

He said at his presser that they had a lot of contingencies in place. This gives them so much more flexibility.

I'm guessing that they already have a potential trade up partner that they've had discussions with and know the price of poker before they consummated the trade with Houston.

My dream of Jayden Daniels in purple has my hopes up higher today.

When is Daniels pro day? Being he declined to get measured at the combine.

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Post #: 246
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 2:15:43 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17845
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am guessing the Vikings are trading #11 and #23 for pick #5 with S.D., and the Vikings take JJ McCarthy.

Is that a fair trade, or is it a Kwesi trade of giving up a little too much ?

And do you guys and gals like McCarthy enough to make that trade ?


What if Denver offers the farm to the Cardinals and jump us for McCarthy, if that's who KOC/Kwesi have identified?


Unless we trade up to #2, I don't expect any trade to be announced until the pick we're trading up to is on the clock.

If I recall SF made several trades to move up to #3 before the draft.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 247
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 2:42:57 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76824
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
Maye looks like he could be the next Josh Allen.

Maye looks like he could be the next Blake Bortles.
Post #: 248
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 3:21:22 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 14990
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Maye looks like he could be the next Josh Allen.

Maye looks like he could be the next Blake Bortles.


Caveat emptor, I guess.
Post #: 249
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2024 3:24:55 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 44338
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Maye looks like he could be the next Josh Allen.

Maye looks like he could be the next Blake Bortles.

If Williams and Daniels are gone, I wouldn't hesitate to trade up for Maye. He's a big athletic QB with a strong accurate arm and a huge upside. These kids all have a chance to bust. I'm not concerned with who they look like if they do.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 250
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