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RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/24/2024 12:07:19 PM   
marty


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The problem with your plan David, is it relies too much on Darnold to continue sucking, which is in your favor.

The other problem is the Flore's defense isn't the Donatell defense, so it's unlikely to suck, and could be top 10. And then there's the problem of if Aaron Jones stays healthy, you have a really good run game.

And then there is also the problem that there might not be any first round material QBs in the 2025 draft. Deion's kid is good, but he may be mostly a runner, that never becomes a great passer at the NFL level.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 476
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/24/2024 12:45:12 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The problem with your plan David, is it relies too much on Darnold to continue sucking, which is in your favor.

The other problem is the Flore's defense isn't the Donatell defense, so it's unlikely to suck, and could be top 10. And then there's the problem of if Aaron Jones stays healthy, you have a really good run game.

And then there is also the problem that there might not be any first round material QBs in the 2025 draft. Deion's kid is good, but he may be mostly a runner, that never becomes a great passer at the NFL level.


You aren't familiar with him at all, are you?

He threw the ball 39 times per game (11 games, 430 attempts).

He "ran" the ball 111 times for -77 yards. He had 4 games with positive rushing yards.

Remember in college football sacks count as negative rushing yards. So with 52 sacks on the season, he actually only ran the ball 59 times (5x per game)
Post #: 477
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/24/2024 1:20:02 PM   
marty


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I was going by some highlights during the season, the fact that his dad was a very fast runner, and that he wasn't clutch in some games, guessing that he wasn't passing well in those games.

And then there is the fact that passing success in college doesn't always equate to NFL passing.

He may end up being a very good prospect, but if he's a great prospect, like this year and Caleb Williams, the Vikings probably won't have the ammo to move up to #1.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 478
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/24/2024 1:24:39 PM   
Todd M

 

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Dion will only let his son play for a select few franchises. We’re not one of em.

Next year is going to be all about some making a stand.
Post #: 479
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 7:38:13 AM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

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I’m gonna be passed out by 9 pm, tonight…

Then I won’t have to watch the team make “ I’m smarter than any GM in the league” shit picks til possibly late Friday or Saturday..

Yeee fn haw..

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Post #: 480
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 8:54:51 AM   
lyle chabot

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I’m gonna be passed out by 9 pm, tonight…

Then I won’t have to watch the team make “ I’m smarter than any GM in the league” shit picks til possibly late Friday or Saturday..

Yeee fn haw..

Sweet dreams Dan
Post #: 481
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 10:20:08 AM   
Karl Juhnke


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Hot take. There is a greater than zero chance our QB next year is Justin Herbert.
Post #: 482
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 10:28:03 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Hot take. There is a greater than zero chance our QB next year is Justin Herbert.


There is a less than zero chance.

If he's traded this year, he is a 129.5M Dead Cap hit for LA.

If he's traded next offseason, he's a 110M Dead Cap hit.

2026 is the first year he can be realistically moved (36.8M Dead Cap).
Post #: 483
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 10:28:07 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Hot take. There is a greater than zero chance our QB next year is Justin Herbert.

Agreed. I'll go with 1%,

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So let it be done."
Post #: 484
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 5:14:44 PM   
Don T in CO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The problem with your plan David, is it relies too much on Darnold to continue sucking, which is in your favor.

The other problem is the Flore's defense isn't the Donatell defense, so it's unlikely to suck, and could be top 10. And then there's the problem of if Aaron Jones stays healthy, you have a really good run game.

And then there is also the problem that there might not be any first round material QBs in the 2025 draft. Deion's kid is good, but he may be mostly a runner, that never becomes a great passer at the NFL level.


You aren't familiar with him at all, are you?

He threw the ball 39 times per game (11 games, 430 attempts).

He "ran" the ball 111 times for -77 yards. He had 4 games with positive rushing yards.

Remember in college football sacks count as negative rushing yards. So with 52 sacks on the season, he actually only ran the ball 59 times (5x per game)


As someone who watched all of CU's games last year, I can confirm that Shedeur Sanders is NOT a running QB. If anything, he holds on to the ball too long trying to make plays downfield. This, combined with his absolutely horrible OL in 2023, lead to a high volume of sacks. Ex-Viking and Buffaloes OC, Pat Shurmur, was calling more quick-throw pass plays as last season wore on and as Shedeur got more and more beat up.

IMO, Shedeur may turn out to be better than any of the QBs in the 2024 draft. He has a very strong arm - great on out patterns and downfield throws. He has a very high FB IQ. His family nickname is "grown" - because he has always been very mature for his age. He had a very good season in 2023 until he lost Travis Hunter (perhaps the next closest thing to Deion Sanders since Deion Sanders) for several weeks and his OL got exposed by some ranked teams.

IMO, the Vikings have no shot at getting him in the 2025 draft for several reason (mostly already stated in this thread)-
1. The Vikings will draft their QBOTF tonight
2. The Vikings will not pick high enough in the 2025 draft to have a shot
3. Deion and his connections will manipulate things to get Shedeur onto a big market team
Post #: 485
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 6:54:16 PM   
David Levine


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AJ Brown just set the bar.

3 years/96M. 84M Guaranteed.
Post #: 486
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 7:34:45 PM   
Chris Olson


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that is steep...trade JJ to Arizona now!
Post #: 487
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 9:27:14 PM   
marty


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No way, we will have JJ throwing TDs to JJ.

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Post #: 488
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 11:24:14 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

No way, we will have JJ throwing TDs to JJ.

Yep. Don't trade away a possible HOFer in his prime. Moss was maybe a little bit past his prime but that was a dumb trade. Learn from it.
Post #: 489
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 11:47:57 PM   
David Levine


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2024 NFL draft: Mel Kiper's Round 1 winners, losers, values

Biggest winners from Round 1

Minnesota Vikings
The picks: QB J.J. McCarthy (No. 10) and OLB Dallas Turner (No. 17)


All along, McCarthy was linked to the Vikings. And all along, we thought they might have to give up their other first-round pick -- No. 23 -- to get him. Instead, though, they patiently waited. They traded up one spot with the Jets, got their guy and kept the No. 23 pick. That's a huge win.

McCarthy, who finished No. 15 in my rankings, is going to a great spot. Coach Kevin O'Connell and the Vikings will put him in position to succeed. Plus, he's going to be throwing passes to Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison and T.J. Hockenson. This is a great fit for a young signal-caller.

Minnesota was able to use that pick at 23 to move up six spots to land Turner, my top-ranked edge rusher and the No. 9 player on my Big Board. While the franchise had to give up quite a bit -- it also surrendered No. 167 and 2025 third- and fourth-rounders -- Turner is a great player who fills a position of need. Like the Bears, the Vikings landed two guys in my top 15. This is a really solid haul.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/40023090/2024-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-round-1-winners-losers-value-picks-updates-best-available-players
Post #: 490
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 11:50:16 PM   
David Levine


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More from Mel:

Teams that made head-scratching moves in Round 1

Atlanta Falcons
The pick: QB Michael Penix Jr. (No. 8)


This is a shocking pick. The Falcons just gave free agent Kirk Cousins $100 million guaranteed in March. They're locked into the veteran for at least two seasons. And they go and reach for a quarterback who turns 24 years old next month? I don't get it. The reality is Penix is No. 24 overall on my Big Board, and I had him rated a tier behind J.J. McCarthy, who was still on the board.

The other part of this is Atlanta has a huge need on defense, and it passed up the opportunity to take the first defender in the class. The Falcons ranked last in the league in pass rush win rate (30.9%) and 29th in takeaways (16). They went 7-10 last season in large part because of their porous defense. Edge rusher Dallas Turner or defensive tackle Byron Murphy II would have been huge upgrades on their depth chart.

The Falcons addressing their defense would have helped them compete for the NFC South title, but instead they took a guy who will sit behind Cousins and wait his turn. I understand that if they wanted Penix, they probably had to take him before the Raiders at No. 13, but this is a tough one to stomach this early.

Denver Broncos
The pick: QB Bo Nix (No. 12)


This is a fit I thought might work after free agency last month. Here's what I wrote then: "Nix isn't going to be for every team, but [coach Sean] Payton might see a little Drew Brees in him. ... Taking Nix in Round 1 would be a way for the Broncos to try to snag a franchise quarterback, and if they moved down a few spots, they could regain valuable capital. But again, they have to really believe in his potential to do it."

The problem now? This is too high for Nix, who I gave a Round 2 grade. I get that Denver saw five other quarterbacks go before its pick and maybe the front office thought they faced losing Nix if they traded down. But this is a reach. The fear with Nix is that he already has reached his ceiling; he started 61 college games at Auburn and Oregon. He was extremely productive the past two seasons for the Ducks -- he threw 45 touchdown passes and just three picks in 2023 -- but he was asked to get the ball out quickly and throw short. That won't work at the next level. He's going to have to go through full-field reads.

Payton is going to have to coach him up and turn him into an above-average starter, and I'm just not convinced Nix will get there. Then again, we can't count out Payton, who now has his guy after Russell Wilson was released.
Post #: 491
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/25/2024 11:56:55 PM   
David Levine


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2024 NFL Draft grades: Why the Vikings got a steal in Dallas Turner at No. 17 overall

After trading up for their new quarterback in J.J. McCarthy at No. 10 overall, the Minnesota Vikings again traded up in the first round to select former Alabama pass rusher Dallas Turner at No. 17 overall.

Turner is one of the most explosive pass rushers in the 2024 NFL Draft, and arguably the best defensive player in the class. Upon joining the Crimson Tide as a consensus 5-star prospect out of St. Thomas Aquinas in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Turner was revered as the heir apparent to Will Anderson Jr., who was taken No. 3 overall in the 2023 NFL Draft.

The conference's coaches named Turner a member of the All-SEC Freshman Team. In 15 games, he recorded 10 tackles for a loss as well as 8.5 sacks and a fumble recovery. As a team captain in 2023, Turner recorded 10 sacks and 14.5 tackles for a loss en route to being named the SEC's Defensive Player of the Year.

Here's what the Vikings are getting in Turner, including his scouting report, pro comparison, combine results, career accolades and overall NFL outlook.

NFL Draft grade: A

"Love this move to go get Turner. He will be the best edge player in this class. The Vikings have had a lot of success with edge players and he fits with what Brian Flores wants to do." -- Pete Prisco

Age: 21 years old
Height: 6-foot-3
Weight: 247 pounds
CBS Sports prospect ranking
Position: No. 1 EDGE | Overall: No. 10 | Rating: 92.57 (All-Pro)

NFL comparison: Jevon Kearse

NFL combine results
40-yard dash: 4.46 seconds
Broad jump: 10-foot-7
Vertical jump: 40.5 inches
Scouting report
Dallas Turner is a quick edge rusher with good first-step quickness. He could stand to add more mass to take his game to another level but is not deficient in that regard. Turner has great waist bend at the high side of his rush to flatten and become a heat-seeking missile towards quarterbacks. He should quickly become a factor for a team at the next level.

Accolades

2023: Consensus All-American and SEC Co-Defensive POY
Career: 22.5 sacks and 32.5 TFL (both 2nd in SEC in span)

Strengths

• Great waist bend at the high side of his rush
• Good quickness to shoot gaps and get on the hips of blockers
• Builds speed quickly
• Plays to the whistle
• Works back when getting too deep in his rush

Weaknesses

• Could stand to add more weight to hold up in run support
• Needs a runway to create power as a rusher
• Inconsistent job of getting off blocks

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-draft-grades-why-the-vikings-got-a-steal-in-dallas-turner-at-no-17-overall/
Post #: 492
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 12:00:52 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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Turner’s Scouting Report

Strengths

• Sports a lean, flexible frame with elite proportional length and reach.
• Has an uncommon combination of hyper-elite explosiveness and bend capacity.
• With his brisk long-strider explosiveness, can teleport to the apex off the snap.
• Can leverage elite burst and length into devastating bouts of raw power capacity.
• Grew more consistent at leveraging base and attacking with power exertions in 2023.
• Improved play strength in 2023, which showed with his ability to fight through blocks.
• Has the searing lateral agility to work across face in the blink of an eye and invade gaps.
• Loose flexibility allows him to naturally acquire leverage and pad level on the attack.
• Has shown he can dip under the corner while sustaining long-strider acceleration.
• Can shrink his surface area and pinch incredibly tight angles as a finesse rusher.
• Improved at leveraging his base on speed rushes and using initial angles to bait tackles.
• Flashes high-end rush nuance with euro-steps, cross-chops, swipes, and manipulation.
• Alert, active run defender who knows how to establish half-man relationships.
• Has overwhelming pursuit range with his elite long-strider athleticism, reach, and motor.
• With speed, length, and fluidity, has the versatility to disguise rushes and play coverage.

Weaknesses
• Despite exceptional length and wingspan, lacks high-end mass and frame density.
• Still improving at stacking secondary moves off of initial power exertions.
• Can improve precision with his off hand while attacking the torso with long-arms.
• Reaction speed on counters against sliding protection looks can be more consistent.
• Can be more consistent with pass-rush plan and execution on a down-to-down basis.
• Sometimes diverts upright when stunting laterally, which can sap at base load.
• Still has room to improve lower-body strength to prevent run game displacement.
• Leaner frame can impact sturdiness and balance against power in the run game.
• Sometimes flushes out of outside gaps too early, opening outside running lanes.
• Is most natural out of two-point stances, which may limit even-front appeal.

Current Draft Projection and Summary

Turner grades out as a borderline top-10 and blue-chip prospect in the 2024 NFL Draft, and he’s the top EDGE prospect on my board. A young, productive player with an all-encompassing physical profile and a steep upward track, there isn’t much preventing Turner from being an early first-round pick.

Turner came into the 2023 spring period in the 240-pound range, but he played the 2023 campaign at a listed 252 pounds, and his play strength looked visibly improved. Not only that, but Turner retained his freakish explosiveness, speed, and bend. And in little moments, we got to see what his ceiling could look like.

Even with hand-usage improvements, Turner can still strive for more consistency, both with his pass-rushing plan and overall hand precision. But Turner has one of the most complete physical pallets of any EDGE over the past five years, and it yields astronomical upside.

With his blistering speed and gravity-defying bend, Turner can eviscerate tackles at the apex, and his finesse element also enables him to rush from alignment-versatile looks, stunt freely, and stress blocking angles across the front. But with his elite length, Turner also boasts a menacing power component.

With his hyperactive lateral twitch and fluidity, Turner can widen tackles before exploding into the torso with ruthless long-arms and bull-rushes. To that end, he’s shown he can scare tackles into flashing their hands with feigned power rushes and then capitalize with swipes and rips. And in pursuit, he’s an albatross with his closing speed and motor.

Turner may need a slight acclimation period as he continues to refine his execution and build up his lower body. But in the hands of a creative defensive coordinator, he can be an indiscriminate force of destruction amongst the front seven and a true schematic catalyst.

Turner has the elite tools of a speed, finesse, and power rusher all in one. And if he can fully grow into that profile and weaponize it to the max, he has Pro Bowl and All-Pro potential as a stand-up EDGE.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/dallas-turner-draft-scouting-2024/
Post #: 493
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 12:23:06 AM   
lyle chabot

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Turner’s Scouting Report

Strengths

• Sports a lean, flexible frame with elite proportional length and reach.
• Has an uncommon combination of hyper-elite explosiveness and bend capacity.
• With his brisk long-strider explosiveness, can teleport to the apex off the snap.
• Can leverage elite burst and length into devastating bouts of raw power capacity.
• Grew more consistent at leveraging base and attacking with power exertions in 2023.
• Improved play strength in 2023, which showed with his ability to fight through blocks.
• Has the searing lateral agility to work across face in the blink of an eye and invade gaps.
• Loose flexibility allows him to naturally acquire leverage and pad level on the attack.
• Has shown he can dip under the corner while sustaining long-strider acceleration.
• Can shrink his surface area and pinch incredibly tight angles as a finesse rusher.
• Improved at leveraging his base on speed rushes and using initial angles to bait tackles.
• Flashes high-end rush nuance with euro-steps, cross-chops, swipes, and manipulation.
• Alert, active run defender who knows how to establish half-man relationships.
• Has overwhelming pursuit range with his elite long-strider athleticism, reach, and motor.
• With speed, length, and fluidity, has the versatility to disguise rushes and play coverage.

Weaknesses
• Despite exceptional length and wingspan, lacks high-end mass and frame density.
• Still improving at stacking secondary moves off of initial power exertions.
• Can improve precision with his off hand while attacking the torso with long-arms.
• Reaction speed on counters against sliding protection looks can be more consistent.
• Can be more consistent with pass-rush plan and execution on a down-to-down basis.
• Sometimes diverts upright when stunting laterally, which can sap at base load.
• Still has room to improve lower-body strength to prevent run game displacement.
• Leaner frame can impact sturdiness and balance against power in the run game.
• Sometimes flushes out of outside gaps too early, opening outside running lanes.
• Is most natural out of two-point stances, which may limit even-front appeal.

Current Draft Projection and Summary

Turner grades out as a borderline top-10 and blue-chip prospect in the 2024 NFL Draft, and he’s the top EDGE prospect on my board. A young, productive player with an all-encompassing physical profile and a steep upward track, there isn’t much preventing Turner from being an early first-round pick.

Turner came into the 2023 spring period in the 240-pound range, but he played the 2023 campaign at a listed 252 pounds, and his play strength looked visibly improved. Not only that, but Turner retained his freakish explosiveness, speed, and bend. And in little moments, we got to see what his ceiling could look like.

Even with hand-usage improvements, Turner can still strive for more consistency, both with his pass-rushing plan and overall hand precision. But Turner has one of the most complete physical pallets of any EDGE over the past five years, and it yields astronomical upside.

With his blistering speed and gravity-defying bend, Turner can eviscerate tackles at the apex, and his finesse element also enables him to rush from alignment-versatile looks, stunt freely, and stress blocking angles across the front. But with his elite length, Turner also boasts a menacing power component.

With his hyperactive lateral twitch and fluidity, Turner can widen tackles before exploding into the torso with ruthless long-arms and bull-rushes. To that end, he’s shown he can scare tackles into flashing their hands with feigned power rushes and then capitalize with swipes and rips. And in pursuit, he’s an albatross with his closing speed and motor.

Turner may need a slight acclimation period as he continues to refine his execution and build up his lower body. But in the hands of a creative defensive coordinator, he can be an indiscriminate force of destruction amongst the front seven and a true schematic catalyst.

Turner has the elite tools of a speed, finesse, and power rusher all in one. And if he can fully grow into that profile and weaponize it to the max, he has Pro Bowl and All-Pro potential as a stand-up EDGE.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/dallas-turner-draft-scouting-2024/

David great info! Thank you!
Post #: 494
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 6:56:37 AM   
Todd M

 

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How high might Turner have gone in a less top heavy offense start to the draft?

Is he a top 3 worthy prospect?
Post #: 495
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 7:28:45 AM   
Chris Olson


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From: Saratoga Springs, NY
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If Atlanta were sane, he should have gone at 8
Post #: 496
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 7:37:48 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

No way, we will have JJ throwing TDs to JJ.

Yep. Don't trade away a possible HOFer in his prime. Moss was maybe a little bit past his prime but that was a dumb trade. Learn from it.



It was a dumb trade made as a **** you by the departing owner to the people of Minnesota compounded by the fact that we wasted a first round draft pick on a really fast WR that couldn't catch a football to save his life trying to replace him.


Moss still had a few good years in him after he left the Raiders. He just pouted in Oakland

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Post #: 497
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 7:48:53 AM   
Chris Olson


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From: Saratoga Springs, NY
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I wish i had a Falcons fan friend so I could laugh at him

Dumbest pick maybe in NFL history

(Or is it the smartest pick, and we should all continue to laugh at them for signing Kirko for $100 mil guaranteed?)
Post #: 498
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 7:54:30 AM   
Phil Riewer


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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I wish i had a Falcons fan friend so I could laugh at him

Dumbest pick maybe in NFL history

(Or is it the smartest pick, and we should all continue to laugh at them for signing Kirko for $100 mil guaranteed?)


They do need another QB....Rattler would have been a better choice in the 2nd.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 499
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/26/2024 8:45:19 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I wish i had a Falcons fan friend so I could laugh at him

Dumbest pick maybe in NFL history

(Or is it the smartest pick, and we should all continue to laugh at them for signing Kirko for $100 mil guaranteed?)


They do need another QB....Rattler would have been a better choice in the 2nd.

Monumentally stupid pick. They signed Cousins to $100M guaranteed with the intent of winning now. Instead of taking an impact player at #8 who moves them closer to that goal they draft somebody they hope will take over after 2 years. Even if they needed a QB, Penix was a massive reach pick.

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Post #: 500
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