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RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/10/2024 7:44:37 AM   
Todd M

 

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If that’s not something that changes it will be very disappointing. Tired of seeing them come out of the gates flat. Starting the season behind. When it seems clear they need to knock the rust off in pre season.
Post #: 1026
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/10/2024 9:43:43 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From the Athletic:
Vikings minicamp takeaways: J.J. McCarthy, Sam Darnold and some under-the-radar standouts
EAGAN, MINNESOTA - JUNE 04: J.J. McCarthy #9 of the Minnesota Vikings throws the ball during Minnesota Vikings mandatory minicamp at Twin Cities Orthopedics Performance Center on June 04, 2024 in Eagan, Minnesota.(Photo by Adam Bettcher/Getty Images)
By Alec Lewis
Jun 7, 2024

EAGAN, Minn. — Justin Jefferson’s extension eliminated all of the possible hoopla. Once the superstar wide receiver signed his $140 million deal, the Minnesota Vikings’ mandatory minicamp became about football and nothing else.
Minnesota practiced for nearly two hours Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Each position group was stationed on a particular side of the field for individual drills. The practices finished with a full-team competition.
Here are some questions, answers and observations from the action:

Why Justin Jefferson's record-breaking Vikings extension was always in the cards

How did J.J. McCarthy look?
Overarching quarterback observations are largely unimportant at this stage, and none are a referendum on McCarthy’s potential.
The Vikings structured their practices with little 11-on-11 work. The quarterbacks mostly threw on their own, with some seven-on-seven competition mixed in. Even when they did include the full roster, few players ran full speed.
McCarthy missed some passes over the first two days. He grounded one to fullback C.J. Ham in the flat. He hummed a throw over the middle Wednesday that safety Theo Jackson lunged and tipped.
Thursday, though, McCarthy looked much better. He lasered one over the middle to tight end Robert Tonyan. He feathered a completion to receiver Trent Sherfield on the far right sideline. Tracking passes feels like a fruitless exercise right now — so many variables factor into these throws, and all a basic stat line does is falsely sway the narrative — but Thursday was easily the rookie’s most efficient day.
This isn’t surprising. McCarthy is practicing new concepts and throwing to new receivers. He is using different footwork. Defenders are moving across his line of vision faster than he has ever experienced. Inconsistency should be the expectation. And the frustrated McCarthy clapped at himself after some throws. After good ones, he high-fived fellow quarterbacks Sam Darnold, Nick Mullens and Jaren Hall and patted the helmets of receivers.
Tonyan complimented McCarthy on Thursday for his affinity for “ripping it.” Other than that, the Vikings staffers and players remained mostly quiet about McCarthy’s performance. That isn’t surprising, either.
They want to take this slow. To help him develop confidence. To allow him to try throws, make mistakes and learn. Head coach Kevin O’Connell and his staff believe that’s the best path to long-term success, and everyone seems on board.
Vikings hoping they have team in place to successfully draft, develop rookie quarterback

What should we take away from Darnold’s showing?
Darnold looked calm, confident and prepared for what is likely to be another starting opportunity.
Thursday, he surveyed receivers in a seven-on-seven rep, then placed the ball perfectly in stride toward second-year receiver Jordan Addison. Once Addison caught the ball and turned upfield, multiple teammates who had been watching from behind Darnold yelled, “Thatta boy, Sam!”
Darnold’s consistency stood out for three days. He connected with Jefferson on a couple of over routes Wednesday, dropping the ball into hard-to-see windows. He anticipated cuts and displayed touch.
“I know firsthand how much arm talent he has,” said defensive tackle Harrison Phillips (Stanford), who played against Darnold (USC) in college. “This is the best team he’s been on. This is the best system for him. He’s hopefully going to find the ceiling of his play this season for us.”
Darnold took every first-team rep. When the Vikings split the fields between the starters and the developmental groups, he stayed with the starting group with Mullens while McCarthy and second-year man Hall trotted over to the other field.
Again, this is not a definitive sign of where McCarthy stands.

Which other new additions stood out?
How about 28-year-old cornerback Shaquill Griffin?

Jefferson jawed with Griffin after an incompletion Thursday in a seven-on-seven rep. Griffin seemed amused by the conversation. He’ll likely pay for the back and forth in training camp, but his confidence is unmistakable.

“It almost gives me that same feeling as Patrick Peterson when he came into the building,” safety Josh Metellus said Wednesday. “He’s a guy who has seen a lot of football, and he’s giving us tidbits, especially the young guys in the corner room.”
The Vikings tried to rely on Akayleb Evans and Mekhi Blackmon in 2023. Both struggled at times, forcing Byron Murphy Jr. outside. Griffin’s presence allows defensive coordinator Brian Flores to move Murphy back inside in nickel packages.
“You’ve got a guy in Byron who has been primarily inside his whole career,” Metellus said. “Now you’ve got a guy in Shaq who has been primarily outside. So, you get the best of both worlds in that room.”
Another significant aspect is Griffin’s comfort in man coverage, which the Vikings used more of this week than last year. Expect Flores to spin the coverage dial more in 2024 to stay unpredictable.

Who else should fans be keeping their eyes on?
Two names.
One defender and one skill player.
Theo Jackson and Ty Chandler.
Countless staffers and players brought up Jackson’s name this week. He filled in for some of safety Cam Bynum’s first-team snaps when he left the field for a brief rest. Metellus even said, “I’ve been telling (Jackson) for a few weeks, ‘You’ve been balling.’”
Chandler’s name should not be a surprise here. Right tackle Brian O’Neill said last year he’d long felt Chandler was one of the team’s most explosive players. Phillips reiterated that message Thursday.
“I see us as having a one-two punch at running back (alongside Aaron Jones),” Phillips said, “almost like they have in Detroit. I don’t know if that’s what’s happening on the offensive side, but I know that we have two true No. 1 running backs. I’d buy stock in Ty Chandler if I could.”

What about a player who has not been in the building until this year?
Tonyan.
The Vikings worked out the former Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers and Chicago Bears tight end a few weeks ago and were blown away. They signed the tight end who caught 52 passes in 2020 and 53 in 2023. He already looked like a favorite target of the quarterbacks’ this week.
Tonyan played only 28 percent of the Bears’ offensive snaps last year. He described the dip in opportunity as a “tough situation, going from playing 60 snaps a game to 10.” He wants to prove the Bears’ decision not to use him was a miscalculation.

Is there an undrafted player to pay attention to?
Dwight McGlothern, a cornerback who played in college at LSU and Arkansas.
McGlothern played at LSU for current Vikings defensive backs coach Daronte Jones, who at the time was LSU’s defensive coordinator. McGlothern met with Jones before his pro day at Arkansas, and their relationship played a role in McGlothern’s signing with the Vikings.
Thursday, McGlothern was one of the final players on the field, listening intently to Murphy, who passed along tidbits about techniques to use when pressing receivers.
“In college, there are formations that other teams would come out in, and I would already know the play (they were going to run),” McGlothern said. “Here, so far, you just have to rely on your technique, alignment and leverage.”
McGlothern spent most of this week with the developmental group, but Thursday, the Vikings tossed him in with some of the starters. Neither size nor length is an issue. He stands 6 feet 2 and is as lanky as Evans, who is big for the position.

Who didn’t show up and why?
Jalen Nailor, who was one of the more impressive Vikings performers throughout the first few organized team activities, was not present this week. The Vikings said he missed workouts due to an illness. Absences have been a theme for the 2022 sixth-round pick, who lost time last year because of a lower-leg injury and concussion. His uncertainty also raises a question: Do the Vikings need another receiver beyond Brandon Powell and Trent Sherfield? (If you’re asking me, the answer is yes.)

Fourth-round cornerback Khyree Jackson did not practice Thursday due to an illness, and the team said tight end Nick Muse was not there because of an undisclosed injury. During all three practices, tight end T.J. Hockenson and edge rusher Andrew Van Ginkel jogged on a side field. Both are progressing well, according to O’Connell.

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Post #: 1027
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/11/2024 1:04:26 PM   
David Levine


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Vikings UDFA rookie Dwight McGlothern raising eyebrows at minicamp?
McGlothern had the best coverage grade in the country in 2023.


Ivan Pace Jr.'s outstanding rookie season has brought increased attention to the Vikings' rookie undrafted free agent class this year. While much of that attention has been on UCLA edge rusher Gabriel Murphy, cornerback Dwight McGlothern is becoming the focus of the latest hype.

McGlothern, at 6-foot-2, is a tall, lanky corner who ran a 4.47-second 40-yard dash at the combine.

"Ball-hawking cornerback with the eyes, instincts and ball skills to flip the field against careless quarterbacks. McGlothern can press a little bit and handle some man coverage," NFL Network's Lance Zierlein wrote in his draft profile of McGlothern. "He possesses average speed and athleticism, but the skills are there to label him a Day 3 prospect with upside."

McGlothern joined the Vikings, looking to make his way onto a roster with a lot of questions at cornerback. Those numerous questions have led the undrafted free agent to earning first-team snaps at Vikings minicamp, reported The Athletic's Alec Lewis.

In four years split between Arkansas and LSU, McGlothern recorded eight interceptions and 24 pass breakups. His 91.8 coverage grade was best in the country among all cornerbacks in 2023, according to Pro Football Focus.

After veteran Byron Murphy Jr., the Vikings don't have a bona fide starter at cornerback. Free agent signing Shaq Griffin has bounced around teams the past several years, while recent the recent draft picks of Andrew Booth Jr., Akayleb Evans and Mekhi Blackmon have all had their growing pains.

Lewis noted McGlothern was one of the final players on the practice field after Thursday's minicamp practice, practicing with Murphy and learning from the veteran corner.

Current Vikings defensive backs coach Daronte Jones was the defensive coordinator at LSU during McGlothern's sophomore season in 2021.

"The biggest thing (is) I've already been in their position," Murphy said when asked about working one-on-one with McGlothern after practice. "I had other guys help me out, so I just want to keep being that person, be a good teammate. Also, when they ask questions, I want to give them the knowledge to help them get better as well. ... When I have time like that to show the guys my knowledge and what I know to help them out, I'm going to keep doing that every single day."

Vikings fans saw the impact Pace was able to make as an undrafted free agent. With so many open spots at cornerback, there could be the opportunity for another undrafted college prospect to make a name for himself on the Vikings roster.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/vikings-udfa-rookie-dwight-mcglothern-raising-eyebrows-at-minicamp-01hzszh46p6f
Post #: 1028
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/11/2024 1:05:22 PM   
David Levine


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More on McGlothern from "Krauser" at DN:

Krauser

McGlothern has a chance to be the "next Ivan Pace". He was very productive in college, but fell out of the draft because of sub-threshold athletic testing (32" vert, which is in the 18th percentile). His skillset should project well to the more man-heavy scheme Flores is installing this year. He has a connection with Vikings DB coach Daronte Jones, who was his DC at LSU in 2021.

His athletic testing might not be the deal-breaker it seems. He's tall (6'1 5/8") and has long-ish arms (30.5"+) so he won't be easily outjumped even with the poor vert. He has good-enough speed (4.47) and seems to be fairly agile / quick (though he didn't do the agility drills).

McGlothern's tape is very good. He has the speed and change-of-direction to hold up in man coverage even against good receivers. He's got great ball skills (15 PBUs and 7 INTs by PFF's charting over the last 2 years, while only allowing 44 catches on 91 targets). He's pretty skinny and doesn't have much of a physical presence as a tackler or run defender but he's not a liability there either.

He faced the LSU receivers last year and only gave up 3 catches to Nabers and Brian Thomas, all on stop/comeback routes where he was close enough to contest 2 of them and gave up zero YAC. Here's that game film: https://youtu.be/mezg2V6RfkQ?si=zIbgrAljYz0gRweA

Some film evaluators had him as a potential mid-round pick before his bad showing at the combine. This analysis is fairly one-sided but it's the best collection of his Arkansas highlights: https://youtu.be/cv4gfQp392s?si=Az0-1w8U7fkKkDfR
Post #: 1029
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/11/2024 4:03:36 PM   
Todd M

 

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I thought Murphy was the next Pace.

I’ll take 3 UDFA hits over the last 2 years. Makes up for Cine and Booth.


Someone’s doing a great job scouting the bottom end.
Post #: 1030
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/11/2024 4:53:55 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I thought Murphy was the next Pace.

I’ll take 3 UDFA hits over the last 2 years. Makes up for Cine and Booth.


Someone’s doing a great job scouting the bottom end.



40 times for edge rushers 2024 draft:

dallas turner 4.46...1st
gabriel murphy 4.68...6th


reference
andre carter II 4.93
danielle hunter 4.57

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 1031
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/11/2024 5:57:00 PM  1 votes
beo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I thought Murphy was the next Pace.

I’ll take 3 UDFA hits over the last 2 years. Makes up for Cine and Booth.


Someone’s doing a great job scouting the bottom end.


Maybe they ought to be promoting that guy to scouting the top end!

Post #: 1032
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/12/2024 1:01:56 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Crown McGlothern's ass. Can't be that difficult to climb the CB trash heap, although Blackmon is TBD.
Post #: 1033
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/12/2024 1:52:00 PM   
beo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Crown McGlothern's ass. Can't be that difficult to climb the CB trash heap, although Blackmon is TBD.


If they can find some guys to play outside I think Murphy is much more effective in the nickel.

Blackmon needs to step up and take 1 spot.

Then Griffin/Evans/McGlothern/4th rounder fight it out for the other spot.
Not against potentially adding someone either... cb is a spot that can contribute quickly.
Post #: 1034
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/12/2024 3:40:22 PM  1 votes
Mark C. Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

That's the thing with this experiment. He has the speed to beat traditional TE coverage, the hands to be a weapon and he doesn't need to be a good blocker. He won't be asked to be in the run game much. Just learn the TE route tree and he has a good chance.


No downside to see if it works. Who knows, right?
Post #: 1035
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/12/2024 3:45:49 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Yea, I don’t put any stock in anything until the games count..

Preseason, I want to see starting lineups play at least the first two series to open each game, AND, bring the starters out to open Every second Half..

It’s gotta mimic season games, adjustments and get into rhythm..


I agree. I don't like the starters getting zero playing time. That just seems like a way to guarantee that the first regular season game will be full of unforced errors by starters who haven't taken a snap together. Especially, McCarthy...he definitely will need preseason reps so I fully expect him to see preseason action.
Post #: 1036
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 4:15:32 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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.
i don't see ivan pace as a better than average linebacker...he's a great pickup as a udfa...great instincts and attitude, but he's small and slow...i don't have confidence that he gets a 2nd contract with the vikings - maybe as a backup/special team player....


McGlothern..."His 91.8 coverage grade was best in the country among all cornerbacks in 2023, according to Pro Football Focus."...how does this guy fall beyond the 7th round?...he seems to have all of the attributes, especially the 'ability'....


i have not heard anything about khyree jackson other than he's older and dropped out of college football for a few years....

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 6/13/2024 4:21:44 AM >


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Post #: 1037
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 7:23:23 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
i don't see ivan pace as a better than average linebacker...he's a great pickup as a udfa...great instincts and attitude, but he's small and slow...i don't have confidence that he gets a 2nd contract with the vikings - maybe as a backup/special team player....


McGlothern..."His 91.8 coverage grade was best in the country among all cornerbacks in 2023, according to Pro Football Focus."...how does this guy fall beyond the 7th round?...he seems to have all of the attributes, especially the 'ability'....


i have not heard anything about khyree jackson other than he's older and dropped out of college football for a few years....

Pace is undersized at LB, but he is definitely not slow. He compensates for his size with speed and agility.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1038
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 8:06:58 AM   
Todd M

 

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We’re setting ourselves up nicely. Once Cine and Booth are gone there’s going to be virtually no roster spots wasted on bitter disappointments. With just a couple of hits from this years draft we’ll be able to lock down the trenches next year and our window will be wide open.
Post #: 1039
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 9:52:26 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
i don't see ivan pace as a better than average linebacker...he's a great pickup as a udfa...great instincts and attitude, but he's small and slow...i don't have confidence that he gets a 2nd contract with the vikings - maybe as a backup/special team player....


McGlothern..."His 91.8 coverage grade was best in the country among all cornerbacks in 2023, according to Pro Football Focus."...how does this guy fall beyond the 7th round?...he seems to have all of the attributes, especially the 'ability'....


i have not heard anything about khyree jackson other than he's older and dropped out of college football for a few years....

Pace is undersized at LB, but he is definitely not slow. He compensates for his size with speed and agility.



you are correct, pace is not so slow...4.62/40, better than most in his class....

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Post #: 1040
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 10:29:33 AM   
Todd M

 

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So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.
Post #: 1041
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 11:36:40 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.

Yep. Agree 100%

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 1042
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 11:54:47 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.



the vikings/kwesi should have been bitching and moaning to the media about it...threatening to sue the falcons....

there's a top 12 quarterback involved...we lost him, because they illegally tampered....

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Post #: 1043
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 12:15:29 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.



the vikings/kwesi should have been bitching and moaning to the media about it...threatening to sue the falcons....

there's a top 12 quarterback involved...we lost him, because they illegally tampered....


We lost him before they tampered.

I think we should get the pick they lost, but the "tampering" was when he had an agreement in place to sign with them and talked to people he wasn't allowed to talk to for another day or two.

He'd already agreed in principle to sign with them BEFORE the "tampering" took place.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1044
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 12:18:03 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.



the vikings/kwesi should have been bitching and moaning to the media about it...threatening to sue the falcons....

there's a top 12 quarterback involved...we lost him, because they illegally tampered....

The Vikings lost him because they didn't want to meet his price to stay and Cousins wasn't going to stay at a discount. The tampering is a technicality that didn't affect what was inevitable.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 1045
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 12:39:16 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.



the vikings/kwesi should have been bitching and moaning to the media about it...threatening to sue the falcons....

there's a top 12 quarterback involved...we lost him, because they illegally tampered....

The Vikings lost him because they didn't want to meet his price to stay and Cousins wasn't going to stay at a discount. The tampering is a technicality that didn't affect what was inevitable.


yes, we know that...but it's hard to prove, and i think that we were due a penalty pick anyway, and i would have raised hell to get one....

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Post #: 1046
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 12:41:04 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.



the vikings/kwesi should have been bitching and moaning to the media about it...threatening to sue the falcons....

there's a top 12 quarterback involved...we lost him, because they illegally tampered....


We lost him before they tampered.

I think we should get the pick they lost, but the "tampering" was when he had an agreement in place to sign with them and talked to people he wasn't allowed to talk to for another day or two.

He'd already agreed in principle to sign with them BEFORE the "tampering" took place.



how do you know that?...cousins was packing his things while we were still considering....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 1047
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 1:31:54 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

So Atlanta forfeits a 5th round pick and has to pay $250000. We get Jack shit.

Kind of BS that they aren’t shipping us the pick.



the vikings/kwesi should have been bitching and moaning to the media about it...threatening to sue the falcons....

there's a top 12 quarterback involved...we lost him, because they illegally tampered....


We lost him before they tampered.

I think we should get the pick they lost, but the "tampering" was when he had an agreement in place to sign with them and talked to people he wasn't allowed to talk to for another day or two.

He'd already agreed in principle to sign with them BEFORE the "tampering" took place.



how do you know that?...cousins was packing his things while we were still considering....

The whole tampering charge was based on that. He talked to the trainers before he was allowed to.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1048
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 6:35:39 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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Who cares? He’s, thankfully, their problem now. Yeah, a pick would have been nice but I’m just glad we don’t have to worry about his contract to production when it matters anymore
Post #: 1049
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/13/2024 6:44:36 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Who cares? He’s, thankfully, their problem now. Yeah, a pick would have been nice but I’m just glad we don’t have to worry about his contract to production when it matters anymore


Agreed.

Honestly it was a victimless "crime". We were never going to sign him for that amount of money (we couldn't even if we wanted to), and I doubt the NFL wants to fully open that can of worms where draft picks can move from team to team over something that happens all the time (but most players are smart enough not to blab about it at a presser...).
Post #: 1050
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