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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 2:17:54 PM

Mr. Ed

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

I could actually get behind this hire. I'm one of those fans that would prefer a big-time assistant at a blue-blood program to a mid-major head coach (if you're content with risk, why not go all in?). Perhaps Monson has just scarred me. And Stephens' deep B1G roots and preexisting relationship with Tyus and Reid Travis suggest he could be a fit here.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/201095111.html

I'd go with that as well.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 2:19:06 PM

Pete M.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I can't say that I would hate that move. Stephens may Izzo's top recruiter and last year was promoted to associate head coach. The right hand man in a pretty elite program may be the way to go.

Before we get carried away, let's be clear: according to Rayno, Izzo is only confirming that Stephens is involved in a coach search. He wouldn't say with whom.

Right -- he could be talking about a mid-major job or something. But in terms of the high-major jobs, it's pretty much New Mexico and Minnesota. And given Stephens' Villa 7 roots and strong Midwest ties, I have to imagine Minnesota's the more realistic fit.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 2:22:40 PM

TJSweens

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The perception of swings and misses in the media would not be nearly as bad as the fall out from looking for a new head coach while Tubby was still the coach. Tubby is still highly regarded among coaches and a move as classless as that would turn away more good prospective candidates than anything else I can imagine. The media is going to swarm all over the story like flies on sherbet when a major university looks for a coach. Its part of the game.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 4/2/2013 2:23:43 PM >

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 2:29:35 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

What part of the search -- of which we have little detail beyond rumors -- don't you like?

I think he's done a pretty NoGood job of managing the PR and the search in general. The national perception that "Minnesota is swinging and missing on everybody" is inarguably bad for the program. And although NoGood wasn't the source of those rumors, he created the fertile ground for them given the quick trigger on Tubby. Why not hold your powder dry for a couple of days on Tubby, do some behind-the-scenes checking on Shaka/Hoiberg, and then go public? Then, if Shaka and Hoiberg already have extensions, the public expectation starts at a manageable level.

I admit to be picking nits to some extent, at least if and until we get more substantial background information. But it appears that NoGood (a) had an inflated sense of the type of candidate he realistically could entice; and (b) the Minnesota program has taken a PR hit -- both nationally and locally -- from the search to this point.

So if he isn't the source, but the rumors are stil getting out, don't you think him "snooping around" other coaches while Tubby is still employed would leak as well? And wouldn't that make him look even worse?

Maybe. But maybe not given that a full-on coaching search magnifies the media interest about tenfold.

Is it worth the risk? All it takes is 1 rumor to come out and then the media would absolutely pounce on the story.

Post #: 3379

RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 2:33:12 PM

Pete M.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

The perception of swings and misses in the media would not be nearly as bad as the fall out from looking for a new head coach while Tubby was still the coach. Tubby is still highly regarded among coaches and a move as classless as that would turn away more good prospective candidates than anything else I can imagine. The media is going to swarm all over the story like flies on sherbet when a major university looks for a coach. Its part of the game.

I refuse to believe that ADs never sniff around potential replacements while they're still employing a head coach -- conversations along the lines of, "Would you be interested if...?" And yes, if between AD and agent or AD and coach, that conversation wouldn't get leaked. Do you not think this kind of thing happens, Sweens? I'd be beyond shocked if NoGood hadn't had a conversation or two along those lines with Shaka before he fired Tubby.

Which leads me to believe either (a) NoGood thought he had someone lined up (or at least very interested) and the target got cold feet, or (b) NoGood had an inflated sense of the kind of candidate he could attract.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 2:35:53 PM

Pete M.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Is it worth the risk? All it takes is 1 rumor to come out and then the media would absolutely pounce on the story.

See my post above. This kind of informal stuff happens -- at least, I suspect -- all the time. I think it's the difference between a discreet phone call and a more aggressive pursuit (something I believe NoGood attempted with at least Shaka and Hoiberg).

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 2:59:38 PM

TJSweens

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I don't think this thing goes on nearly as much as you seem to think. There are certain codes that are followed. AD's are required to get permission from other ADs before talking to head coaches. That is why Maturi got blasted so bad during the football coach search. He was using the search firm to do end runs around the AD to talk to prospective coaches.

For another thing it tarnishes your reputation among coaching candidates. "Wow did you see the level of disrespect he showed Tubby?" Coaches don't want to work for you when you pull that shit.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 4/2/2013 3:01:32 PM >

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:00:00 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

I could actually get behind this hire. I'm one of those fans that would prefer a big-time assistant at a blue-blood program to a mid-major head coach (if you're content with risk, why not go all in?). Perhaps Monson has just scarred me. And Stephens' deep B1G roots and preexisting relationship with Tyus and Reid Travis suggest he could be a fit here.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/201095111.html

I'd go with that as well.

3rded.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:03:58 PM

Dave E

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave E

What part of the search -- of which we have little detail beyond rumors -- don't you like?

I think he's done a pretty NoGood job of managing the PR and the search in general. The national perception that "Minnesota is swinging and missing on everybody" is inarguably bad for the program. And although NoGood wasn't the source of those rumors, he created the fertile ground for them given the quick trigger on Tubby. Why not hold your powder dry for a couple of days on Tubby, do some behind-the-scenes checking on Shaka/Hoiberg, and then go public? Then, if Shaka and Hoiberg already have extensions, the public expectation starts at a manageable level.

I admit to be picking nits to some extent, at least if and until we get more substantial background information. But it appears that NoGood (a) had an inflated sense of the type of candidate he realistically could entice; and (b) the Minnesota program has taken a PR hit -- both nationally and locally -- from the search to this point.

I'd agree those are nits.

I'm not sure at all that (a) is correct. You don't go calling the Izzos and Coach Ks of the world, obviously, but any responsible AD would reach out the Smarts/Stevens/Hoibergs to take their temp -- which appears to be exactly what Teague did. Not sure (b) is correct on a national level, either. Certainly on a local level, but that appears to be because local fans and media have wildly unrealistic expectations of what a coaching search would look like. Plus, I don't think you can reach a conclusion on (b) until a coach is hired. If the choice is perceived to be a sound hire, then whatever PR "hits" that occurred over the past week disappear.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:06:53 PM

Dave E

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I don't think this thing goes on nearly as much as you seem to think. There are certain codes that are followed. AD's are required to get permission from other ADs before talking to head coaches. That is why Maturi got blasted so bad during the football coach search. He was using the search firm to do end runs around the AD to talk to prospective coaches.

For another thing it tarnishes your reputation among coaching candidates. "Wow did you see the level of disrespect he showed Tubby?" Coaches don't want to work for you when you pull that shit.

Exactly. The only people Teague is trying to impress at the moment are potential candidates. I rather have him have his eyes on impressing them as opposed to the media (or us, for that matter).

Moreover, the tidbits we're getting here and there from potential coaches is that they like Teague (see Hoiberg, Fred).

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:07:55 PM

Dave E

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

I could actually get behind this hire. I'm one of those fans that would prefer a big-time assistant at a blue-blood program to a mid-major head coach (if you're content with risk, why not go all in?). Perhaps Monson has just scarred me. And Stephens' deep B1G roots and preexisting relationship with Tyus and Reid Travis suggest he could be a fit here.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/201095111.html

I'd go with that as well.

3rded.

Definitely could do much worse. Decent calculated gamble.

Post #: 3386

RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:34:14 PM

Mr. Ed

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How does this guy still have a job?

http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/04/02/rutgers-coach-mike-rice-physically-and-verbally-assaulting-his-players-video/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:48:41 PM

Jim Frenette

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Harvard is a hell of a team and Amaker is a hell of a coach (better than Enfield by far IMO). That was not a big shocker to me at all. And shouldn't have been to many others despite the seeding.

Again, not saying Alford is great or going to do wonders at UCLA. But I think there's no reason to bitch at all on "missing out" on Enfield. He'll be lucky to ever make a Sweet 16 again IMO.

Amaker ran Mich to bottom of Big 10 while he was there. Winning at Harvard can't be hard as most Ivy schools are mediocre

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:55:11 PM

Jim Frenette

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I can't say that I would hate that move. Stephens may Izzo's top recruiter and last year was promoted to associate head coach. The right hand man in a pretty elite program may be the way to go.

Before we get carried away, let's be clear: according to Rayno, Izzo is only confirming that Stephens is involved in a coach search. He wouldn't say with whom.

Right -- he could be talking about a mid-major job or something. But in terms of the high-major jobs, it's pretty much New Mexico and Minnesota. And given Stephens' Villa 7 roots and strong Midwest ties, I have to imagine Minnesota's the more realistic fit.

While reading about Stevens as good recruiter with no HC experience can't help me from thinking about Tim Brewster. Ugh

Now Hoiberg had no coaching experience or recruiting and he has found success

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 3:57:22 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Harvard is a hell of a team and Amaker is a hell of a coach (better than Enfield by far IMO). That was not a big shocker to me at all. And shouldn't have been to many others despite the seeding.

Again, not saying Alford is great or going to do wonders at UCLA. But I think there's no reason to bitch at all on "missing out" on Enfield. He'll be lucky to ever make a Sweet 16 again IMO.

Amaker ran Mich to bottom of Big 10 while he was there. Winning at Harvard can't be hard as most Ivy schools are mediocre

Agreed Jim. If Amaker was really that good, he wouldn't be coaching at Harvard at this point in his career.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:01:51 PM

Pete M.

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http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/56834/you-smell-like-desperation-losers-of-the-college-basketball-coaching-carousel

Gophers rated #1 of the losers of the coaching carousel to this point.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:02:53 PM

Pete M.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I don't think this thing goes on nearly as much as you seem to think. There are certain codes that are followed. AD's are required to get permission from other ADs before talking to head coaches. That is why Maturi got blasted so bad during the football coach search. He was using the search firm to do end runs around the AD to talk to prospective coaches.

For another thing it tarnishes your reputation among coaching candidates. "Wow did you see the level of disrespect he showed Tubby?" Coaches don't want to work for you when you pull that shit.

Is this true? I saw a quote, or a paraphrase, from an AD recently saying essentially, "When I hear about it, the deal is already done."

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:06:57 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I can't say that I would hate that move. Stephens may Izzo's top recruiter and last year was promoted to associate head coach. The right hand man in a pretty elite program may be the way to go.

Before we get carried away, let's be clear: according to Rayno, Izzo is only confirming that Stephens is involved in a coach search. He wouldn't say with whom.

Right -- he could be talking about a mid-major job or something. But in terms of the high-major jobs, it's pretty much New Mexico and Minnesota. And given Stephens' Villa 7 roots and strong Midwest ties, I have to imagine Minnesota's the more realistic fit.

While reading about Stevens as good recruiter with no HC experience can't help me from thinking about Tim Brewster. Ugh

Now Hoiberg had no coaching experience or recruiting and he has found success

I can see your point Jim. Just like Dustin saying Enfield could basically be another Monson.
Here is where Stephens' background is very different than Basement Brew's. Brewster was never more than a position coach before Maturi hired him. Stephens started out as assistant under Crean at Marquette and then moved to Izzo's staff at MSU. He worked his way up to Izzo's right hand man and was named Associate Head Coach. He has paid a lot more dues as an assistant. His background beats the hell out of being Mike Shanahan's TE coach.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:08:35 PM

Pete M.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

How does this guy still have a job?

http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/04/02/rutgers-coach-mike-rice-physically-and-verbally-assaulting-his-players-video/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

The physical abuse absolutely crosses the line and is completely unacceptable. The verbal abuse seems like a little more of a gray area. I personally witnessed Coach K cussing out players with abandon in practice. Coach G (women's coach) did the exact same thing. A rumor I heard from a close friend was that Luol Deng (same year as me) walked out of practice after K told him he could "take his big black ass back to Africa." I think this kind of "motivation" goes on a whole lot more than we'd like to admit.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:11:09 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Harvard is a hell of a team and Amaker is a hell of a coach (better than Enfield by far IMO). That was not a big shocker to me at all. And shouldn't have been to many others despite the seeding.

Again, not saying Alford is great or going to do wonders at UCLA. But I think there's no reason to bitch at all on "missing out" on Enfield. He'll be lucky to ever make a Sweet 16 again IMO.

Amaker ran Mich to bottom of Big 10 while he was there. Winning at Harvard can't be hard as most Ivy schools are mediocre

Agreed Jim. If Amaker was really that good, he wouldn't be coaching at Harvard at this point in his career.

Or he wants to build something at someplace. Which is more likely. Lots of coaches "fail" in their first go-round. He's starting to pull in good recruits at Harvard too.

Again, not that big of an upset if you've followed Harvard the last couple years. Despite the seeds. Amaker can outcoach the hell out of Enfield IMO.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:13:00 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

How does this guy still have a job?

http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/04/02/rutgers-coach-mike-rice-physically-and-verbally-assaulting-his-players-video/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

The physical abuse absolutely crosses the line and is completely unacceptable. The verbal abuse seems like a little more of a gray area. I personally witnessed Coach K cussing out players with abandon in practice. Coach G (women's coach) did the exact same thing. A rumor I heard from a close friend was that Luol Deng (same year as me) walked out of practice after K told him he could "take his big black ass back to Africa." I think this kind of "motivation" goes on a whole lot more than we'd like to admit.

Agreed. As a friend of mine always says about KSU coach Frank Martin: "You just know he beats his players".

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:15:56 PM

Pete M.

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From ESPN1500:

But according to a source close to the search, one of the main hang-ups between Saunders and the University came when athletic director Norwood Teague told Saunders to choose from a list of several assistant coaches from the Villa 7 coaching program, which Teague and senior associate AD Mike Ellis helped oversee at VCU.

It's unknown where Saunders ranked on the university's original list of candidates to replace Tubby, but Saunders is said to have been very interested from the start. Conversations between the two sides were so productive last week that people behind the scenes were preparing for an introductory press conference to take place on Monday.

Saunders told people behind the scenes he believes, if hired, he could help raise a lot of money for a new practice facility -- upwards of $15-20 million -- before next basketball season.

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Still_plenty_of_possibilities_for_Gophers_in_search_for_hoops_coach040213

If true, I still think that's a ridiculous way to handle a veteran coach.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:16:18 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I don't think this thing goes on nearly as much as you seem to think. There are certain codes that are followed. AD's are required to get permission from other ADs before talking to head coaches. That is why Maturi got blasted so bad during the football coach search. He was using the search firm to do end runs around the AD to talk to prospective coaches.

For another thing it tarnishes your reputation among coaching candidates. "Wow did you see the level of disrespect he showed Tubby?" Coaches don't want to work for you when you pull that shit.

Is this true? I saw a quote, or a paraphrase, from an AD recently saying essentially, "When I hear about it, the deal is already done."

Oh sure. Back channel communications go on. My people talk to your people, before I make the official request to talk to you, but this goes on after the old coach has been let go. Coaches can be a pretty tight knit community. As much as Shaka and Teague have a good friendship, it could be altered by Teague putting him in the awkward position of talking to him while he knows Tubby is in the dark about his future. Especially if he crosses paths with Tubby in the future.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:17:27 PM

SoMnFan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

How does this guy still have a job?

http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/04/02/rutgers-coach-mike-rice-physically-and-verbally-assaulting-his-players-video/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

The physical abuse absolutely crosses the line and is completely unacceptable. The verbal abuse seems like a little more of a gray area. I personally witnessed Coach K cussing out players with abandon in practice. Coach G (women's coach) did the exact same thing. A rumor I heard from a close friend was that Luol Deng (same year as me) walked out of practice after K told him he could "take his big black ass back to Africa." I think this kind of "motivation" goes on a whole lot more than we'd like to admit.

Agreed. As a friend of mine always says about KSU coach Frank Martin: "You just know he beats his players".

Touchy subject
The public pressure to win drives some of these guys nuts.
The only way this changes, is the day one of their players says enough is enough, and pounds the old man who thinks he's God into a grease spot.
I just hope the right people then back the kid, and not the abuser.
College is a different animal.
The fear of losing a scholarship that a family, hell, a whole community ... helped you attain ... beats kids into thinking they have to take ABUSE. I don't agree.
Coaching staffs haave to be constructed properly at every level.
you have to have good cops and bad cops, and when the bad cops cross the line, the good cops have to protect everyone, kid first, program second.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 4/2/2013 4:17:29 PM

djskillz

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I can't agree Tim. These search committees know everything about coaches long before it gets to the point of "talking to" or hiring IMO.

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