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RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond)

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RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/20/2010 5:46:50 PM   
John Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Jones didn't win 3 SBs by meddling. Jimmy Johnson built tha entire team. It was when Jones started meddling the team started losing.


You're saying Jones wasn't involved in the decision making process?  He has a tremendous ego.  It's a big reason that Jimmy Johnson LEFT, because Jerry couldn't control his ego and stop meddling. 

Snyder has finally figured it ou to stay out of the football decisions and just sing the checks...The Redskins will be very good again in a couple years. 

Jones and Davis are old School type owners that think they know better than battle hardened field Generals.  They're fools with big egos. 


Johnson left SPECIFICALLY because Jones wanted to get involved in the decision making process.

Jones had enough leftover parts to win 1 more with Switzer and then the effects of his decisions making killed the team forever.

Jones never built a winner. Johnson built a champion.

The team we smoked at the Dome? That is the team Jones built.

Washington won't be good for years. They have an over the hill roster and lacking in picks. Instead of trying to reload with McNabb, Haynesworth, etc. - they needed to blow it up and start over.

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!
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RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/20/2010 5:52:08 PM   
Prescott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Dallas built a dynasty on the backs of the bungling trade machine that was the Vikings management. Giving away so much for Hershel Walker set the Cowboys up with draft picks and players. Johnson was no more a genius than the next HC, but extremely fortunate to be in a position to coach a team with so many assets.


Some of this is true, but I also think it takes away some of the credit Johnson deservers. He had to convince us to do the trade, and he still had to make the picks count. In fact, I think Jones sat and listened in on Johnson working that trade and saw what he did with it, and came to the same conclusion. That he could just as easily have done the same thing. And he can't. A lot of other teams have stockpiled picks to, and not met with the same success. Yes, we helped him out, but JJ deserves credit for using that opportunity in an awesome way.
Post #: 1152
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/20/2010 6:18:01 PM   
David Jerde


Posts: 1207
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		How did Johnson do in Miami? Good fortune is a big part of the dynasty; having many picks gives you a better chance of making your luck. Plus Jerry Jones allowed him to go out and sign players (no salary cap). Johnson did not do it on his own; he had success for many reasons.


<edit>
Two reasons he (Jones) could not make a similar trade are (1) the Vikings didn't have enough left to make such a ridiculous trade; and (2) there was/is no other brain-trust so single-mindlessly addled as that Vikings group led by Mike Lynn.

< Message edited by David Jerde -- 10/20/2010 6:21:39 PM >
Post #: 1153
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/20/2010 7:07:15 PM   
John Childress


Posts: 42898
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline 		How he did in Miami has no bearing on what he did in Dallas

none

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!
Post #: 1154
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/20/2010 8:18:09 PM   
Prescott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

How did Johnson do in Miami? Good fortune is a big part of the dynasty; having many picks gives you a better chance of making your luck. Plus Jerry Jones allowed him to go out and sign players (no salary cap). Johnson did not do it on his own; he had success for many reasons.


<edit>
Two reasons he (Jones) could not make a similar trade are (1) the Vikings didn't have enough left to make such a ridiculous trade; and (2) there was/is no other brain-trust so single-mindlessly addled as that Vikings group led by Mike Lynn.


But Johnson didn't just get lucky. He was incredibly astute in building a team with those picks, evaluating talent, etc. He built one of the greatest lines in history, a great defense, and then Hall of Fame skill players. I hate the Cowboys and it kills me to give him credit, but he built a dynasty. And it's not the first or last time someone makes a huge trade like that. I believe that Ricky Williams was dealt for an entire draft.

The reason that Jones couldn't make similar moves, is because he sucks.
Post #: 1155
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/20/2010 8:39:34 PM   
thebigo


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Jones didn't win 3 SBs by meddling. Jimmy Johnson built tha entire team. It was when Jones started meddling the team started losing.


You're saying Jones wasn't involved in the decision making process?  He has a tremendous ego.  It's a big reason that Jimmy Johnson LEFT, because Jerry couldn't control his ego and stop meddling. 

Snyder has finally figured it ou to stay out of the football decisions and just sing the checks...The Redskins will be very good again in a couple years. 

Jones and Davis are old School type owners that think they know better than battle hardened field Generals.  They're fools with big egos. 


Snyder didn't have a hand in football decisions for Joe Gibbs Act II.
Post #: 1156
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 9:36:11 AM   
David Jerde


Posts: 1207
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		You are correct; the Saints traded their entire 1999 draft plus two choices from the next year for Ricky Williams. To Washington. Which went on to the playoffs in 1990 - 1992, winning the SB in 1991. Is it the brilliance of Joe Gibbs alone, or the fact that Washington had a bevy of draft choices with which to work?

Johnson lucked into the opportunity to trade Walker for the world, primarily because the Vikings had such a dominant defense and thought that this one RB could put their offense over the top and push them to a SB victory. At the time, I couldn't believe that Walker was the only piece that the Vikings were to receive; I assumed that there was a QB waiting in the wings who, combined with Hersel, would be able to put the Vikings over the top.

If it wasn't at least partially luck, Johnson should have been able to do much more at Miami - with Dan Marino at the helm of the offense. Instead, their franchise languished. So your argument is that Johnson was a genius at Dallas, building a dynasty, but a trip 1,000 miles SE rendered him a mere mortal.
Post #: 1157
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 10:26:19 AM   
John Childress


Posts: 42898
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline 		The argument has strayed away from the original point becuse someone lost the point!

The argument is not what did JJ do in Miami - the argument is who was the architect of the Dallas 90s dynasty. Anyone with football knowledge will tell you that team was all Jim Johnson built.

Johnson took so much credit Jones felt slighted and forced him out. Jones took over operations and we have seen the result.

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!
Post #: 1158
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 11:04:43 AM   
David Jerde


Posts: 1207
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The result of him not having players, no salary cap, an owner willing to shell out the $s, excess draft picks. Yes, Johnson was singlehandedly responsible for creating the Dallas dynasty.

The argument didn't get lost, your thesis is just wrong.

<edit>
LOL -- anyone with football knowledge

< Message edited by David Jerde -- 10/21/2010 11:06:31 AM >
Post #: 1159
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 11:14:31 AM   
Prescott


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Joined: 10/3/2010
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quote:

the Saints traded their entire 1999 draft plus two choices from the next year for Ricky Williams. To Washington. Which went on to the playoffs in 1990 - 1992, winning the SB in 1991.


I'm confuzzled
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RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 11:42:07 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

the Saints traded their entire 1999 draft plus two choices from the next year for Ricky Williams.



To Washington. Which went on to the playoffs in 1990 - 1992, winning the SB in 1991.


I'm confuzzled


This might help. 

He was shifting his discussion to Washington.  At least that's the way it sounds to me.

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Post #: 1161
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 11:48:13 AM   
Prescott


Posts: 15395
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

the Saints traded their entire 1999 draft plus two choices from the next year for Ricky Williams.



To Washington. Which went on to the playoffs in 1990 - 1992, winning the SB in 1991.


I'm confuzzled


This might help. 

He was shifting his discussion to Washington.  At least that's the way it sounds to me.


Not really helping me get unconfuzzled.

I think it's the idea of trading for Ricky Williams and then going on to, um... win the SB... 8 years, uh, earlier?

I'm sure I'll get it if I think about it, but I confess I got a little lost for now.
Post #: 1162
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 11:49:37 AM   
Lynn G.


Posts: 33037
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: online 		That's the glory of a forum Prescott. You don't HAVE to understand all of the posts. You see something that doesn't make any sense - you skip it!

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Post #: 1163
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 12:00:06 PM   
Prescott


Posts: 15395
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline 		LOL true. But! I kind of WANT to get this one, it sounds interesting!!! Joe Gibbs using the draft picks that Norv Turner and Snyder got for Ricky Williams in 1999, to build his SB team in 1991 is an awesome concept. Back to the futurish =)
Post #: 1164
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/21/2010 12:48:42 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19459
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		Well he IS considered a genius.  Although the runnign joke in DC (I lived there during his 2nd time) was that they were out of timeouts on Thursday for the upcoming Sunday game.
Post #: 1165
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/23/2010 12:30:21 PM   
Duane Sampson


Posts: 14200
Status: offline 		Broke my long standing rule of never betting loser wears the enemy colors all day at work. Made that bet with a cheesehead. I swore I'd lose money or even wipe flaming snot on my face before I'd wear anything Packers or Bears.

Too late, I made the bet. Go Vikes or Childress is going on my hate list.

Oh... too late for that too.
Post #: 1166
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/23/2010 12:40:42 PM   
Guest
 Dude....



i dont even own ANYTHING packer green...

I have a feeling you are gonna regret this..

hope I'm wrong..

But it is childress coaching not to lose...

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I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.
  Post #: 1167
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 10:05:20 AM   
Duane Sampson


Posts: 14200
Status: offline 		Let's not get crazy, Danno. They supply the cheese shit, not me. 

They are going to be wearing my Tark jersey all day if we somehow win.....
Post #: 1168
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 10:42:25 AM   
Duane Sampson


Posts: 14200
Status: offline 		17-14 Vikes.

Defense scores twice for us. Big night for Allen and Greenway.
Post #: 1169
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 11:53:44 AM   
John Childress


Posts: 42898
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline 		Vikings 23
Packers 17

_____________________________

No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!
Post #: 1170
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 4:14:05 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Two poor head coaches, I should really just go with the home team.

I think the refs could go either way. They COULD help GB because more money is probably bet on the more healthy Vikes, but sometimes the powers that be like the team with a worse record to tighten things up and bring about parity.

I thought it was interesting on Mike McCarthy's show last night, he talked about Woodson getting flagged so much, and how he just can't catch a break. How about just asking him to play by the rules, you know like not holding WRs, bumping them or fouling them BEFORE the ball gets there, things like that ???

I expect much of the same from the Vikes, although I think Favre will target Moss more. That SHOULD be a good thing, unless you end up getting a pick 6 the other way. I expect the Vikes to fumble plenty, especially if things are wet. I expect the Pack to bring MORE heat than last year, and I expect the Vikes will NOT have screens down, so Favre will get sacked and probably turn the ball over.

I think Rodgers will play the game of his life, and the Packers will edge the Vikes. I really do think the Pack are outmanned in this, and it WILL take quite a game by Rodgers for them to win it, but I think the Vikes will help by self destructing. I think Rodgers will pick up several key 3rd downs by RUNNING the ball.

As I'm typing this, I want to switch to the Vikings, as I can see Favre still being motivated to beat Ted Thompson. But I think Rodgers is also motivated to get out of the Favre shadow, and to show he can win a close game in the clutch, which he has NOT done for the most part.

Packers 27
Vikes 24
Post #: 1171
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 4:50:05 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
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Status: offline 		It looks like the league has developed a bit of a book on Rogers.
Post #: 1172
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 6:31:20 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		We'll see if Frazier has read that book.
Post #: 1173
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 11:11:49 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Final score: Pack 28 Vikes 24 - My prediction was Pack 27 Vikes 24, just missed the final by ONE point - not bad, unfortunately.

NE will beat Minnesota next week, maybe handily. The Vikes going on the road against a good coach, it could be a lopsided loss, unless Moss and Peterson and Harvin play their hearts out to make it a close game. Either way, I CANNOT see a Vikings' win at NE.

Here's the storyline for next week:

The Vikes gained talent with Moss, but you can see (as the Vikes are down by 10 or more) the Patriots are more of a team WITHOUT Moss, he was just a distraction. Branch brings the deep threat, but is obviously more of a team player, making NE the better TEAM.



Never mind that NE has a good HC, while the Vikings do NOT, and that NE probably has a better OC.

< Message edited by marty -- 10/24/2010 11:14:19 PM >
Post #: 1174
RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) - 10/24/2010 11:36:10 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Final score: Pack 28 Vikes 24 - My prediction was Pack 27 Vikes 24, just missed the final by ONE point - not bad, unfortunately.

NE will beat Minnesota next week, maybe handily. The Vikes going on the road against a good coach, it could be a lopsided loss, unless Moss and Peterson and Harvin play their hearts out to make it a close game. Either way, I CANNOT see a Vikings' win at NE.

Here's the storyline for next week:

The Vikes gained talent with Moss, but you can see (as the Vikes are down by 10 or more) the Patriots are more of a team WITHOUT Moss, he was just a distraction. Branch brings the deep threat, but is obviously more of a team player, making NE the better TEAM.



Never mind that NE has a good HC, while the Vikings do NOT, and that NE probably has a better OC.


I'd vomit too, if somehow those words were typed by my fingers.

< Message edited by thebigo -- 10/24/2010 11:37:28 PM >
Post #: 1175
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